The problem of evil

[puto]

Whatever God prohibits,

wrote bahman. Not really knowing how to answer prohibited used in the subjunctive mood, of the word defined. "You should stop," dĕsinis. A more verbal meaning of the verb cease, would be the infinitive, it completes the meaning of the verb.

[puto]

Having, completed a Power Point Presentation of the Problem of Evil. Do you understand evil? What it is and is not? I can explain it to a two year old, so that means I understand it, but too explain it to a person who already has assumptions of it, then I cannot.

[Dontaskme]

Why do we suffer for the sins of others (Adam and Eve)?

Every sentient creature with a nervous system will suffer the effects of pain, by naturally repelling it via the automatic reflexive response systems already programmed into the body as a means to protect itself in the effort to survive. These pains will either be caused by natural causes or intentional and deliberate causes. This is an unavoidable consequence of being a conscious feeling entity.

Now, what has 'evil' got to do with any of this? well the word ''evil'' is just a man-made concept. Then there's that stupid man-made story that goes something like... Eve disobeyed an experiement she played upon herself, by deliberately using it to see if the experiment would force her to go against her own will that she deliberately set-up as some form of self-obedience training. She had to force herself to participate in the experiment, since she was the only one who came up with the idea in the first place, so she had no other choice but to follow it through to it's conclusion, because she wanted to discover what it would be like to be a curious creature, to see what happens when you are naturally curious about your world. Anyways, as the story goes..she set about being curious, otherwise she would never have had any reason to set-up the experiment in the first place. So had she not bothered to force herself to go through with it, there wouldn't have been any point in the experiment at all.

So as the silly story goes, it was Eve alone who should have bared all the responsibilty for the sin she caused, just for being a naturally curious feeling sentient creature. But no, Eve, who was really Adam, who was really God, then imposed that sin on every other living human person that ever came into existence forever after...which was a very silly thing to do, to blame everyone else, for something she did.

Thankfully, it's just some dumb fable that made no more sense than cinderella having a biological father.

But here we are, in the so called evolved era that is 2022 where there remain tiny pockets of very gullible adult children who are still spreading the great big stupid myth around as if it was the gospel absolute truth...just because that's what the bible wanted us all to believe. Yeah, ok.

[bahman]

If God is Omniscient then He knows what is the right combination of atoms to make a human. He has to know this otherwise He could not make humans through the process we call evolution.

Right.

And it is through the process of evolution on this planet that bodies and, especially, brains are created. And it is the special way that atoms are arranged in the brain that allows God to bring-forth and awaken a new mind/soul into existence.

Cool.

If God is omnipotent then He can create atoms in the proper place to make a human. He can do this since this is possible through a random process we call evolution.

You just suggested in the quote prior to this one that God makes humans through the process of evolution. Now, all of a sudden, evolution is a "random process"?

Try to keep track of how your statements are contradicting each other.

The process of evolution is random if you didn't know. I am telling that instead of a random process God could create humans directly since both are processes, one random and one direct.

He could in fact create humans in Heaven.

It's not that I cannot be wrong, but, again, bahman, no.

Try to get it into your thick skull that God requires an actual physiological process (i.e., a physical brain) by which to awaken a new mind/soul into existence.

I'm talking about a new mind/soul that is just like God's mind/soul, but momentarily exists in a "semi-conscious" (not yet fully-born/embryonic) state of being.

And it is through the process of death that this new mind/soul is birthed (delivered/fully-born) out of this universe (God's "cosmic womb") and into "true reality" where it then awakens into "full-consciousness" and into the same form as God...



A couple of the Biblical quotes in the illustration read as follows...

"...I shall change your vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto my glorious body, according to the working whereby I am able even to subdue all things unto myself..."

"...it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is..."

All of which implies that...

We and God are of the same species of being.

The point is that, no, God doesn't want to create "humans" in Heaven, she wants to conceive and give birth to her own literal offspring here on earth; offspring who can then join her in Heaven ("true reality") as her equals. I'm talking about equals who are each imbued with the same abilities as God herself.

Like I keep suggesting, our ultimate form and eternal destiny is so amazing and so wonderful that it must be kept hidden from us until death so that we are not tempted to seek it out prematurely.

How does God change our vile bodies into glorious bodies? Does it require another process or God just does it in an instant?

God isn't forcing humans to eat meat. Nor is God slitting the cow's throat or sledgehammering the pig in the above images. In which case, it would seem that the majority of evil experienced by certain animals is caused by humans, and not God.

The point is that if you are concerned about what the lion does to the gazelle in order to feed itself and its cubs, then if you eat meat, you are a hypocrite who could instantly help reduce a tiny bit of (unnecessary) evil on earth by never eating meat again.

Are you willing to do that?

I eat all sorts of foods with respect. I thanks all sort of food for dying for me.

Then you are an active and willing contributor to the evil that certain animals must endure.

So, stop blaming God for their suffering when, in truth, you are to blame.
_______

As I mentioned evil is unavoiable sometimes. Moreover, killing an animal in hands of a human is much different from being eaten alive!

[bahman]

Whatever God prohibits,

wrote bahman. Not really knowing how to answer prohibited used in the subjunctive mood, of the word defined. "You should stop," dĕsinis. A more verbal meaning of the verb cease, would be the infinitive, it completes the meaning of the verb.

What do you mean by dĕsinis? I don't understand the rest of your comment too.

[bahman]

Having, completed a Power Point Presentation of the Problem of Evil. Do you understand evil? What it is and is not? I can explain it to a two year old, so that means I understand it, but too explain it to a person who already has assumptions of it, then I cannot.

To me, good and evil are about like and dislike.

[bahman]

To me, evil is as fundamental as good. It is necessary sometimes. Sometimes you cannot avoid it.

Like for example WHEN?

I eat all sorts of foods with respect.

So, as long as you are doing 'evil' things, with 'respect', then this is all right, correct?

I thanks all sort of food for dying for me.

So, you CAUSE the animal to be KILLED, and then you thank that animal for your 'evil' doing?

Sounds rather CONTRADICTORY and very HYPOCRITICAL, well to me anyway.

WHY do you just NOT do the Wrong in the first place?

What do you eat? Isn't what you eat alive?

[Age]

To me, evil is as fundamental as good. It is necessary sometimes. Sometimes you cannot avoid it.

Like for example WHEN?

I eat all sorts of foods with respect.

So, as long as you are doing 'evil' things, with 'respect', then this is all right, correct?

I thanks all sort of food for dying for me.

So, you CAUSE the animal to be KILLED, and then you thank that animal for your 'evil' doing?

Sounds rather CONTRADICTORY and very HYPOCRITICAL, well to me anyway.

WHY do you just NOT do the Wrong in the first place?

What do you eat? Isn't what you eat alive?

KILLING ANIMALS is NOT needed to stay alive.

EATING NUTRIENTS is however.

[seeds]

How does God change our vile bodies into glorious bodies? Does it require another process or God just does it in an instant?

The Biblical quote where it talks about the changing of our "vile body" (i.e., our material body) into that which is like God's "glorious body," is simply a part of the archaic language that the writers used at the time to describe the process that will automatically take place as our mind (soul/consciousness) is born-out of our (vile) body via the process that we call death.

In other words, it's already a done deal, in that we are already in possession of a "glorious body" (like that of God's body) that will be revealed to us at the moment of death.

You should be able to understand how "natural" and "organic" this concept is, simply by viewing the metaphorical illustration I supplied in my prior post.

God isn't forcing humans to eat meat. Nor is God slitting the cow's throat or sledgehammering the pig in the above images. In which case, it would seem that the majority of evil experienced by certain animals is caused by humans, and not God.

The point is that if you are concerned about what the lion does to the gazelle in order to feed itself and its cubs, then if you eat meat, you are a hypocrite who could instantly help reduce a tiny bit of (unnecessary) evil on earth by never eating meat again.

Are you willing to do that?

I eat all sorts of foods with respect. I thanks all sort of food for dying for me.

Then you are an active and willing contributor to the evil that certain animals must endure.

So, stop blaming God for their suffering when, in truth, you are to blame.
_______

As I mentioned evil is unavoiable sometimes.

Not in the case of you eating meat, which is totally avoidable.

Moreover, killing an animal in hands of a human is much different from being eaten alive!

Right. The alleged fifth most intelligent animal in the world being trapped in the living hell of a factory farm for approximately six to ten months...



...before having their throats slit or being sledgehammered by a human is, indeed, "much different" (as in vastly worse) than the few fleeting seconds of misery that the random prey of a lion must endure.

Nice try!
_______

[Gary Childress]

I create this thread in order to discuss the problem of evil with Immanuel Can. Others also are welcome to participate.

The discussion can be divided into three parts: 1) Origin of Evil, 2) Deception of Eve and her punishment, and 3) Natural Evil.

1) Origin of Evil: We all read the story of fall. What is missing in this story is however finding the origin of evil. The question is if God is good and His creation is good then where did evil originally come from?
2) Deception of Eve and her punishment: Why did God punish a naive person who was deceived?
3) Natural Evil: Why do we suffer for the sins of others (Adam and Eve)?

the rest of the story tells you if you read it.

God is not only the Creator but also the Judge therefore the Judge of what is good or evil for His creation and the creatures therein, no exceptions.

So God creates situation in which a person can commit evil so he can judge him? If yes, isn't God the origin of evil?

what happened in the garden is Eve made a judgment contrary to God's Judgement and Adam followed.

Eve was naive and was deceived. There was the problem of temptation too, the fruit looked tempting. She has to fight the temptation forever. We all know that it is impossible to ignore a temptation forever.

therefore man now goes by his own judgement of good and evil, but again man's judgement results in death, because God's Judgement is Life so any other judgement wouldn't not be life.


also there is the concept of morals here do to the commandment God spoke to Adam was a covenant, or a agreement. Adam can hang in the garden and live the life Adam received from God, as long as no eat from TOK. note there's no protest on Adam's part mentioned. Adam wasn't made in the garden, Adam was made, then put in the garden.

hence the agreement God made with Adam, and was merciful to let A&E to live the life in and of the flesh as animals do, and they lost the Life (for the record) Jesus, the Son of God, restored to the faithful.

so the reason why for all this is Adam was to be a son of God, possessing God's place in the earth, earth being God's footstool. and in that place they were to execute God's Judgements in the earth.

so the sin in this case is really separation from God's Presence, or the state of it, and that life A&E were left with you have received when you were born into the world, hence the term original sin.

Why we are kept in such a state? We don't keep people responsible for the fault of others.

QED. Nothing else needs to be debated concerning God. If the Bible is true, then God is the most wicked, vile creature in the universe. He wants us to put him before everything else in this world, including our own children, yet gives us nothing in return. People run around killing each other in his name. What more needs to be said to convince the God botherers that either there is no God or that God is pretty darn sadistic.

It gets tiring debating morons who will defend their evil God. As far as I'm concerned Christians are little different than worshipers of a satanic cult. And yet they have the audacity to call other religions evil, heretical or misguided. Fucking morons ad infinitum.

[Dontaskme]

QED. Nothing else needs to be debated concerning God. If the Bible is true, then God is the most wicked, vile creature in the universe. He wants us to put him before everything else in this world, including our own children, yet gives us nothing in return. People run around killing each other in his name. What more needs to be said to convince the God botherers that either there is no God or that God is pretty darn sadistic.

It gets tiring debating morons who will defend their evil God. As far as I'm concerned Christians are little different than worshipers of a satanic cult. And yet they have the audacity to call other religions evil, heretical or misguided. Fucking morons ad infinitum.

Worshipping the bloody human sacrifice by means of barbaric torturing of your own flesh and blood.. and living only for that ultimate sacrifice as a means to salvation, is a sick cult mentality, akin to satanic worship. It's like saying.. do not be your body, you must give up your body, if you are to become one with the eternal spirit.

It's totally insane, as if there was some floating ethereal other reality existing separate from the material body, where one can permanently reside in perfect bliss and harmony forever and ever... It's utter nonsense. It's the mentality of someone who was traumatized as a child by adults, forcing them to substitute the failings of the ones they thought they could trust, namely, their mother and father figures... who failed to love them unconditionally...so they made up a God in heaven.

All because humans cannot handle the truth of their being, that they are just another animal.

The human bloody sacrifice must take place in order to secure your own salvation, is the belief the Christian Bible subscribes to. Human bloody violent scarifice, or no heaven, or love for you, is a tryranny of the first order, either you are with us or against us. Yup, it's a pretty sick mentality...typically human though. Only a human can come up with an idea like that.

More and more people on this forum are ignoring the posts I make, because they know I tell the truth, and most people hate the truth, they cannot handle it.
.

[Gary Childress]

QED. Nothing else needs to be debated concerning God. If the Bible is true, then God is the most wicked, vile creature in the universe. He wants us to put him before everything else in this world, including our own children, yet gives us nothing in return. People run around killing each other in his name. What more needs to be said to convince the God botherers that either there is no God or that God is pretty darn sadistic.

It gets tiring debating morons who will defend their evil God. As far as I'm concerned Christians are little different than worshipers of a satanic cult. And yet they have the audacity to call other religions evil, heretical or misguided. Fucking morons ad infinitum.

Worshipping the bloody human sacrifice by means of barbaric torturing of your own flesh and blood.. and living only for that ultimate sacrifice as a means to salvation, is a sick cult mentality, akin to satanic worship. It's like saying.. do not be your body, you must give up your body, if you are to become one with the eternal spirit.

It's totally insane, as if there was some floating ethereal other reality existing separate from the material body, where one can permanently reside in perfect bliss and harmony forever and ever... It's utter nonsense. It's the mentality of someone who was traumatized as a child by adults, forcing them to substitute the failings of the ones they thought they could trust, namely, their mother and father figures... who failed to love them unconditionally...so they made up a God in heaven.

All because humans cannot handle the truth of their being, that they are just another animal.

The human bloody sacrifice must take place in order to secure your own salvation, is the belief the Christian Bible subscribes to. Human bloody violent scarifice, or no heaven, or love for you, is a tryranny of the first order, either you are with us or against us. Yup, it's a pretty sick mentality...typically human though. Only a human can come up with an idea like that.

More and more people on this forum are ignoring the posts I make, because they know I tell the truth, and most people hate the truth, they cannot handle it.
.

Well, I'm not ignoring all your posts. The ones I have read seem like good ones. I guess it will just be you and me.

[Dontaskme]

Well, I'm not ignoring all your posts. The ones I have read seem like good ones. I guess it will just be you and me.

Intelligent people are the most pessimistic. Being pessimistic is to be 'wide awake' to the hard cold facts as they actually are, and knowing the difference between the real hard cold facts, and false optimisms and hope. .also known as( toxic positivity, usually money driven)

No one chose to be born to this world. But we were born to live in agreement with a societally created coping strategy, or face reality even though it's really uncomfortable.

You have been born into a society that condemns 'pessimistic thought' and glorifies optimism. Rare is the one who makes peace with reality as it actually is without the filtered rose coloured spectacles.


Many of the coping strategies are just hedonistic distractions from the actual brutal and harsh reality that is life. When enough people can convince themselves that life is worth living, then no force on earth will stop this self-indulgent drive to exist.

In reality, nature is a malevolent force to be reckoned with, and only a fool would think that's a good deal worth taking the risk for.

.

[Dontaskme]

I guess it will just be you and me.

I think we are a different type of people cursed to see the illusion of a god to be worshipped and blessed with the strength to think freely and break that delusional programming.

[bahman]

Like for example WHEN?



So, as long as you are doing 'evil' things, with 'respect', then this is all right, correct?



So, you CAUSE the animal to be KILLED, and then you thank that animal for your 'evil' doing?

Sounds rather CONTRADICTORY and very HYPOCRITICAL, well to me anyway.

WHY do you just NOT do the Wrong in the first place?

What do you eat? Isn't what you eat alive?

KILLING ANIMALS is NOT needed to stay alive.

EATING NUTRIENTS is however.

Whatever we eat is alive including animals. We just need to ensure that they are kept in a good condition.