Religion is Man- Made

[RCSaunders]

You do realise that dying is a verb - in other words you are stating that you were dying prior to being born. Thus, suggesting you were reborn.

Is English not your first language?

Obviously, Mercurian is my prime langauge.

"Dying," is not a verb, it is a gerund, that is, a verb form used as a noun. "Reverting," is another gerund. The semicolon makes the two clauses balanced and essentially says the action identified by the gerund, "dying," is the same as the action identified by the gerund, "reverting," but the action is the whole gerund phrase, "reverting to what I was before I was born." You are welcome for that free English lesson.

Thank u so much.

Just how much beyond me do you understand about the nature of the reality, indeed physics at its sub-atomic scale - to be certain of that?

Certain of what? Since there is virtually no evidence whatsoever or anything else, why would I doubt it?

Well, Einstein was at the least perplexed by it at the quantum level – quantum entanglement for example. What intrigues me is comments from the likes of yourself that appears certain that the death of the body we inhabit denotes the death of any potential for further consciousness especially where the realm of sub-atomic reality appears to be beyond your thought. I think it was the physcist Sean Caroll that stated that if ANYONE states they understand quantum physics, they are lying.

To what degree of certainty do you place that you were never alive prior to you current existence?

Why? You just stated that you love life. For what reason would one be a fool or an idiot if given the choice, to live life again?

I already answered that question:

There is something insidiously evil about desiring the untrue or impossible. It is a foundation of all mystic ideologies and Utopian social/political views. I love real life which is worth making every effort to make the most of, which more than fulfills any possible desire for what life is and can be. Only those who know they have completely failed in living the one life they have long for another one.

It's similar to the mistake G. B. Shaw referred to about those who love women wine:

He who desires a lifetime of happiness with a beautiful woman desires to enjoy the taste of wine by keeping his mouth always full of it.
The most intolerable pain is produced by prolonging the keenest pleasure.

Those who have lived and fully enjoyed their life could never be but dissappointed in another. Dostoeveksy's hero asks at the end of, "White Nights," "My God, on moment of ecstasy, why is that not enough for a life time?" The answer is, it is.

It never ceases to amaze and indeed bore me, when people of some acedemia rely on others’ thoughts to address or at least attempt to support their own.

I have fought for my life, and now I embrace the sip of a nice wine, or the embrace of a charming lady.

As far as I am concerned, you still have not addressed Y you would prefer to be dead for the rest of eternity rather than have such an experience again.

Well, don't worry about it. You don't need to understand it. If you want to believe in another life, that's nothing to me.

I'm just not going to waste any of this life in pursuit of something for which I have no reason whatsoever to think might be. I'll spend my time making the most of the life I know I have now. If I'm wrong, the new life I never expected will just be a bonus.

[attofishpi]

ok, and i understand wanting you in your pursuit of making the most this one (life).

...but still, and since you mention 'bonus' ..that appears to contradict your previous statment(s)

[Dontaskme]

There is no knowledge outside of your own man-made knowing.

There is no knowing outside of your own man-made knowledge.

There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness.

That should tell you all you need to know about what you know.


In other words, knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of reality, in that reality knows nothing of it's conception except in this conception.

If you insist on making up conceptual stories about it then just be aware that your story will NEVER touch actual reality.

And that's why animals never built churches of worship. That stupidity was reserved for the hairless ape.

[Belinda]

DontAskMe wrote:

There is no knowledge outside of your own man-made knowing.

There is no knowing outside of your own man-made knowledge.

There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness.

That should tell you all you need to know about what you know.

What it tells me is the enormous vanity of men who think like that.

[Dontaskme]

DontAskMe wrote:

There is no knowledge outside of your own man-made knowing.

There is no knowing outside of your own man-made knowledge.

There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness.

That should tell you all you need to know about what you know.

What it tells me is the enormous vanity of men who think like that.

It’s nothing to do with vanity…it’s a factual realisation. Nothing can be known except your own conceptual knowing.
It’s not like you can be anything other than your own mind. It’s not like you can know cat consciousness or elephant consciousness.

.

[FrankGSterleJr]

I sometimes think Jesus must be spinning in heaven knowing what atrocious behavior has been connected to the faith by way of very-bad-example institutional Christians. So many theists have created God’s nature in their own angry and vengeful image, especially the part insisting that ‘God hates ______’, etcetera. (Personally, I picture Jesus as being one who’d enjoy a belly-shaking laugh over a good, albeit clean, joke with his disciples, now and then.)

I can picture them generally finding inconvenient, if not annoying, having to try reconciling the conspicuously contradictory fundamental nature, teachings and practices of the New Testament’s Jesus with those of the wrathful, vengeful and even jealous nature of the Old Testament's Creator.
I further wonder whether the general human need for retributive justice can be intrinsically linked to the same terribly flawed aspect of humankind that enables the most horrible acts of violent cruelty to readily occur on this planet, perhaps not all of which we learn about.

Meanwhile, when a public person openly fantasizes about world peace, a guaranteed minimum income and/or a clean, pristinely green global environment, many ‘Christians’ reactively presume he/she must therefore be Godless thus evil or, far worse, a socialist. This, despite Christ's own teachings epitomizing the primary component of socialism — do not hoard morbidly superfluous wealth when so very many people have little or nothing. Sometimes I wonder whether there are institutional Christians who would prefer that Jesus had not been so publicly contrary to contemporary conservative values thus politics. I’d suggest they might seek out a faith that’s more reflective of their own true values and behavior.

[Belinda]

DontAskMe wrote:

There is no knowledge outside of your own man-made knowing.

There is no knowing outside of your own man-made knowledge.

There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness.

That should tell you all you need to know about what you know.

What it tells me is the enormous vanity of men who think like that.

It’s nothing to do with vanity…it’s a factual realisation. Nothing can be known except your own conceptual knowing.
It’s not like you can be anything other than your own mind. It’s not like you can know cat consciousness or elephant consciousness.

.

It is true that I can have immediate knowledge only of my own body and what it feels through my organs of special sense such as sight, hearing, touch etc.
It is also true that I can't know cat consciousness or elephant consciousness.

But is does not follow from these facts that "There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness" .Your word "higher" is what I object to, because it is vanity to presume that men are morally superior to other animals, plants, or even automata. There is plenty of evidence men are morally inferior to elephants, rats, or any other known entities. Even coronaviruses don't willingly torture.

[Dontaskme]

But is does not follow from these facts that "There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness" .Your word "higher" is what I object to, because it is vanity to presume that men are morally superior to other animals, plants, or even automata. There is plenty of evidence men are morally inferior to elephants, rats, or any other known entities. Even coronaviruses don't willingly torture.

I never once mentioned humans being superior to other animals. That's your idea not mine. I know you like going off on a tangent Belinda.

To clarify, I have used the word ''higher awareness'' in the context of the threads religious theme.

( Higher consciousness is the consciousness of a god or "the part of the human mind that is capable of transcending animal instincts" )

I'm talking about KNOWLEDGE ... NOT animal awareness, lets be clear and straight about this.

Humans refuse to accept their animal nature, and this is due to the illusory dual nature of knowledge.

[attofishpi]

I sometimes think Jesus must be spinning in heaven knowing what atrocious behavior has been connected to the faith by way of very-bad-example institutional Christians. So many theists have created God’s nature in their own angry and vengeful image, especially the part insisting that ‘God hates ______’

Precisely - in the US these people of Evangelical ""Churches"" - more auditoriums than actual churches (made of STONE), are out there with placards and with their children with GOD HATES XXXXX.

Fucking disgusting. In total contradiction to what my Lord Christ went to his death for.

[attofishpi]

A quest.ion one might ask when considering Christ, the one interfaced to the system that generates out reality, is on the one hand 'He' can turn water into wine...but 'He' can also turn man into swine.



...so I at least insist, be worth.Y

He did what He did.

[Lacewing]

I sometimes think Jesus must be spinning in heaven knowing what atrocious behavior has been connected to the faith by way of very-bad-example institutional Christians. So many theists have created God’s nature in their own angry and vengeful image, especially the part insisting that ‘God hates ______’, etcetera. (Personally, I picture Jesus as being one who’d enjoy a belly-shaking laugh over a good, albeit clean, joke with his disciples, now and then.)

I can picture them generally finding inconvenient, if not annoying, having to try reconciling the conspicuously contradictory fundamental nature, teachings and practices of the New Testament’s Jesus with those of the wrathful, vengeful and even jealous nature of the Old Testament's Creator.
I further wonder whether the general human need for retributive justice can be intrinsically linked to the same terribly flawed aspect of humankind that enables the most horrible acts of violent cruelty to readily occur on this planet, perhaps not all of which we learn about.

Meanwhile, when a public person openly fantasizes about world peace, a guaranteed minimum income and/or a clean, pristinely green global environment, many ‘Christians’ reactively presume he/she must therefore be Godless thus evil or, far worse, a socialist. This, despite Christ's own teachings epitomizing the primary component of socialism — do not hoard morbidly superfluous wealth when so very many people have little or nothing. Sometimes I wonder whether there are institutional Christians who would prefer that Jesus had not been so publicly contrary to contemporary conservative values thus politics. I’d suggest they might seek out a faith that’s more reflective of their own true values and behavior.

Good post. I've thought the same things. So much of Christianity has been (and continues to be) manipulated and distorted for clearly self-serving purposes by many. I find it fascinating, actually, that those who are most vocal in claiming to know (or speak for) 'God', often demonstrate all that Christianity warns against. It appears that they, more than non-theists, are being cast (by themselves or others) to personify and carry out their own dark predictions and warnings.

I wonder if this shows the power and extent of belief in manifesting its own reality... like a great epic drama on a stage. And if fueled by ego, it can become quite twisted, indeed!

[Belinda]

But is does not follow from these facts that "There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness" .Your word "higher" is what I object to, because it is vanity to presume that men are morally superior to other animals, plants, or even automata. There is plenty of evidence men are morally inferior to elephants, rats, or any other known entities. Even coronaviruses don't willingly torture.

I never once mentioned humans being superior to other animals. That's your idea not mine. I know you like going off on a tangent Belinda.

To clarify, I have used the word ''higher awareness'' in the context of the threads religious theme.

( Higher consciousness is the consciousness of a god or "the part of the human mind that is capable of transcending animal instincts" )

I'm talking about KNOWLEDGE ... NOT animal awareness, lets be clear and straight about this.

Humans refuse to accept their animal nature, and this is due to the illusory dual nature of knowledge.

But you can't know that humans know more (i.e. have more knowledge ) than other animals. It's true that humans have specialised thinking abilities, but then so have other animals in their own ways.

[Dontaskme]

But is does not follow from these facts that "There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness" .Your word "higher" is what I object to, because it is vanity to presume that men are morally superior to other animals, plants, or even automata. There is plenty of evidence men are morally inferior to elephants, rats, or any other known entities. Even coronaviruses don't willingly torture.

I never once mentioned humans being superior to other animals. That's your idea not mine. I know you like going off on a tangent Belinda.

To clarify, I have used the word ''higher awareness'' in the context of the threads religious theme.

( Higher consciousness is the consciousness of a god or "the part of the human mind that is capable of transcending animal instincts" )

I'm talking about KNOWLEDGE ... NOT animal awareness, lets be clear and straight about this.

Humans refuse to accept their animal nature, and this is due to the illusory dual nature of knowledge.

But you can't know that humans know more (i.e. have more knowledge ) than other animals. It's true that humans have specialised thinking abilities, but then so have other animals in their own ways.

I never said humans know more. Or have more knowledge than animals. Humans can’t know what animals know, they can only know what they know.

I said humans can only know what they know with the knowledge that is available to them.

They cannot possibly know more than what they know. I’m not talking about the none- talking animals. Why do you keep bringing them into this discussion about human knowledge?

I’m particularly talking about claims such as knowledge of God… which is simply a false claim. Unless one is God.

[Belinda]

I never once mentioned humans being superior to other animals. That's your idea not mine. I know you like going off on a tangent Belinda.

To clarify, I have used the word ''higher awareness'' in the context of the threads religious theme.

( Higher consciousness is the consciousness of a god or "the part of the human mind that is capable of transcending animal instincts" )

I'm talking about KNOWLEDGE ... NOT animal awareness, lets be clear and straight about this.

Humans refuse to accept their animal nature, and this is due to the illusory dual nature of knowledge.

But you can't know that humans know more (i.e. have more knowledge ) than other animals. It's true that humans have specialised thinking abilities, but then so have other animals in their own ways.

I never said humans know more. Or have more knowledge than animals. Humans can’t know what animals know, they can only know what they know.

I said humans can only know what they know with the knowledge that is available to them.

They cannot possibly know more than what they know. I’m not talking about the none- talking animals. Why do you keep bringing them into this discussion about human knowledge?

I’m particularly talking about claims such as knowledge of God… which is simply a false claim. Unless one is God.

DAM, you claimed:

There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness.

I am objecting to that claim because other centres of awareness, for instance the centre of awareness of a rat, may for all we can know be "higher" than that of a man. The knowledge that a rat has may, for all we can know, be more than the knowledge a man has.

[Dontaskme]

But you can't know that humans know more (i.e. have more knowledge ) than other animals. It's true that humans have specialised thinking abilities, but then so have other animals in their own ways.

I never said humans know more. Or have more knowledge than animals. Humans can’t know what animals know, they can only know what they know.

I said humans can only know what they know with the knowledge that is available to them.

They cannot possibly know more than what they know. I’m not talking about the none- talking animals. Why do you keep bringing them into this discussion about human knowledge?

I’m particularly talking about claims such as knowledge of God… which is simply a false claim. Unless one is God.

DAM, you claimed:

There is no awareness of any awareness higher than human sentient awareness.

I am objecting to that claim because other centres of awareness, for instance the centre of awareness of a rat, may for all we can know be "higher" than that of a man.

But I’m not talking about rat awareness.

I’m talking about human awareness..we can’t know if there is any awareness higher than our own.
Why I’ve mentioned the word “ higher “ is because of the false claims made by religion freaks who claim the bible is not man- made, rather they claim it’s from a higher power, namely God.

And I’m saying that’s bullshit, for there’s no knowledge of any awareness that is higher than basic human knowledge. In other words, the bible was not from a higher place, it was from the awareness of man.

I’m not saying human awareness is the highest..I’m saying we cannot know if there is any higher awareness outside of our own awareness.

You’ve obviously mistakenly thought I meant human awareness was the highest, but I’m not saying that if you read carefully.

Is there an awareness higher than human awareness? We simply cannot know that.