Imperefct God

[Immanuel Can]

The point I want to discuss is

Well, I normally ignore uwot. He's a suicidal loon. But occasionally I see his remarks from something quoted by somebody else, and if it's somebody I do speak with, like yourself, I may respond.

Christianity does not say that somebody else gets punished for your sins. Ezekiel 18:20, Psalm 49:7.

Everybody dies for his own sins, not for the sins of another. The one exception is as follows:

"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
and
"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God..." (1 Peter 1:18)

It is unclear from Immanuel Can's posts which sort of Xian he is.

That's good. There shouldn't be "sorts of" Christians. There is one truth, and all Christians should stand for the same truth. What need have we of "sorts"?

If that's your premise, you should state evidence that your premise is true.

Sorry...which "premise" from the above, J?

[Belinda]

The point I want to discuss is

The general christian guide to morality is that some one else gets punished for your sins,

Well, I normally ignore uwot. He's a suicidal loon. But occasionally I see his remarks from something quoted by somebody else, and if it's somebody I do speak with, like yourself, I may respond.

Christianity does not say that somebody else gets punished for your sins. Ezekiel 18:20, Psalm 49:7.

Everybody dies for his own sins, not for the sins of another. The one exception is as follows:

"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
and
"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God..." (1 Peter 1:18)

It is unclear from Immanuel Can's posts which sort of Xian he is.

That's good. There shouldn't be "sorts of" Christians. There is one truth, and all Christians should stand for the same truth. What need have we of "sorts"?

The need we have for sorts of Xians is as follows. Xians who believe JC is the unique light of the world fail to recognise that some men who are not godlike have had episodes of being heroically good and those men too are lights in the darkness.

Another point; you seem to ignore the fact that belief in the Xian myths is on the decline except perhaps among elderly people, and among people who have not been taught post-enlightenment thinking. This era is a post-Christian era when Xian morality still exists but is ignored by politicians and their financial colleagues. If Xians don't update the myths to suit modern people Xianity will fade away.

[Immanuel Can]

The need we have for sorts of Xians is as follows. Xians who believe JC is the unique light of the world fail to recognise that some men who are not godlike have had episodes of being heroically good and those men too are lights in the darkness.

Problem: Christ Himself, and the Bible generally, says that's just not so.

As Peter says in Acts 4: "...there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”

The words of Jesus, in John's gospel, 8:23-24: "And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.”

People may do good deeds, and they certainly do bad ones. But that is not the issue: the issue is, where do we stand in regard to our relationship to God when we do whatever we do? Are we acting as His, or acting for ourselves, or acting for our kin, our culture, or mankind, but not in view of the one true God?

There is but one salvific Name in the universe, and no other person saves anyone...not even himself or herself.

This era is a post-Christian era when Xian morality still exists but is ignored by politicians and their financial colleagues.

I don't doubt that this is so. And it's all the worse for that, and they will come into Judgment because of it, if they do not change their minds.

If Xians don't update the myths to suit modern people Xianity will fade away.

Not according to Scripture. According to Scripture, it is true that people will be less and less favourable to Christians. But it is also promised that the Judgment of the world is coming because of the world's rejection of Jesus the Messiah. So you might not want to rejoice too early about that. Look around you, instead, and see the way the world is going...and my advice would be to take warning, before the day of God's Judgment catches you asleep too.

This world's cry for justice will be answered. My hope is that you will find yourself on the right side when it does.

[Belinda]

That is a straightforward reply, IC. If you provided some scholarly Biblical research I'd like your Biblical interpretations better.

[Belinda]

This world's cry for justice will be answered.

Cries for justice are heard by people not gods. There is no magical Deity Who intervenes to save people, and it is a cop out from responsibilities to believe on magical intervention.

[Immanuel Can]

That is a straightforward reply, IC. If you provided some scholarly Biblical research I'd like your Biblical interpretations better.

"Biblical research," B? What can be better than direct quotations? They're original-source research.

They are also the ultimate compliment, because offering them shows that the speaker believes in the capacity of the reader to look them up, see the context, consider them for herself, and freely judge what is true.

What can some other man's opinion add to that, that is not inferior?

[Immanuel Can]

This world's cry for justice will be answered.

Cries for justice are heard by people not gods.

Man is the source of injustice. And all his efforts for "social justice" are dusty and self-serving. That is why there is no relief for the oppressed, and no justice for the abused. If mankind is the only ear that hears, then justice is nothing but a hopeless fiction.

True justice requires the True Judge. Nothing less will do.

[uwot]

Well, I normally ignore uwot. He's a suicidal loon.

Mr Can, I must take issue with your contention that I am suicidal. This would be true if I was persuaded that your dire prognosis were likely to come true, but you have yet to convince me. As someone who cares deeply about accurate definitions, I'm sure you appreciate that suicidal only applies to those who knowingly wish to end their life. I shan't challenge the loon bit.

[Greatest I am]

Beliefs are spread by people aggrandizing their own beliefs. Atheist do the same.

Is my premise acceptable to you?

Well, atheists shoot themselves in the foot in that respect since they cannot claim to be in communion with some god. That said, atheism is no protection against being a pompous fool.

Your last is definitely correct, as shown by the many theists who stupidly believe in the supernatural.

You are thinking backwards with your, " atheists shoot themselves in the foot in that respect since they cannot claim to be in communion with some god "

Their not being delusional enough to be in communication with the supernatural, shows that atheists are more sane than the religious who are communicating with the supernatural. Especially a beloved genocidal p**** of a god.

Atheists are more sane than theists.

Prove me wrong by argument.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

uwot wrote:

Again, Mr Can's concept of a moral principle is his own. The general christian guide to morality is that some one else gets punished for your sins, and that failure to believe this is the only unforgivable sin, the punishment for which is eternal torture. Forgivable sins include rape, torture, murder and genocide, all of which occur in the bible, but which with characteristic revisionism Mr Can deems sinful because he has been infected with a healthy dose of secular morality.

The point I want to discuss is

The general christian guide to morality is that some one else gets punished for your sins,

It's true that many Xians do believe the Atonement teaching like it is an updated version of human sacrifice to placate a god. However the idea has mileage that very good men and very good acts by men can alleviate the horribleness of men in general, like lights in the darkness.
Many Xians believe a version of the latter , but what distinguishes Xians from unbelievers is that true Xians also believe Jesus Christ was and always will be the unique light in the darkness.

It is unclear from Immanuel Can's posts which sort of Xian he is.

Should Christians hope that Jesus is the light, given that the genocidal p**** is going to genocide us again with his Armageddon?

I would prefer that they be Anti-Christ, as that is anti genocide.

Go you like the idea of being murdered just because you want to think your way?

Christians pray that Jesus kills you for it.

Regards
DL

[uwot]

Atheists are more sane than theists.

Prove me wrong by argument.

It's not something I have any interest in doing, but the general form of argument that some 'analytic philosopher' might present would start with a definition of insanity. It could very well include a bit of Pascal's Wager, according to which the rewards for believing in god, if he exists, vastly outweigh the minor inconvenience of being a dreary fuckwit all your life. Therefore you have to be insane not to believe in god.

[Dontaskme]

This world's cry for justice will be answered.

Cries for justice are heard by people not gods. There is no magical Deity Who intervenes to save people, and it is a cop out from responsibilities to believe on magical intervention.

Mr Can Can't is forever stuck in his own self inflicted la la land, believing he has a mummy and a daddy, who will cater for his every need, he projects that neediness onto a 'higher entity' that lies beyond the living flesh, then hopelessly and desperately believes that 'higher entity' needed him...

But back in the real world, reality needs nothing, it's already complete and whole just as it is, hogwarts and all..


Needy people are just a blight. Their high maintenance stance is just not workable and is why nature will do everything in her power to kill off any surplas to requirements.

.

[Dontaskme]

When people choose to bring new life into the world they are literally forcing someone else to live a life..

So you think reproduction is evil?

That's got to be more theatrics, unless you've got some actual reasons behind that.

To imply the concept evil is to know the concept. Knowing evil, is knowing the concept evil.

So Yes, forcing someone else who does not know evil, to live a life of knowing evil, because you know evil, is wrong....that someone will be subject to the same knowing of evil.

Why would you want to invite someone else, to come play evil ?

Where is the moral reasoning in that? ... please explain the moral reason to procreate?

[Dontaskme]

This world's cry for justice will be answered.

Cries for justice are heard by people not gods.

Man is the source of injustice. And all his efforts for "social justice" are dusty and self-serving. That is why there is no relief for the oppressed, and no justice for the abused. If mankind is the only ear that hears, then justice is nothing but a hopeless fiction.

True justice requires the True Judge. Nothing less will do.

And the True Judge is man....Nothing more will do.

You don't like that conclusion do you?

Why are you so unbelievably thick, not seeing that there is nothing higher than human sentient awareness that can be known?

If there is something higher than human sentient awareness, that will all be inside your own head. Impasse time, Can can't, impasse time, just admit to yourself...YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING except what you make up with your conception.

If God really existed, then you would never have to utter a single word to anyone about God, you'd already know truth of God.

The fact that you bleat on and on about God informs you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, except in your own conception, that you created.

I don't see non-talking animals building churches of worship do you?

But as long as you constantly seek support for your conception of God, and get that support, that will just feed your delusion even more. You feed off of your own conceived conceptual thought stream, never really knowing how or why this process happens, except what you want to believe according to your own man-made knowledge.

Welcome to the circle of not-knowing knowing. Caught your own tail yet? or do you love the drama?

Yep, your just another pompous Kunt aren't you Can Can't ?




.

[attofishpi]

Beliefs are spread by people aggrandizing their own beliefs. Atheist do the same.

Is my premise acceptable to you?

Well, atheists shoot themselves in the foot in that respect since they cannot claim to be in communion with some god. That said, atheism is no protection against being a pompous fool.

Your last is definitely correct, as shown by the many theists who stupidly believe in the supernatural.

Define, "supernatural"

If God exists, does the definition of "SUPERNATURAL" apply to IT?

You are thinking backwards with your, " atheists shoot themselves in the foot in that respect since they cannot claim to be in communion with some god "

Their not being delusional enough to be in communication with the supernatural, shows that atheists are more sane than the religious who are communicating with the supernatural. Especially a beloved genocidal p**** of a god.

Ooooh, U got me really confused....simply with this- your supernatural words beyond English Grammar perhaps THEIR is so supernatural that only the SUPREME intelligence of the GREATEST I AM USA can comprehend!

Comprehende?

Atheists are more sane than theists.

Mate..on that side of the pond ALL of you need to return to eat more greens and vegetables in general - generations of fried chicken has clearly made MOST of you dumb fuks. (atheist & theist) - stupidity seems to show no definitive boundary.

Prove me wrong by argument.

C above. U R doooopid.

Regards
DL

Rear Guards
- atto