Religion is Man- Made

[Age]

I think, down the road, we'll have a more accurate, more clear, understanding of what matter is, and I think we'll find matter, clear on down to the quantum level, isn't spooky or indeterminate or illusory. I think we'll find our intuitive understandings of matter as real, with substance, are true.

Our attention, then, will turn to, as as Flew said, natural laws (as in why is there a set, this set, of rules for how matter works?), (the) impossibility of providing a naturalistic account of the origin of the first reproducing organisms, and the conundrum of intelligently organized and purpose-driven beings...(arising) from (inanimate) matter.

There was NO "first reproducing organism". The organism known as the Universe, or Life, or Existence is the ALWAYS creating AND evolving, reproducing Organism, Itself.

This question of intelligently organized and purpose-driven beings will sit before us, as it doesn't currently do. And we'll find the question is really the question of mind, which is really the question of soul.

ALREADY ANSWERED, and thus ALREADY KNOWN.

Science will take us where scientists fear to tread: the land of why (why is there a universe [this universe]?; why is there animate matter [life]?; why is some animate matter self-directing, self-aware [persons]?).

ALREADY ANSWERED, and thus ALREADY KNOWN.

I think we'll find that we've always had all the evidence we need in our immediate experience to answer these questions and that only a deliberate refusal to “look” is responsible for atheism and and unforgiving materialism of any variety.

And as I have ALREADY BEEN SAYING and EXPLAINING, thee ACTUAL Truth of things is HERE-NOW before ALL of 'you' to RECOGNIZE, SEE, and UNDERSTAND. All you have to do to SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of things is just LOOK AT through and from thee Truly OPEN Mind.

Science and philosophy will make a lovely child together and we'll call it wisdom.

[Age]

All those who call attention to their, "atheism," seem to hold their beliefs in the same way as theists

Well, some Theists. And there may well be reasonable Atheists around, who just don't know the relevant arguments. The thing is, there really isn't a reason not to know them, with so many great writers working this topic these days.

You, adult human beings, are STILL 'trying to' FIGHT that your OWN "side" is the Right "side", which is BEYOND A JOKE now, to 'me'.

Are 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, STILL under the ILLUSION that ANY of those, so called, "arguments" are even worth repeating?

The ONLY 'arguments' worthy of being repeated are the ones that are sound AND valid. This is because they are the ONLY ones that are IRREFUTABLE.

If ANY, so called, "argument" can be REFUTED, then WHY even bother repeating it?

I won't be reading the book.

That's too bad. It's a good read, whatever your perspective.

If there is ANY thing in that book that IS IRREFUTABLE, then what EXACTLY is that?

[Age]

All those who call attention to their, "atheism," seem to hold their beliefs in the same way as theists

Well, some Theists. And there may well be reasonable Atheists around, who just don't know the relevant arguments. The thing is, there really isn't a reason not to know them, with so many great writers working this topic these days.

I won't be reading the book.

That's too bad. It's a good read, whatever your perspective.

There is one thing they all, theists and atheists, have in common. That is the belief that it is excruciatingly important that others share their views, and they spend inordinate amounts of time and energy evangelizing, trying to convince others.

VERY GOOD observation and POINT.

I really do not care that they do and certainly support their freedom to do so, but it is a common trait, and I think a mistake. No one has to listen to them or read their books, however.

But WHY even bother 'trying to' FIGHT for 'that' what can NOT be won?

WHY even bother 'trying to' ARGUE for 'that' what can be REFUTED anyway?

Whenever I learn about some new idea, philosophy, or ideology, which at my age doesn't happen very often any more, the first thing I notice is if it is simply explained in terms anyone can understand and supported by evidence anyone can examine or is it being promoted and propagandized. Over the years I've learned, the truth doesn't have to be promoted. No advertising campaigns, debates, and programs are required to convince others heavier than air flight is possible, or that the periodic table of the elements is correct, or that lasers are possible, and that anesthetics work. The converse is also usually true. Any idea or ideology that cannot stand on its own but must be promoted with programs and propaganda is probably not true.

That is why saying thee actual Truth of things can be clearly seen, and known, almost immediately, with and through thee one and only truly open Mind, which stands on Its own and can not be refuted in anyway whatsoever.

[Age]

There is one thing they all, theists and atheists, have in common. That is the belief that it is excruciatingly important that others share their views, and they spend inordinate amounts of time and energy evangelizing, trying to convince others.

You mean like writing long opinion papers and referring people to them all the time?

No. If you review all my posts you'll find I make it point to assure those who read my comments, I'm not interested in convincing anyone or their agreement. I'm delighted to answer questions, because I assume those asking are interested, and when the answers require a little more than a 30-words-or-less explanation, I'll refer to more complete answers for those interested.

I have no interest in promoting any view or ideology, and changing anyone else's mind. I only write for those who might find some value or interest in what I know. That includes pointing out the perpetual parade of absurdities by philosophers, academics, and various ideologists. I enjoy exposing their lies and falsehoods, not to change anyone else's views, but to entertain those who share that understanding.

I suggest that if you want to, and enjoy, exposing what you PERCEIVE to be lies and falsehoods, then you have the ACTUAL PROOF before you even START exposing your OWN personal views. That way you will not be SEEN as being SO Wrong, SO OFTEN.

[Age]

Yes, but "consciousness" is not a lone property. It's always "consciousness OF something," and that something is some reality that is certainly not merely linguistic.

No, thats not actually true.
There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything - and, there is also no thing to be conscious of - yet, there still is "consciousness" - but it is without any opposite.
This "state" could be compared to deep sleep, yet without "loosing" consciousness - there are no sense impression, there is no thought, yet consciousness is.
Once this "state" has been experienced it is perfectly clear that consciousness does not belong to a thing or being (meaning: it is perfectly clear that a human being does not have its own, individual consciousness), yet, our conceptual interpretations of conscious experience seem to describe the exact opposite: "I have consciousness" is a normal statement, understood by most humans, yet, it is (at least based on the experience of pure consciousness - and when properly investigated, also for our normal waking mode of experiencing reality) not correct.

When you understand Consciousness, Itself, FULLY, then you will start to begin to EXPLAIN who and what Consciousness IS, and 'I' AM, EXACTLY?

[Age]

There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything - and, there is also no thing to be conscious of - yet, there still is "consciousness" - but it is without any opposite.

Do you often have this experience? My Father had it before he died. It's call lewy body dementia. You really ought to see someone about it. It's fatal.

Here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of a human being who BELIEVES is better than ANOTHER.

You made the CLAIM that you enjoy exposing others lies and falsehoods, not to change anyone else's views, but to entertain those who share that understanding.

Yet you are completely and utterly INCAPABLE of PROVIDING PROOF for your own BELIEFS and CLAIMS.

All you are REALLY doing here is GAINING "support" by those who have and hold the SAME BELIEFS as YOURS, by just attempting to RIDICULE "others" with opposing views.

'you', "rcsaunders", are a PERFECT EXAMPLE of those who BELIEVE that they KNOW what is true, right, and correct, but the ONLY WAY you can MAINTAIN this ABSOLUTELY DISTORTED view is just through BELITTLING and RIDICULING of thee "other".

I suggest KEEP 'trying', and let 'us' SEE where 'you' actually end up.

[Dubious]

Well the ideas are stupid, not the person, the ideas are idiotic, not the person,

No, sometimes people can be stupid: but even stupid people sometimes, by accident, strike on a good idea. And sometimes smart people say dumb things. So it's never the person, always the argument, that matters.

...quite true. But in the long run it's the arguments one makes which reflects the person. You've had a very long run on every devious maneuver it's possible to make, including a very long history of avoiding any pertinent arguments you find difficult to respond to. In a case such as yours and those like you, ad homs become truth statements.

[AlexW]

There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything - and, there is also no thing to be conscious of - yet, there still is "consciousness" - but it is without any opposite.

Do you often have this experience? My Father had it before he died. It's call lewy body dementia. You really ought to see someone about it. It's fatal.

A bit strange that you can still joke about it even your father died from it…. By the way, my father died from Dementia as well… wasn’t a joking matter though… (but maybe that’s how you react when you have nothing intelligent to say… maybe better not say anything at all?)

Tennyson said of his mystical experience (in a letter to the prominent 19th century physicist Professor John Tyndall), “By God Almighty! there is no delusion in the matter! It is no nebulous ecstasy, but a state of transcendent wonder, associated with absolute clearness of mind.”
And:
“the individuality itself seemed to dissolve and fade away into boundless being; and this not a confused state, but the clearest of the clearest, the surest of the surest, the weirdest of the weirdest, utterly beyond words, where death was an almost laughable impossibility, the loss of personality (if so it were) seeming no extinction, but the only true life…”

Do you think Tennyson had dementia as well?

[Immanuel Can]

Yes, but "consciousness" is not a lone property. It's always "consciousness OF something," and that something is some reality that is certainly not merely linguistic.

There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything

That's "unconsciousness."

[AlexW]

Yes, but "consciousness" is not a lone property. It's always "consciousness OF something," and that something is some reality that is certainly not merely linguistic.

There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything

That's "unconsciousness."

Maybe you should read the whole post….

[Immanuel Can]

...in the long run it's the arguments one makes which reflects the person.

But the person remains irrelevant to the argument. So reject the person, fine: but the argument stands or falls on its own feet.

[Immanuel Can]

There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything

That's "unconsciousness."

Maybe you should read the whole post….

Yeah, I did.

[AlexW]

That's "unconsciousness."

Maybe you should read the whole post….

Yeah, I did.

And apparently didn’t understand it… no problem.

[Age]

There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything - and, there is also no thing to be conscious of - yet, there still is "consciousness" - but it is without any opposite.

Do you often have this experience? My Father had it before he died. It's call lewy body dementia. You really ought to see someone about it. It's fatal.

A bit strange that you can still joke about it even your father died from it…. By the way, my father died from Dementia as well… wasn’t a joking matter though… (but maybe that’s how you react when you have nothing intelligent to say… maybe better not say anything at all?)

Tennyson said of his mystical experience (in a letter to the prominent 19th century physicist Professor John Tyndall), “By God Almighty! there is no delusion in the matter! It is no nebulous ecstasy, but a state of transcendent wonder, associated with absolute clearness of mind.”
And:
“the individuality itself seemed to dissolve and fade away into boundless being; and this not a confused state, but the clearest of the clearest, the surest of the surest, the weirdest of the weirdest, utterly beyond words, where death was an almost laughable impossibility, the loss of personality (if so it were) seeming no extinction, but the only true life…”

Do you think Tennyson had dementia as well?

The reason WHY the 'individuality', the 'personality, or the 'person', seems to dissolve is because 'they', literally, do. Because of what these things ACTUALLY ARE, which is just the 'thoughts' (and emotions), within the body, when 'thinking' STOPS, then there is ONLY a PURE and CLEAR view of things. Which is EXACTLY where thee ACTUAL Truth of things LIE.

The dissolving individual, which allows thee True and CLEAR Picture to appear, is WHY sayings like; 'letting go' exist.

[Age]

Yes, but "consciousness" is not a lone property. It's always "consciousness OF something," and that something is some reality that is certainly not merely linguistic.

There is a "state" of pure consciousness where there is no one left to be conscious of anything

That's "unconsciousness."

And HOW to SEE thee ACTUAL True Picture of Life, Itself, ALWAYS lays within the 'unconsciousness', of the human being. That is; UNTIL that knowledge of HOW is REVEALED, and becomes CONSCIOUSLY KNOWN, which is then SHARED.