The Philosophy of Obesity

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:12 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:19 pm So who and where did anyone say that you can eat as much fat as you like and never put on any weight?
Earlier you condemned the 'Eat Fat, Get Thin' claim.
I presume you now agree to the claim as supported by the points I provided above.
It is only those who have been brainwashed by Ancel Keys' ideology who would view fats as evil [nutritious sense].

Re 'eat as much fat as you like and can' and no weight gain.
I have read and listened many times the 'eat as much fat as you like and can' claim thus I am confident of such a statement.

Here is one among the many.
Can I Eat Too Much Fat on a KETO DIET?
Dr. Ken Berry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfuY4aePro8

Note the condition is provided one do not already have a pre-existing case of hyperinsulinemia and its associated disease.

Here is 'your' Thomas Delauer alluding to it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc0j0iKitSI
"People will tell you that you need to have ton of fat in order to produce enough ketones to feel good.
The reality is you need a lot of fat but you don't need a ridiculous amount."

The positive thing with 'eat as much fats as you like and can' [on a low carb diet] is, fats can generate satiety and inhibit hunger without having to have a ridiculous amount.

Fats are also self limiting to how much fats one can eat.
Normally [no pre-existing hyperinsulinemia nor insulin resistance], once one reached satiety level [very quickly with fats], however good and one generally like the [fat]-food, any additional fats to be eaten becomes awful, distasteful and even nauseating to eat.
Note the Laws of Marginal Diminishing Utility.
So who and where did anyone say that you can eat as much fat as you like and never put on any weight?

One characteristic of a good debater is the ability to admit when you have made a mistake.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:36 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:12 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:19 pm So who and where did anyone say that you can eat as much fat as you like and never put on any weight?
Earlier you condemned the 'Eat Fat, Get Thin' claim.
I presume you now agree to the claim as supported by the points I provided above.
It is only those who have been brainwashed by Ancel Keys' ideology who would view fats as evil [nutritious sense].

Re 'eat as much fat as you like and can' and no weight gain.
I have read and listened many times the 'eat as much fat as you like and can' claim thus I am confident of such a statement.

Here is one among the many.
Can I Eat Too Much Fat on a KETO DIET?
Dr. Ken Berry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfuY4aePro8

Note the condition is provided one do not already have a pre-existing case of hyperinsulinemia and its associated disease.

Here is 'your' Thomas Delauer alluding to it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc0j0iKitSI
"People will tell you that you need to have ton of fat in order to produce enough ketones to feel good.
The reality is you need a lot of fat but you don't need a ridiculous amount."

The positive thing with 'eat as much fats as you like and can' [on a low carb diet] is, fats can generate satiety and inhibit hunger without having to have a ridiculous amount.

Fats are also self limiting to how much fats one can eat.
Normally [no pre-existing hyperinsulinemia nor insulin resistance], once one reached satiety level [very quickly with fats], however good and one generally like the [fat]-food, any additional fats to be eaten becomes awful, distasteful and even nauseating to eat.
Note the Laws of Marginal Diminishing Utility.
So who and where did anyone say that you can eat as much fat as you like and never put on any weight?

One characteristic of a good debater is the ability to admit when you have made a mistake.
Nope I did not make any mistake in this case. One self-imposed trait with me is I NEVER simply made claims from the air [just as with other philosophy topics] but rather I made my claims based on extensive and in depth reading of the subject concern.

If I make a mistake, e.g. earlier I equated 'CICO' with 'Energy Balance' and I admitted to the mistake and made the correction to contrast the above with CIM Model.

I told you I have read of many who made this claim and they based in on principles based on scientific research. Unfortunately I do not keep track of the references and links.
If you explore very extensively, widely and deeply you will come across such a claim and it is supported by real results and experiences reported by many who had adopt such a diet.

My point is subjected to the following limit.
Note 'eat as much healthy fats as one like and can' is self-limiting since normally such fats will be awful one the limit is reached.
I believe even if one if forced fed such fats, the excess will be secreted if there is no pre-existing condition of hyperinsulinemia. Such a experiment is not carried out because it is unethical to be done with humans.

Here is the link again that implied my point [did you listen to the video].
Here is this guy who lost 145 pounds eating butter and other good fats;
  • Butter Makes Your Pants Fall Off
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6aMN6NLOTQ
    How I lost 145 lbs in 14 months, cured my acid reflux, lost my joint pain, and lowered my triglycerides, by eating butter and other healthy fats.


Image

The above reported personal experiences and from any others, give me the confidence of that scientific-evidence-based claim; ''eat as much fat as you like and can' and no weight gain.. [note the statement on his T-Shirt]

Personally, I have eaten loads of kg of butter deliberately to lose weight but I have not gained weight.

You can test this theory yourself, i.e. eat as much butter and other healthy fats as you can, say for 3 months, provided you take very low [preferable no carbs] carbs, then you will lose weight like Bob Briggs above.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

@Sculptor, I believe here is where you need to narrow your Gap on the knowledge of Fats.

One of the problem why most people are apprehensive about and has fears of Fats is because they generalize that all Fats are the same.

From Dr. Mark Hyman's book [Eat Fat, Get Thin] it is noted not all fats are the same, there are many types of fats and they have different sources and impact on the body metabolism;

Categories of Fat and how it affects our biology, our weight, and our health;
  • • SATURATED FATS (SFA)
    • MONOUNSATURATED FATS (MUFA)
    • POLYUNSATURATED FATS (PUFA):
    • OMEGA-6 AND
      OMEGA3 FATTY ACIDS
    • Medium-Chain Omega-6s: Linoleic acid (LA)
    • Long-Chain Omega-6s: Arachidonic Acid (AA)
    • Omega-3 Fats
    • Medium-Chain Omega-3s: Alpha Linolenic Acid (ALA)
    • TRANS FATS (TFA)
Dr. Hyman provide details of the above in the above.

Why we can eat all the healthy fats [butter, lard, etc.] we like and can and still remain thin is due to the following details about saturated fats - based on a research study of Saturated Fats;
  • First let’s look at what they found out about Saturated Fats.
    As you know by now, there are different types of Saturated Fats:
    • myristic acid,
    • pentadecanoic acid,
    • palmitic acid,
    • margaric acid,
    • stearic acid,
    • lauric acid, and
    • so on.

    They are classified as odd-chain or even-chain.
    Some come from diet; some are produced mostly in the Liver.
  • Here’s where it gets interesting.
    The kinds of Saturated Fats circulating in the blood that were associated with heart disease were even-chain palmitic and stearic acid.
    And guess what: Most palmitic and stearic acids in the body are produced in your Liver when you eat Carbohydrates.
    They don’t come from eating Fat.
    That’s right.
  • Carbs and alcohol (a form of Sugar), not Saturated Fat, trigger high blood levels of stearic and palmitic acid.
    This is kind of shocking news.

    Another interesting finding was that the odd-chain Fats, such as margaric acid, that come from dairy Fat like Butter actually showed a reduction in risk of heart disease.
    Yes, you read that right: Butter showed a reduction in heart disease risk!
    Grass-fed animals have more of these odd-chain protective Fats.
  • Let’s review.

    Saturated Fats (palmitic acid and stearic acid) in your blood that cause heart attacks come from eating Sugar and Carbs, not Fat.

    Saturated Fats (margaric acid) that come from dairy and Butter show a reduced risk of heart disease.

    Omega-6 Fats from vegetable oils show no benefit and may increase risk of heart attacks.

    Omega-6 Fats from poultry, eggs, and beef (arachidonic acid) seem to be protective.

    Omega-3 Fats from fish are the most protective.

    The conclusion?
    Avoid most vegetable oils.
    Eat more Butter, fish, chicken, eggs, and meat.
    And stay away from Sugar and Carbs.

    Boy, did we get this wrong!
    This was far from the only study that redeemed the sullied reputation of Saturated Fat.
    There have been a slew of studies that have been mostly ignored by policy makers and medical associations.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Sculptor »

One characteristic of a good debater is the ability to admit when you have made a mistake.
Skepdick
Posts: 16022
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Skepdick »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:27 am One characteristic of a good debater is the ability to admit when you have made a mistake.
By your very own standards you are a piss poor debater.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Sculptor »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:06 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:27 am One characteristic of a good debater is the ability to admit when you have made a mistake.
By your very own standards you are a piss poor debater.
Gosh, how mature of you, to find another thread, about which you know nothing, and use it as an opportunity to take one of your little dumps.
Did your mummy forget to put your nappy on?
Skepdick
Posts: 16022
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Skepdick »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:09 am Gosh, how mature of you, to find another thread, about which you know nothing, and use it as an opportunity to take one of your little dumps.
Did your mummy forget to put your nappy on?
I made the comment apropos nothing.

In general (and explicitly without pertaining to the contents of this thread) you are a piss poor debater.

Being unable to recognise you are mistaken is only part of your problem.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Sculptor »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:17 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:09 am Gosh, how mature of you, to find another thread, about which you know nothing, and use it as an opportunity to take one of your little dumps.
Did your mummy forget to put your nappy on?
I made the comment apropos nothing.

In general (and explicitly without pertaining to the contents of this thread) you are a piss poor debater.

Being unable to recognise you are mistaken is only part of your problem.
Please refer to the posts I made above.
Skepdick
Posts: 16022
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Skepdick »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:40 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:17 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:09 am Gosh, how mature of you, to find another thread, about which you know nothing, and use it as an opportunity to take one of your little dumps.
Did your mummy forget to put your nappy on?
I made the comment apropos nothing.

In general (and explicitly without pertaining to the contents of this thread) you are a piss poor debater.

Being unable to recognise you are mistaken is only part of your problem.
Please refer to the posts I made above.
Ditto.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:27 am
Sadly this guy is already dead, and so not around to contradict your mistake.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:52 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:27 am
Sadly this guy is already dead, and so not around to contradict your mistake.
I have not read he is dead. Where's your evidence?
Even if so, perhaps that is due to some pre-existing complications but his experiences did prove eating fats can reduce weights, not increase weight as you claimed.

Btw, there are thousands and perhaps millions doing the same on the Keto diets as supported by scientific studies and there is no reported cases of they died eating too much fats [healthy ones].

Note this;
Fat Fiction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUADs-CK7vI
Fat Fiction reveals how the United States government relied on questionable evidence to support one of the most damaging public health recommendations in the history of our country: the “low fat diet.” [and demonized all fats]

Big Fat Nutrition Policy | Nina Teicholz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzQAHITIUhg&t=779s
At this event, Ms. Teicholz will tell of her discovery of the systematic distortion of dietary advice by expert scientists, government and big business to the detriment of the health of Americans. [i.e. promote low-carb and demonized all fats].

It is not a mistake to claim in principle 'eating fats as much as one like and can and still do not gain weight' if done without any hyperinsulinemia conditions.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

@Sculptor,

Here are some studies which show in Principle, eat all the fat [healthy ones like MCT in this case] you like or can and still not gain weight or better lose weight;

From Mark Hyman's Eat Fat, Get Thin Chapter 8
In the body, MCTs convert easily into energy; therefore, very little MCT Oil is stored as Fat, because it is used for energy.
This is how MCTs help you burn Fat and lose weight.

In a study published in the journal Obesity Research in 2003, scientists at McGill University carried out a randomized controlled trial to compare the effects of medium-chain Triglycerides and long-chain Triglycerides on body Fat, energy expenditure, appetite, and other aspects of weight loss in overweight men.23
They recruited twenty-four overweight men and put them on different diets for twenty-eight days.
They switched the diets after a period of time so they could analyze the differences in the same people—this is called a crossover design.
One group ate a diet rich in medium-chain Triglycerides, like coconut Oil.
The other group ate a diet rich in long-chain Triglycerides, like olive Oil.
Then the participants switched diets midway through the study.
When the study was over, the researchers found that men on the MCT diet lost more body Fat (especially belly Fat).
The MCT Oil boosted energy expenditure and Fat oxidation, or burning—in other words, their metabolism was faster.
They were also less hungry than those who ate the olive Oil diet.

Another small study carried out at the University of Rochester Medical Center and published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition looked at what happened when a group of men consumed meals with either MCTs or LCTs.24
The test meals contained either 45 grams of MCT or 45 grams of LCT in the form of corn Oil, and the scientists measured the subjects’ metabolic rates both before the meals and up to six hours after.
They measured oxygen consumption (which is an indirect measurement of metabolism—the more oxygen you can burn per minute, the more calories you can burn and the faster your metabolism) and found that oxygen consumption after the meal rich in MCTs increased by 12 percent—about triple the increase seen after the LCT meal.
They also found that blood levels of Triglycerides soared by 68 percent after the LCT meal with corn Oil, but there was no increase in Triglycerides after the MCT meal.
The authors state, “This study also raises the possibility that replacing LCT with MCT over long periods of time could produce weight loss in the absence of reduced energy intake.”

Eat more [MCT fats], weigh less.
Sounds good to me!

Lots of other studies support the benefits of MCT Oils.
MCT Oils are good for many reasons.
They get absorbed directly from the gut to the Liver and burned quickly, while Omega-6 Fats from seed, bean, or grain Oils—like corn, soy, sunflower, and canola—are transported into the lymphatic system, not the blood, which allows them to be taken up in your Fat tissues.
That is why MCT Oils boost your metabolism and help you burn more calories, reduce Fat storage, and cut your appetite.
They are like superfuel for your cells.
Studies show they cause you to burn about 460 extra calories a day for men and about 190 extra calories for women (sorry, ladies).
They also affect your hormones differently than other Fats do, helping you feel full.

In another study, consumption of MCTs reduced body Fat and Triglycerides more than Omega-6 vegetable Oils.
After eight weeks, the experiment showed that the group having the MCT had greater reductions in their
  • weight,
    body Fat percentage, and
    levels of subcutaneous Fat and
    a 15 percent drop in Triglycerides and LDL, or bad Cholesterol (even though the MCT is a Saturated Fat),

despite no differences in exercise levels or daily consumption of total calories, Protein, Fat, and Carbs.

That’s right: no fewer calories, but more weight loss.
The researchers attributed this to increased metabolism and Fat burning.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

It's well accepted now that it's carbs that make people fat, not good fats.
High protein and low carbs is the way to lose excess weight and keep it off. High protein, low carbs, moving, and drinking water. It's not very complicated.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Sculptor »

dup
Last edited by Sculptor on Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8859
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: The Philosophy of Obesity

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:44 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:52 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:27 am
Sadly this guy is already dead, and so not around to contradict your mistake.
I have not read he is dead. Where's your evidence?
If you took the opportunity to read the comments on his thread rather than just watch pretty pictures, you'd worked that out for yourself.

I still waiting for you to tell me where all that fat goes in people who are "eating all the fat they want".
Post Reply