Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:49 am
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:08 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:48 am
What is 10 kbp, I assume it is 10,000 years ago?
Archaeologists like myself use the phrase as a short hand for Thousands of years before present. But I thought you would have known that since you think you know something about the subject.
One can easily make reasonable inferences from various historical articles, e.g. the building of the pyramids, great wall of China, Roman history, wars and losers captured as slaves, etc.
There are no historical articles from 10kbp, but you ought to know that since you profess to know something about archaeology.
The differential power between the rulers and the majority is so great and thus slavery was very common during 3000-10,000 years ago.
Note even the evident Bible and Quran condoned slavery.
Your dates are wrong. There is no direct evidence of slavery before wheat production, and then only later from texts.
Slavery was common until the mid nineteenth century, but you ought to know that since you profess to know something about the subject
Note I have argued we need to look at relative % of the population then and the type of slavery involved.
Why?
Suffering is absolute. Millions are enslaved now, why would it make you feel better that there are more slaves NOW when we least need them?
Note the point there is an increased in the average IQ of the majority since 200 years ago but this is also corresponded with increased ignorance when with increased-intelligence widened the horizon of knowledge that is to be known.
There is no evidence for increased IQ.
You are so full of bollocks it is untrue.
What is critical here in terms of moral progress is the illegality of slavery [especially chattel slavery, exploitation of child labor, etc.] in all sovereign nations.
My point is as represented in the OP.
You have not addressed the thread in any sense.
I have not claimed to be competent in archaeology.
You have demonstrated that you are utterly incompetent.
Given this revelation I suggest you stop talking about things you know nothing about.
Noted the earliest recorded signs of slavery was 3500 BC as such my inference is not wrong since I mentioned 5000 - 10,000 years ago.
My inference of 10,000 years ago is based on the inherent 'tribalism' and tribal conflicts where some of the losers [women, children, vulnerable men] were captured and turned into slaves as evident in recorded history.
False inference. And where that true it would be a false interpretation.
Archaeology is often in the habit of comparing extant and recently (last 200 years) studied hunter/gatherer societies to flesh out the material culture finds from prehistory. What they found is that slavery is uncommon, a luxury of civilisation where sufficient infrastructure and hierarchical specialisations are required to maintain the institution of slavery. Individuals brought into the "tribe" from outside were integrated as it was too costly of time and effort to provide the security necessary to keep slaves, especially as H/g societies were constantly on the move and also required good stranger relationships, to avoid constant fighting and competition. The h/g groups of Europe commonly stayed separate for reasons of subsistence and gathered together in large groups seasonally for the exchange of goods and festivals. Such a system could not be sustained were people under the threat of being taken as slaves.
Not even h/g groups such as the Yanomani of the Brazilian rain forest (a tribe know exceptionally for extreme violence), and whose environment was so rich they have no need to be mobile not even they have slaves. What would be the point. Tribal members work harder and require no securing.
If we ignore the above and rely on evidence from 3500BC, there is obviously moral progress re chattel slavery since then to the present 2022. Note my point is specific to chattel slavery not all forms of slavery.
You might like to consider WTF you want to mean by "progress". It's all a bit vague and primary school.
Reading the odd wiki article is not going to give you the grounding needed to make you claims.
Note for example in the progress of this;
Calculus was on confined to the mathematical elitists 200 years ago, then to University students in the 30s - 50s ..but ..
But now, even 10th to 12th grade can do Calculus.
Calculus is sometimes taken in the 12th grade at high school or the first year of university studies, but can occasionally be taken as early as 10th grade. A successfully completed college-level calculus course like one offered via Advanced Placement program is a transfer-level course—that is, it can be accepted by a college as a credit towards graduation requirements. Other optional mathematics courses may be offered, such as statistics or business math.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathemati ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathemati ... ted_States
IQ is related to language and mathematics, surely there are loads of examples where progress has been made on these topics since humans first emerge to the present.
You deny this?
You have fallen well off the thread and onto stoney ground. Calculus is not a measure of progress, and it is certainly not a measure of moral law, private or otherwise.
The history of the last 10000 years is a fall from innate moral laws where humans have attempted to shore up what they have lost by abandoning a more natural lifestyle to and from which those innate moral feelings were selected to evolve to.
Since innate feelings of this kind relate to somatic responses to moral situations rather than learned from cultural norms, such "progress" in that time is not "innate" , "internal" or "private".
The failure of modern morality can thus be attributed in part to the demands of unnatural living in cities and imposed cultural norms.
We are not evolved to live cheek-by jowl in our millions, and we no longer can rely on the evolved morals we enjoyed 10kbp.
But one thing is for sure, ancient hunter gatherers whose lives had daily violence in them in the acquisition of meat, can only have had a much greater respect for other humans else they would not have made it through the ice age. And one thing is for sure there is no evidence of mass graves and killings as we are witness to in Ukraine and what we have seen in Cambodia and Nazi Germany.
And this, my friend, is laughingly called "progess".
As for Newton who was a genius. He was not typical of the average person of his time. Statistically genius is rare. We ought to expect that has the human population increases we will see more genius in evidence.
You have zero warrant for suggesting that calculus is indicative of human progress.
We can only imagine the massive genius who first figured our how to make a bow and arrow where such a thing had never been seen before.
Or consider the genius who did this....
image_2022-04-04_112829.png
