Ukraine Crisis

[iambiguous]

Lol @ the orangutan's claims that had he still been president, Putin wouldn't have attacked Ukraine. Let's examine this. If Putin didn't attack Ukraine, it wouldn't be because he feared a U.S. military response, because of Russia's strategic location. Only by air would any U.S. attack gain any footing.... and the U.S. isn't about to launch a fleet of aircraft carriers into the Atlantic only to have its jets shot down like quail over Russia. And they certainly aren't coming in on foot through China. That leaves entrance with and through eastern NATO countries. But clearly NATO isn't responding to the assault on Ukraine (policy reasons). So that doesn't fly. What's worse is that the orangutan wouldn't know that this is why it wouldn't fly; it's never crossed his mind what a declaration of war with Russia would entail save a nuclear one... which he'd never authorize (capitalists can't rent hotels out during a nuclear war).

Ah, it must be that he and Putin what... have some kind of secret thing together? Maybe the orangutan has dirt on Putin? I can't imagine the orangutan could offer Putin and/or his oligarchs a better business deal that could bring them more wealth than if they were to take over Ukraine to get ahold of its natural resources.

I know they're buddies, but only in the way that two capitalist fatbodies admire each other's ability as professional shysters. If they can't shyster something together, that friendship will quickly end. That's how it works.

I conclude that once again, the orangutan is just babbling to save face for having complimented Putin not three weeks ago before he started blowing up hospitals, schools and maternity wards.

Let's hope this all leads back to the "piss tape".

We came so close to it a few years back.

Even a nuclear war might be worth it if that comes out.

[promethean75]

And listen, Biggs. Don't do nuthin stoopid. Just stay in your apartment and start rationing your food. Capitalistic societies are so badly managed that in the case of a defcon 4 event, the chain of production and distribution will be so devastated that regular folks will starve in a matter of weeks. Start saving containers to capture rain water too. Public utilities will be shut down almost immediately.

[promethean75]

R u saying that if someone brought the Steele dossier to the orangutan, and he said 'piss off!', the pun would be intended?

Maybe, but I doubt it. He's not that bright.

[Dontaskme]

So all Ukraine's president has to do is tell Putin that Ukraine will NEVER join NATO...and that will make Putin withdraw from the special operation having won his main objective.

My golly, why didn't they just say NAY to NATO before the invasion took place?

Seriously, lets just be peaceful, either in life or in death, or from never being born at all... peace is all I ever wanted. I'd have to be a lunatic to want pain, misery, torture and terror.

[promethean75]

Hmm. I have an idea. How hard would it be for an undercover operative to slip an ebola virus into the potable water supply of the Kremlin?

[commonsense]

So all Ukraine's president has to do is tell Putin that Ukraine will NEVER join NATO...and that will make Putin withdraw from the special operation having won his main objective.

My golly, why didn't they just say NAY to NATO before the invasion took place?

Seriously, lets just be peaceful, either in life or in death, or from never being born at all... peace is all I ever wanted. I'd have to be a lunatic to want pain, misery, torture and terror.

Yes, I wonder what the reasons are why Zelensky hasn’t declared Ukraine’s separateness from NATO.

[promethean75]

"So all Ukraine's president has to do is tell Putin that Ukraine will NEVER join NATO...and that will make Putin withdraw from the special operation having won his main objective."

Lol that ship has sailed, bruh. Pootin blew that chance when he invaded Ukraine in 2014. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[promethean75]

"Enlargement has led to tensions with non-member Russia, with Russian President Vladimir Putin demanding that NATO provide legal guarantees that it would stop expanding east (to countries such as Ukraine, Georgia or Moldova)."

You can't tell a sovereign country that they can't join an alliance with other sovereign countries you stupid fucknutts. Who does zis Raashin think he is?

[iambiguous]

From NYT:

"Zelensky Evokes U.S. History in Appeal to Congress"

'In a remarkably direct appeal by a wartime leader to policymakers in Washington, Mr. Zelensky addressed lawmakers on a large screen in a movie theater-style auditorium under the Capitol, invoking the memories of Pearl Harbor and the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks — when the United States came under attack — as he pleaded for support saying, “we need you right now.”'

You can evoke memories going all the way back to the Revolutionay War here. But what doesn't change for America are two things:

1] Putin has access to nearly 6,000 nuclear warheads
2] No one seems to really know for certain what Putin is thinking...either in terms of what he wants, or regarding how far he is willing to go to get what he wants

Everything comes down to these great unknowns in conjunction with what is at stake if Biden goes "too far" from the perspective of a "madman".

Or, hey, maybe Putin is pulling a "Tricky Dick" here. He's not mad at all. He merely wants his enemies to think that he is. Take that as far as it goes...and then when it can't be taken any further, back away from Ukraine in negotiations and call it "peace with honor".

Or, again, there are events unfolding "behind the curtain" that none of us are even aware of.

[iambiguous]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/brie ... tions.html

"Imagining Peace in Ukraine"

"But if it is hard to imagine his accepting some version of defeat, it is not impossible. It would probably involve his deciding that the war was becoming too costly — that it threatened the rest of his priorities and perhaps even his position as Russia’s authoritarian leader.

This kind of cost is exactly what the U.S., E.U., Britain and Ukraine’s other allies are trying to impose on Putin. How might they plausibly succeed?"

Again, it might all come down to whether Putin is indeed clinically -- truly -- crazy or instead just "crazy like a fox".

And, as always, my own fascination with how matters of this sort [for each of us] are rooted in dasein. All of those hundreds and hundreds of factors in our life from the cradle to the grave that can make our motives and intentions profoundly problematic, even entirely obscure.

And, most importantly, even to ourselves.


Edit:

This just in from NYT:

'As Russia’s military progress in Ukraine has slowed and its army has suffered some apparent setbacks, Russian officials say that their negotiations with Kyiv have shown “progress on a number of positions” and that there is “hope that a certain compromise can be reached.”

Russian and Ukrainian representatives were scheduled to talk via video link on Wednesday for a third straight day, their longest round of discussions since Moscow launched its invasion three weeks ago.'

Is this the 'silver lining' we've all been waiting for?

Stay tuned...

[iambiguous]

Then this part: Shades of Hitler?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/worl ... ation.html

'President Biden took office with the idea that this century’s struggle would be between the world’s democracies and autocracies.

'But in waging war on Ukraine, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has been driven by a different concept, ethno-nationalism. It is an idea of nationhood and identity based on language, culture and blood — a collectivist ideology with deep roots in Russian history and thought.

'Mr. Putin has repeatedly asserted that Ukraine is not a real state and that the Ukrainians are not a real people, but actually Russian, part of a Slavic heartland that also includes Belarus.'

------------------------------------------

'For Mr. Putin’s opponents in Ukraine and the West, nations are built on civic responsibility, the rule of law and the rights of individuals and minorities, including free expression and a free vote.'

For Putin though, "this is an identity war.”

[iambiguous]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/worl ... r-war.html

"As Russia Digs In, What’s the Risk of Nuclear War? ‘It’s Not Zero.’"

'A series of shifts in Russian statements about using nuclear weapons has led some analysts to believe that the Kremlin sees a nuclear exchange as a viable strategy.

'A major war raging on Russia’s and NATO’s borders. Increasingly bold Western military support. Russian threats of direct retaliation. A mood of siege and desperation in the Kremlin. Growing uncertainty around each side’s red lines.

'As Russia and NATO escalate their standoff over Ukraine, nuclear strategists and former U.S. officials warn that there is a remote but growing risk of an unintended slide into direct conflict — even, in some scenarios, a nuclear exchange.

'“The prospect of nuclear war,” António Guterres, the United Nations secretary general, warned this week, “is now back within the realm of possibility.”'

'Leaders on both sides emphasize that they consider such a war unthinkable, even as they make preparations and issue declarations for how they might carry it out. But the fear, experts stress, is not a deliberate escalation to war, but a misunderstanding or a provocation gone too far that, as each side scrambles to respond, spirals out of control.

'The war in Ukraine heightens these risks to a level not seen since the Cuban Missile Crisis, and in some ways is potentially more dangerous than that, some experts say.'

Just what we need, "an unintended slide into direct conflict". Or the complex components of human psychology when faced with something as unique and consequential as this. The "what do I do now?!" factor. When dealing with someone like Putin. Or, perhaps, after 2024, Trump?

And, again, each of us, one by one, our opinions rooted precariously in dasein, must ask ourselves "how far would I go to defend Ukraine"?

In other words, if you were Biden or a leader of a Nato nation.

On the other hand, Biden and his counterparts in Nato, will almost certainly be whisked away to safety in the event of a nuclear war.

Can you say that?

[promethean75]

Absolutely. I'm fifty miles from the nearest strategic target of possible interest for the Russians. That's fort Bragg. And in five hours I could be 4,000 feet above sea level in the Appalachian mountains. That radiation would find Jimmy Hoffa before it found me, bro.

[commonsense]

I don’t mean to bury my head in the sand. It’s just that news of the war in Ukraine by Russia gives rise to thoughts of the American invasion of Vietnam. Even the weakest of similarities disturbs me in a way that exacerbates my struggle with PTSD.

Teenage American boys were sent to fight a ground war across the pond back in the 60’s and 70’s. The likelihood now of sending our boys and girls to fight in Ukraine is minimal, however if the madman doesn’t stop before invading Poland, the likelihood becomes stronger. In that event, should it come to be, sadly I may lose some nephews and a niece.

Supplying equipment and tools without direct involvement was China’s role in the Vietnam war, and it seemed to work pretty well for them in the long run. The US may be China’s parallel in this war.

For more gloom for me, there’s a faction in Ukraine like the Viet Cong in that Southeastern Asian quagmire, ie the ethnic Russians in the Ukraine.

[iambiguous]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -trumpism/

Another assessment of the Ukraine conflict which basically revolves around this: how far to support Ukraine without that support triggering an escalation with Putin that possibly triggers WWIII.

'And so, to depict Biden as “weak” in assisting Ukraine, Hannity slammed the president for refusing to provide Polish jet fighters, which Zelensky has requested, along with that no-fly zone.

'“Unfortunately our weak, and frail, and cognitively struggling president, Joe Biden, single-handedly nixed that plan,” Hannity seethed.

'Yes, Biden has nixed this plan. That’s because U.S. intelligence has concluded that supplying those jets could be construed by Vladimir Putin as an overt act of war, leading to a Russia-NATO escalation, and everyone wants to avoid nuclear war.

'One could have a legitimate debate over this question. Hannity could argue that our intelligence services are wrong, that this move wouldn’t produce such an escalation. But this isn’t Hannity’s main thrust. He doesn’t seriously engage with the reason Biden will not supply the fighter jets (even though Hannity himself says he wants to avoid World War III).'

The "politics" here is largely irrelevant though to what is at stake.

Basically it seems to come down to this...

Yes, the West will do what it can, but always short of doing what it takes if what it takes might result in a wider -- much wider -- conflict.

It's like you're outraged at Putin while at the same time fearing that your outrage might result in policies that trigger a nuclear war. And that [shudder to think] could result in the end of you and/or those you love altogether.