To Immanuel Can

[Gary Childress]

Based on what I have experienced of life, if there is a God, then it must be a God of misery because this world is little more than a domain of misery in my experience. And if there is an afterlife, then I can't imagine anything that a disembodied spirit can do that would constitute a "heavenly" experience. All the best things that I can think of involve being physically present. What pleasures exist for a disembodied spirit? I can only think that without the body the BEST state of affairs one can achieve is profound boredom.

[Immanuel Can]

The Bible was written by other humans who didn't witness an afterlife either, IC. Therefore, how is your reply anything more than an appeal to false authority fallacy?

For a "false authority" fallacy, the "authority" in question has to be false, Gary.

Is God an authority on the afterlife? I'm going to say "Yes." And I think, anybody who concedes it's possible that God exists would have to agree with me on that...assuming God does, in fact, exist.

The only question remaining is, "Where has God ever spoken on that subject?" And the answer you're offering is, "Nowhere." And if that's right, then none of us knows, or can know, anything about the subject.

But what is the Bible? Is it just something "written by" mere "humans," or was it, as it claims to be, written by prophets directed by the Spirit of God? The answer to that question cannot be settled arbitrarily, prior to consideration of the evidence. And the only way to gather the relevant evidence is to read the Bible, and then decide whether it's the mere word of men, or something inspired by God.

That's a decision you're going to have to make. But obviously, you can't make it without knowing the Bible.

[Immanuel Can]

You cannot know for certain who the creator of the universe is if you did not witness the universe being created and you cannot know for certain if there's an afterlife if you've never been dead.

Well, you can't know experientially, of course. But there are other ways of knowing than experientially.

One key thing is this: if (and let's just say, hypothetically) God wished to, could God tell us about what is coming?

If you say, "No," then I ask, "Why couldn't He?"

If you say, "He hasn't," I say, "How did you prove that to yourself?"

But we both know the answer. God, assuming He exists, certainly could tell us anything He wished to. And you don't actually have a proof basis for any suggestion He hasn't...do you?

[Immanuel Can]

...this world is little more than a domain of misery in my experience.

I'll accept your claim at face value, because I can't say what you've personally experienced. But clearly, it's not what everybody thinks. This life may have its difficulties, and even serious challenges and "downs," at times; but it's not an unbroken vale of misery.

And if there is an afterlife, then I can't imagine anything that a disembodied spirit can do that would constitute a "heavenly" experience.

The afterlife isn't "disembodied." So that should relieve your concern.

[Immanuel Can]

What is the reason that is written in the Bible?

The reason that is written in the Bible is because it's the truth, of course.

How do you know that what is written in Bible is true?

Read it.

Decide for yourself. I encourage you. But focus first on the key person: Jesus Christ. See what you think of Him. But to know who He is, you're going to have to do a little reading.

I am not talking about creation but the act of creation.

So am I.

Has it not occurred to you that this world is a dynamic Creation, not a stone sculpture?

Look at its intricate workings, its natural laws, its balances and regularities, its symbiotic relationships, its interconnectedness, its rationality and comprehensibility, and the miracle of your own consciousness, among all the other miracles around you daily...and ask yourself if the explanation, "This all happened by accident" makes a lick of sense.

Creation's happening: are you paying attention?

[Dontaskme]

Has it not occurred to you that this world is a dynamic Creation, not a stone sculpture?

Look at its intricate workings, its natural laws, its balances and regularities, its symbiotic relationships, its interconnectedness, its rationality and comprehensibility, and the miracle of your own consciousness, among all the other miracles around you daily...and ask yourself if the explanation, "This all happened by accident" makes a lick of sense.

Creation's happening: are you paying attention?

That's what Nonduality is pointing to ..the interconnection of all creation. Creation implies a creator, so the two concepts must be the same interconnected oneness that is reality. Nonduality points to the nature of Oneness..

What came first the creator or the creation? ... they both arise together at the same time, namely, NOW..because both concepts are known...in this immediate irrefutable ''Knowing''...that you are.

Nonduality is duality.. the MENtal sphere of conceptual knowing is the bridge between subject and object...the nondual teaching compliments every religious teaching..it's all the same teaching IC

Nonduality just takes out the 'spiritual story'...to leave the fundamental and most basic raw nature of 'WHAT IS'' that is pure reality.

Nonduality points to the fact that God is the whole universe. And is lucid within creation as a conscious entity...and that it is only god who is testing itself as and through experience...and that experience is tested through KNOWING

Please come down to earth IC... it's not good to be apart.

[Dontaskme]

Immanual Can..what do you think of this thought >

When observing the external world which is also within us..projected externally...we can ponder the idea that this tiny little blue dot floating in the vastness of space could be seen as just one tiny pixel within the whole picture ...and that our earthly experience is just one of many experiences that have yet to happen..

And I think that's what is meant by those words that come through to be known as....''In my Father's house are many homes. If it weren't so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you. ... in the house of my Father are many MANsions.''

I would be interested in your opinion on this IC thanks.

[bahman]

The reason that is written in the Bible is because it's the truth, of course.

How do you know that what is written in Bible is true?

Read it.

Decide for yourself. I encourage you. But focus first on the key person: Jesus Christ. See what you think of Him. But to know who He is, you're going to have to do a little reading.

I am not talking about creation but the act of creation.

So am I.

Has it not occurred to you that this world is a dynamic Creation, not a stone sculpture?

Look at its intricate workings, its natural laws, its balances and regularities, its symbiotic relationships, its interconnectedness, its rationality and comprehensibility, and the miracle of your own consciousness, among all the other miracles around you daily...and ask yourself if the explanation, "This all happened by accident" makes a lick of sense.

Creation's happening: are you paying attention?

Just tell me one thing: What is the reason that we could not marry God in Paradise?

[Immanuel Can]

Just tell me one thing: What is the reason that we could not marry God in Paradise?

But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, since you do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

[Dontaskme]

....

Immanuel, I know you do not like talking to me personally, but can you talk to the whole forum and answer this ....

Why didn't (John) SAY....“In the beginning was the bible, and the bible was with God, and the bible was God. The bible was in the beginning with God. All things were made through the bible, and without the bible nothing was made that was made.”

Thanks for not answering.

[bahman]

Just tell me one thing: What is the reason that we could not marry God in Paradise?

But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, since you do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

What is the purpose of a holy book if people do not understand it? So you believe in something you don't understand?

[Immanuel Can]

Just tell me one thing: What is the reason that we could not marry God in Paradise?

But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, since you do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

What is the purpose of a holy book if people do not understand it? So you believe in something you don't understand?

What don't you understand?

What is above seems perfectly clear to me...you'll have to explain your perplexity. I'll try to help, if I can.

[bahman]

But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, since you do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

What is the purpose of a holy book if people do not understand it? So you believe in something you don't understand?

What don't you understand?

What is above seems perfectly clear to me...you'll have to explain your perplexity. I'll try to help, if I can.

I understand the verse. I am asking questions. Can you answer them?

[Immanuel Can]

What is the purpose of a holy book if people do not understand it? So you believe in something you don't understand?

What don't you understand?

What is above seems perfectly clear to me...you'll have to explain your perplexity. I'll try to help, if I can.

I understand the verse. I am asking questions. Can you answer them?

You say you have a "holy book" that people "do not understand." Okay.

Which "holy book" is that?

And what don't you "understand"?

[bahman]

What don't you understand?

What is above seems perfectly clear to me...you'll have to explain your perplexity. I'll try to help, if I can.

I understand the verse. I am asking questions. Can you answer them?

You say you have a "holy book" that people "do not understand." Okay.

Which "holy book" is that?

Bible.

And what don't you "understand"?

Why we couldn't get married by God in Paradise?