nihilism

[Walker]

I'm not fishing. I've told you from the beginning exactly what I want you to say.

And you're miffed that I won't parrot the words you're trying to get me to say...whatever they are, since I have no idea.

Why don't you just let me know what you want me to say? And maybe I'll say the words you want me to say...or maybe not, depending on whether or not they make any sense, of course.

Quote of the day!

[Walker]

Why don't you just let me know what you want me to say?

Maybe it's this.
If not, this is a good start to begin clarifying with yeas, nays, interpretations and variations.
Just sayin'.

"I think intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice?"

Because the terms and intent of justice must be defined, the complex question has too many qualifiers for a simple, one word answer. Therefore, the question invites a wordier explanation that satisfies the conditions of the question.

A proportional response* to a victim of intentionally inflicted pain, suffering, or loss can be determined by a society. Rule of Law.

A proportional response* can also be determined by an individual. Rule of Man.
Rule of Man varies by the man.

Rule of Law varies by the circumstance of the incident(s), and the society.
Rule of Law variances are caused by rules, and corruption of rules.

Rule of Man variances are usually caused by the Big Dog.




* What are the qualities of a proportional response, and why must the response be proportional?

[Immanuel Can]

"I think intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice?"

Could be. But it depends on what he's done, and what God's assessment of what he's done is.

Like I say, I'm not the Judge.

Because the terms and intent of justice must be defined, the complex question has too many qualifiers for a simple, one word answer. Therefore, the question invites a wordier explanation that satisfies the conditions of the question.

That's a good point.

As near as I can see, he thinks that "justice" means "make it just like it was before." That wouldn't be my definition, nor many people's I suspect. People have offered such other definitions as: restitution, retribution, fairness, consequences, prevention, disincentivizing and even reformation, among others.

So why he's locked onto his definition, I can't tell. I'm not even sure what it is. He's too busy feigning high-mindedness for me to get that kind of information out of him.

One thing for sure: he doesn't like the answers I've given, even though they're the truth. I don't know what more I can do for him on that.

[RCSaunders]

I'm not fishing. I've told you from the beginning exactly what I want you to say.

And you're miffed that I won't parrot the words you're trying to get me to say...whatever they are, since I have no idea.

Why don't you just let me know what you want me to say? And maybe I'll say the words you want me to say...or maybe not, depending on whether or not they make any sense, of course.

Why would I be miffed? I couldn't care less. You've shown me what you are, and I've learned a lesson. A Christian will always be duplicitous and deceitful about what he really believes.

In case you are interested, when discussing Christianity with others I am going to use links to some of your posts as evidence, "Christians believe intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice?" on the grounds you refuse to deny it, and that, "the execution or implementation of retribuitive justice achieves nothing of any positive value or purpose," on the grounds that you refuse to define or identify any such, even repudiating the idea.

[Immanuel Can]

...what he really believes.

You have no idea.

I can see that.

But I've made it clear. Your problems with reading are not something I can fix.

[VVilliam]

It is about keeping the temptation of vengeance at bay - for those who argue vengeance is a good thing to desire - before they let that particular rabid dog out...

Well, I'm not seein' anything there that would stay me.

Be that as it may - it is useful to me as a powerful device re the theistic position on matters of the world.

I never said vengeance (the desire for) was a good thing.

No you did not. I think you implied it was somehow okay anyway...If not, my bad.

[VVilliam]

"Christians believe intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice?"

More to the point of truth - And from my own experience - most Christians appear to believe in an image of GOD who is the one Christians believe intentionally inflicts pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, as a form of justice.

Which is different from how you are wording it.

[RCSaunders]

"Christians believe intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice?"

More to the point of truth - And from my own experience - most Christians appear to believe in an image of GOD who is the one Christians believe intentionally inflicts pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, as a form of justice.

Which is different from how you are wording it.

Because they say God is the one who does it changes the fact they believe intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice? Don't they think God is administering justice? I can't see how indicating who administers justice changes its meaning.

Sorry, I just don't get you, "point?"

[Immanuel Can]

Sorry, I just don't get you, "point?"

We don't know what you understand by your use of the word "justice." Can you define what you think it is?

[bahman]

Nope. It just means we're getting a temporary break. That's all.

"...with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be discovered." (2 Peter 3:8-10)

So, you, for example, leave a serial killer free to kill more until he dies naturally? What type of logic is this?

Point out to me where the Scripture says what you attribute to it.

I am asking you. What would you do?

[Immanuel Can]

So, you, for example, leave a serial killer free to kill more until he dies naturally? What type of logic is this?

Point out to me where the Scripture says what you attribute to it.

I am asking you. What would you do?

Nothing in your question corresponds to anything I said, or the Scripture contained. So I have no idea where you're even getting talk of a "serial killer" or "leaving him free to kill until he dies naturally." You're going to have to explain your reasoning, if you want an answer. At the moment, I can see no connection.

[bahman]

Point out to me where the Scripture says what you attribute to it.

I am asking you. What would you do?

Nothing in your question corresponds to anything I said, or the Scripture contained. So I have no idea where you're even getting talk of a "serial killer" or "leaving him free to kill until he dies naturally." You're going to have to explain your reasoning, if you want an answer. At the moment, I can see no connection.

Again, I am asking you and want to know what you do according to your logic. I am not asking what scripture says. Scripture says that God will repay. Do you think that we should leave serial killers free?

[henry quirk]

it is useful to me as a powerful device re the theistic position on matters of the world.

Well, mebbe that's why I find it impotent: I'm not a theist.

I think you implied it was somehow okay anyway...If not, my bad.

No worries. FYI: I did imply, pretty strongly, revenge would be necessary, for me, in a particular circumstance. Mebbe you mistook that necessity as good.

[VVilliam]

it is useful to me as a powerful device re the theistic position on matters of the world.

Well, mebbe that's why I find it impotent: I'm not a theist.

Exactly.

I think you implied it was somehow okay anyway...If not, my bad.

No worries. FYI: I did imply, pretty strongly, revenge would be necessary, for me, in a particular circumstance. Mebbe you mistook that necessity as good.

No. I was not seeing it as anything other than 'bad' because of the 'rabid dog being let lose' angle - I was just saying that you labelling rape and those other bad things as letting the rabid dogs loose, was no different to my understand [as a theist] to your wanting to exact vengeance [in a particular circumstance] along the lines of 'two evils do not = any good".

I was pointing out an inconsistency I could see, although I was under the impression that you did not think murdering someone in an act of vengeance was 'good', I was under the impression that you were not including murder-through-vengeance alongside those other acts you referred to as 'rabid'...for in truth - it belongs with those others, and your justification hasn't convinced me otherwise.

[VVilliam]

"Christians believe intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice?"

More to the point of truth - And from my own experience - most Christians appear to believe in an image of GOD who is the one Christians believe intentionally inflicts pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, as a form of justice.

Which is different from how you are wording it.

Because they say God is the one who does it changes the fact they believe intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice? Don't they think God is administering justice? I can't see how indicating who administers justice changes its meaning.

Sorry, I just don't get you, "point?"

I suppose my point is that I understand that they believe that God has the right to administer such punishment as Justice, and there is no evil attached to that.

In the same way there is no evil attached to humans administering justice and even the death penalty, earth-side.
Some Christians do argue that humans have no right to take human life and thus the taking of life is evil - but I have never meet any who advocate "let the rabid dogs free to roam and abuse as they will!".