Understanding the religious mindset

[seeds]

And yes, it applies to any rigid mindset... such as anything that someone does/thinks religiously or in an addicted or hypnotic manner.

Including short sighted mindsets - ATHEISM.

I don't know that "not believing in something" is a mindset, nor short-sighted.

Ah, but by sheer unspoken default, atheists do indeed believe in something. They believe in the "chance hypothesis."

In some cases they actually believe (again, by default) that the chaotic (post Big Bang) fabric of reality somehow managed -- via the blind and mindless processes of chance and serendipity -- to form itself into a context of order that defies our comprehension.

Either that, or some are so desperate to distance themselves from the silly depictions of God handed down to us in the world's religions that they are willing to entertain the absurd possibility that everything we understand reality to be could be nothing more than a "computer simulation" created by an advanced alien civilization.

The point is that atheism is indeed a "mindset" just like all the rest, and the "...not believing in something..." defense offered by atheists comes with some unspoken (yet profound) implications.
_______

[Atla]

Including short sighted mindsets - ATHEISM.

I don't know that "not believing in something" is a mindset, nor short-sighted.

Ah, but by sheer unspoken default, atheists do indeed believe in something. They believe in the "chance hypothesis."

In some cases they actually believe (again, by default) that the chaotic (post Big Bang) fabric of reality somehow managed -- via the blind and mindless processes of chance and serendipity -- to form itself into a context of order that defies our comprehension.

Either that, or some are so desperate to distance themselves from the silly depictions of God handed down to us in the world's religions that they are willing to entertain the absurd possibility that everything we understand reality to be could be nothing more than a "computer simulation" created by an advanced alien civilization.

The point is that atheism is indeed a "mindset" just like all the rest, and the "...not believing in something..." defense offered by atheists comes with some unspoken (yet profound) implications.
_______

There is always belief, but theists are just bad at math. The chance of our universe happening is unfathomably low, it defies all comprehension. But the chance of a universe-creating God happening is even unfathomably lower than that.

[Lacewing]

Ah, but by sheer unspoken default, atheists do indeed believe in something. They believe in the "chance hypothesis."

I don't know that that's true. I don't necessarily think that what is manifested, or what we're experiencing, is by chance. It seems to me that there is awareness and perfection... perhaps moving throughout all. Rather than making up static stories and religions, it seems useful (to me) to be open to the naturally divine, dynamically flowing, in every present moment.

The point is that atheism is indeed a "mindset" just like all the rest

I'm not sure how. Atheists are not typically following beliefs of anything in particular. What they share in common is a lack of the beliefs of theism. That's no different than nearly all human beings sharing a lack of belief in present-day dinosaurs -- that's not a mindset.

"...not believing in something..." defense offered by atheists comes with some unspoken (yet profound) implications.

Such as??

[seeds]

There is always belief, but theists are just bad at math.

Theists can't be any worse at math than those who misuse it in order to suggest that the reason why our life-friendly universe exists is because there were enough dud universes (perhaps 10^500 of them) that one of them (by sheer statistical chance) had to contain just the right ingredients.

It's just another example of how atheists/materialists are willing to settle for absolutely any ridiculous theory as long as it is far removed from theism.

The chance of our universe happening is unfathomably low, it defies all comprehension. But the chance of a universe-creating God happening is even unfathomably lower than that.

As I have stated elsewhere, to me, how anything whatsoever came into existence (be it mind or matter) is so mysterious that I have often wondered if even God knows the answer (if there is such a Being).

And the point is that I see no difference in the "odds" of either of your propositions, for they both seem impossible (yet, here we are). So which is "more likely" (more logical) when it comes to the manifestation of order?

Now with all of that being said, I cannot help but point out (once again) that - right within our own skulls - we each carry around the Berkeleyan model of what a universe-creating God could possibly be...



In other words, within the closed and subjective arena of our minds we are singular agents of consciousness who can grasp the holographic-like fabric of our very own being and transform it into anything we wish simply by thinking it into existence.

And the only thing I would add to that scenario is my usual crazy assertion that once we awaken into full-consciousness of our minds (via death)...



...we will then be able to access our full potential, as is depicted in yet another of my wacky illustrations...



(For a clearer view of the image, click on the following link and scroll down - http://www.theultimateseeds.com/murmurings.htm)

I guess my point is that seeing how our minds seem to be "models" of the Berkeleyan depiction of God, then why not be open to the possibility that the universe is simply the fully-realized ("adult") version of that which our minds are the models ("embryos") of?

(And, yes, I am clearly guilty of promoting the contents of my own peculiar "mindset." )
_______

[henry quirk]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity

[attofishpi]

I don't know that "not believing in something" is a mindset, nor short-sighted.

Ah, but by sheer unspoken default, atheists do indeed believe in something. They believe in the "chance hypothesis."

In some cases they actually believe (again, by default) that the chaotic (post Big Bang) fabric of reality somehow managed -- via the blind and mindless processes of chance and serendipity -- to form itself into a context of order that defies our comprehension.

Either that, or some are so desperate to distance themselves from the silly depictions of God handed down to us in the world's religions that they are willing to entertain the absurd possibility that everything we understand reality to be could be nothing more than a "computer simulation" created by an advanced alien civilization.

The point is that atheism is indeed a "mindset" just like all the rest, and the "...not believing in something..." defense offered by atheists comes with some unspoken (yet profound) implications.
_______

There is always belief, but theists are just bad at math. The chance of our universe happening is unfathomably low, it defies all comprehension. But the chance of a universe-creating God happening is even unfathomably lower than that.

Really? - in my last maths exam at college - i came top in my class, in fact I only got one question wrong. (but then I was not a theist since I did not believe in God - I had GNOSIS - I had knowledge of its existence.)

You cannot stereotype ALL theists as being of or having the same belief(s) - which is why this thread is ridiculous.

Consider this guy, in fact the Gregorian Calendar still used today was created by THEISTS:-
Christopher Clavius (25 March 1538 – 6 February 1612[1]) was a Jesuit German mathematician and astronomer who was a member of the Vatican commission that accepted the proposed calendar invented by Aloysius Lilius, that is known as Gregorian calendar. Clavius would later write defences and an explanation of the reformed calendar, including an emphatic acknowledgement of Lilius' work. In his last years he was probably the most respected astronomer in Europe and his textbooks were used for astronomical education for over fifty years in and even out of Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Clavius

Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about the above fact in an interview with Joe Rogan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2itlUlD10M
Joe Rogan - Neil deGrasse Tyson "I'm Not an Atheist!!"

I consider the likes of you and most atheists these days of the ilk of "militant atheists" - stemming from the arrogant likes of a Richard Dawkins calling theists deluded. - You appear to be of the ilk that either you believe in science or you believe in God. That is a RIDICULOUS notion.
There are plenty of physicists that ARE theists - that does not mean they are silly enough to believe there was some bloke in some void that spoke everything into existence! - but I am sure you wish that of all theists, since it's easy target practice.

It irks me when I state to people that I am in fact a Christian - since immediately there is a stigma, a stereotype of 'who' I am. (as this thread it attempting to do - put EVERYONE in some same 'loon' basket)

I am not certain that God created the universe itself - all I know without a shadow of doubt is that there is a 3rd party intelligence that is behind the construct of what we perceive as reality, and that entity, and those that have experienced it - people tend to call it GOD.

[Atla]

There is always belief, but theists are just bad at math.

Theists can't be any worse at math than those who misuse it in order to suggest that the reason why our life-friendly universe exists is because there were enough dud universes (perhaps 10^500 of them) that one of them (by sheer statistical chance) had to contain just the right ingredients.

It's just another example of how atheists/materialists are willing to settle for absolutely any ridiculous theory as long as it is far removed from theism.

The chance of our universe happening is unfathomably low, it defies all comprehension. But the chance of a universe-creating God happening is even unfathomably lower than that.

As I have stated elsewhere, to me, how anything whatsoever came into existence (be it mind or matter) is so mysterious that I have often wondered if even God knows the answer (if there is such a Being).

And the point is that I see no difference in the "odds" of either of your propositions, for they both seem impossible (yet, here we are). So which is "more likely" (more logical) when it comes to the manifestation of order?

Now with all of that being said, I cannot help but point out (once again) that - right within our own skulls - we each carry around the Berkeleyan model of what a universe-creating God could possibly be...



In other words, within the closed and subjective arena of our minds we are singular agents of consciousness who can grasp the holographic-like fabric of our very own being and transform it into anything we wish simply by thinking it into existence.

And the only thing I would add to that scenario is my usual crazy assertion that once we awaken into full-consciousness of our minds (via death)...



...we will then be able to access our full potential, as is depicted in yet another of my wacky illustrations...



(For a clearer view of the image, click on the following link and scroll down - http://www.theultimateseeds.com/murmurings.htm)

I guess my point is that seeing how our minds seem to be "models" of the Berkeleyan depiction of God, then why not be open to the possibility that the universe is simply the fully-realized ("adult") version of that which our minds are the models ("embryos") of?

(And, yes, I am clearly guilty of promoting the contents of my own peculiar "mindset." )
_______

If say, 1 in 10^500 worlds can produce little humans who can create computers, then a world which produced a Berkeleyan God is more like 1 in 10^500^500.
All those godly powers need to be implemented somehow in addition to our universe existing, unless everything works by "magic" and all philosophical discourse is pointless.

[Atla]

Ah, but by sheer unspoken default, atheists do indeed believe in something. They believe in the "chance hypothesis."

In some cases they actually believe (again, by default) that the chaotic (post Big Bang) fabric of reality somehow managed -- via the blind and mindless processes of chance and serendipity -- to form itself into a context of order that defies our comprehension.

Either that, or some are so desperate to distance themselves from the silly depictions of God handed down to us in the world's religions that they are willing to entertain the absurd possibility that everything we understand reality to be could be nothing more than a "computer simulation" created by an advanced alien civilization.

The point is that atheism is indeed a "mindset" just like all the rest, and the "...not believing in something..." defense offered by atheists comes with some unspoken (yet profound) implications.
_______

There is always belief, but theists are just bad at math. The chance of our universe happening is unfathomably low, it defies all comprehension. But the chance of a universe-creating God happening is even unfathomably lower than that.

Really? - in my last maths exam at college - i came top in my class, in fact I only got one question wrong. (but then I was not a theist since I did not believe in God - I had GNOSIS - I had knowledge of its existence.)

You cannot stereotype ALL theists as being of or having the same belief(s) - which is why this thread is ridiculous.

Consider this guy, in fact the Gregorian Calendar still used today was created by THEISTS:-
Christopher Clavius (25 March 1538 – 6 February 1612[1]) was a Jesuit German mathematician and astronomer who was a member of the Vatican commission that accepted the proposed calendar invented by Aloysius Lilius, that is known as Gregorian calendar. Clavius would later write defences and an explanation of the reformed calendar, including an emphatic acknowledgement of Lilius' work. In his last years he was probably the most respected astronomer in Europe and his textbooks were used for astronomical education for over fifty years in and even out of Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Clavius

Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about the above fact in an interview with Joe Rogan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2itlUlD10M
Joe Rogan - Neil deGrasse Tyson "I'm Not an Atheist!!"

I consider the likes of you and most atheists these days of the ilk of "militant atheists" - stemming from the arrogant likes of a Richard Dawkins calling theists deluded. - You appear to be of the ilk that either you believe in science or you believe in God. That is a RIDICULOUS notion.
There are plenty of physicists that ARE theists - that does not mean they are silly enough to believe there was some bloke in some void that spoke everything into existence! - but I am sure you wish that of all theists, since it's easy target practice.

It irks me when I state to people that I am in fact a Christian - since immediately there is a stigma, a stereotype of 'who' I am. (as this thread it attempting to do - put EVERYONE in some same 'loon' basket)

I am not certain that God created the universe itself - all I know without a shadow of doubt is that there is a 3rd party intelligence that is behind the construct of what we perceive as reality, and that entity, and those that have experienced it - people tend to call it GOD.

It was a generalization, besides you seem to have become a theist because of schizophrenia.
As for maths, the chance of the universe existing is unfathomably higher than the chance of our universe + a 3rd party intelligence behind it, existing. (Which is not to say that some theists can't happen to be right, it's just unlikely.)

[attofishpi]

There is always belief, but theists are just bad at math. The chance of our universe happening is unfathomably low, it defies all comprehension. But the chance of a universe-creating God happening is even unfathomably lower than that.

Really? - in my last maths exam at college - i came top in my class, in fact I only got one question wrong. (but then I was not a theist since I did not believe in God - I had GNOSIS - I had knowledge of its existence.)

You cannot stereotype ALL theists as being of or having the same belief(s) - which is why this thread is ridiculous.

Consider this guy, in fact the Gregorian Calendar still used today was created by THEISTS:-
Christopher Clavius (25 March 1538 – 6 February 1612[1]) was a Jesuit German mathematician and astronomer who was a member of the Vatican commission that accepted the proposed calendar invented by Aloysius Lilius, that is known as Gregorian calendar. Clavius would later write defences and an explanation of the reformed calendar, including an emphatic acknowledgement of Lilius' work. In his last years he was probably the most respected astronomer in Europe and his textbooks were used for astronomical education for over fifty years in and even out of Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Clavius

Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about the above fact in an interview with Joe Rogan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2itlUlD10M
Joe Rogan - Neil deGrasse Tyson "I'm Not an Atheist!!"

I consider the likes of you and most atheists these days of the ilk of "militant atheists" - stemming from the arrogant likes of a Richard Dawkins calling theists deluded. - You appear to be of the ilk that either you believe in science or you believe in God. That is a RIDICULOUS notion.
There are plenty of physicists that ARE theists - that does not mean they are silly enough to believe there was some bloke in some void that spoke everything into existence! - but I am sure you wish that of all theists, since it's easy target practice.

It irks me when I state to people that I am in fact a Christian - since immediately there is a stigma, a stereotype of 'who' I am. (as this thread it attempting to do - put EVERYONE in some same 'loon' basket)

I am not certain that God created the universe itself - all I know without a shadow of doubt is that there is a 3rd party intelligence that is behind the construct of what we perceive as reality, and that entity, and those that have experienced it - people tend to call it GOD.

It was a generalization, besides you seem to have become a theist because of schizophrenia.
As for maths, the chance of the universe existing is unfathomably higher than the chance of our universe + a 3rd party intelligence behind it, existing. (Which is not to say that some theists can't happen to be right, it's just unlikely.)

As I stated - I don't believe God created the universe, I believe it came about as a result of the universe, but I won't go into that.

As far as "schizophrenia", I think I should let you in on that part of the story.

Since 1997 God\'God' introduced itself to me - in rather fucked up ways - and initially, I would admit - I thought I was losing my mind.

Eventually, I began to 'sus' things out. I am not going to go into all the my experiences in this thread, that to you and anyone reasonable would agree, is beyond 'just my mind manifestations'. I will start a thread soon, and you can take me on there.

I have worked in IT since 1997. In 2017 I worked from a Jap company called NEC - doing support for government contracts.

In one particular week, this 'God' entity started making it clear to me, that it wanted me to continue with my ART project - indeed, it forced me out of work. By the Thursday - all the lettering on my screen started to scramble - and someone in the office would yell out "DO ART" - I called God and Christ every expletive under the sun - I told them under my breath to "FUCK OFF" - then someone across the office yelled out "FUCK OFF" back.
Then flames would shoot across my screen.
Now if you understand the slightest thing about physics and what is plausible in the realm of 'multiple dimensions' - then you would at least understand - and that in an office - nobody yells out loudly FUCK OFF. So I was the only one seeing and experiencing this.
At that point - plus the fact my boss was an incompetent twat - and the fact my house was fully paid off, I decided - fuck this. I told the boss I had a headache and left work. I went to my local doctor GP - and said I was suffering anxiety and needed a week off. - he obliged with a certificate.
I then wrote a letter to NEC to resign - (they required a weeks notice - so I never had to go back)

Eventually, I said to my sage\God (sage introduced himself to me in Nov 2005 - another long story) since they forced me out of work, I need income.

Two days later - a big wad of cash was deposited into my bank account with the title BT PORTFOLIO. (BT is my true initials DO_U_BT? - opposite to FAITH)

Now I was on what here is called Centrelink - claiming govt money - and they required me to keep applying for work otherwise those funds would be cut off. A friend of mine suggested I go see a psychiatrist since they can give 3 month certificates that would keep you from having to look for work.
SO I went to a government free psychiatrist. When I told him of my story since 1997, (ya know hearing a voice(s) seeing stuff out of the norm, and that of someone claiming to be a sage etc..) he said, so you don't think there is anything mentally wrong with you. I said absolutely, to which he replied - I need to put something down on this certificate - to which I replied, well then DEFINE schizophrenia - maybe it's God fucking with peoples lives - and he said, right then, so I'll put that down on the cert quizzing ME if I agreed - I said ya go for it.
But I did add, hang on - so for me to get Centrelink off my back to look for a job each week, I have to take these medications you prescribe - I can't just yack with a psychologist? - he said yeah - U gotta take the meds (LMFAO)

So I continued to paint - didn't have to get up for the morning commute in heavy boring traffic everyday to work some boring job working for morons. I bought a dog, we have nice walks everyday and I do my art, program my website (which is on hold atm), and am writing the sequel to Alpha Two (a cyberpunk novel)
God told me "you are in heaven" - ...who arts in heaven? atto!

So ya, if hearing the voice of God and someone who introduced himself to me in 2005 from aether as a sage, and me basically telling a shrink to write on a certificate that I am a schizo - renders me a schizo to you - the so be it - good luck with your short-sighted atheist stunted life.


So anyway - I got shit loads of money in the bank - I have not yet had an art exhibition

[Age]

I am not certain that God created the universe itself

I am CERTAIN that 'God', literally, created the Universe, Itself. This is because of what 'God' IS, and HOW 'It' ACTUALLY WORKS, EXACTLY.

- all I know without a shadow of doubt is that there is a 3rd party intelligence that is behind the construct of what we perceive as reality, and that entity, and those that have experienced it - people tend to call it GOD.

And, 'that', here called "3rd party intelligence" is just thee One and ONLY Mind, Itself.

Once again, to me, the word:

'God', in the physical and visibly seen sense, just refers to; thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself.

And,

'God', in the spiritual and non visibly seen sense, just refers to; thee One and ONLY Mind, Itself.

This Creator did NOT create Universe in the sense of 'in the past'. God IS, literally, Creating Itself in the HERE and NOW.

The saying, 'In the beginning', just refers to the HERE-NOW, which is the ACTUAL 'beginning' of ALL to come.

Therefore, 'In the beginning, God created the Universe', just refers to the FACT that 'God', the Universe, is creating Itself right HERE, right NOW.

ALL the PROOF needed is, literally, ALWAYS BEFORE ALL of 'you', for ALL to SEE.

[Walker]

Including short sighted mindsets - ATHEISM.

It's a lunch, with leftovers.

What the heck is that supposed to mean?
_______

It’s a rich metaphor leaning literal.

[Age]

Ah, but by sheer unspoken default, atheists do indeed believe in something. They believe in the "chance hypothesis."

I don't know that that's true. I don't necessarily think that what is manifested, or what we're experiencing, is by chance. It seems to me that there is awareness and perfection... perhaps moving throughout all. Rather than making up static stories and religions, it seems useful (to me) to be open to the naturally divine, dynamically flowing, in every present moment.

If you think it seems useful to be OPEN to the naturally divine, dynamically flowing, in ever present moment, then WHY do you NOT try BEING Truly OPEN some time, when LOOKING AT the words under the label of "age", just to SEE what ACTUALLY HAPPENS and OCCURS?

The point is that atheism is indeed a "mindset" just like all the rest

I'm not sure how.

VERY SIMPLY and VERY EASILY by just NOT BELIEVING, that God exists. BELIEVING that God exists has the EXACT SAME effect as NOT BELIEVING (or DISBELIEVING) that God exists. That is BOTH BELIEFS PREVENT and STOP one from BEING ABLE to LOOK AT and SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of things.

Atheists are not typically following beliefs of anything in particular.

This all depends on what definition one has, and is using, for the word 'atheists' here.

'atheists' can be typically following the particular BELIEF that God does NOT exist.

What they share in common is a lack of the beliefs of theism.

And, conversely, it can be said that; what theists share in common is a lack of the beliefs of atheism.

That's no different than nearly all human beings sharing a lack of belief in present-day dinosaurs -- that's not a mindset.

And this is NOT a very good analogy NOR a good example AT ALL.

"A lack of THE beliefs" of "others", is NOT the SAME as "a lack OF belief" of some thing, (which OBVIOUSLY does NOT exist).

"...not believing in something..." defense offered by atheists comes with some unspoken (yet profound) implications.

Such as??

[Age]

There is always belief, but theists are just bad at math.

Theists can't be any worse at math than those who misuse it in order to suggest that the reason why our life-friendly universe exists is because there were enough dud universes (perhaps 10^500 of them) that one of them (by sheer statistical chance) had to contain just the right ingredients.

It's just another example of how atheists/materialists are willing to settle for absolutely any ridiculous theory as long as it is far removed from theism.

The chance of our universe happening is unfathomably low, it defies all comprehension. But the chance of a universe-creating God happening is even unfathomably lower than that.

As I have stated elsewhere, to me, how anything whatsoever came into existence (be it mind or matter) is so mysterious that I have often wondered if even God knows the answer (if there is such a Being).

There is such a Being, and do NOT worry I ALREADY KNOW the ANSWER.

And the point is that I see no difference in the "odds" of either of your propositions, for they both seem impossible (yet, here we are). So which is "more likely" (more logical) when it comes to the manifestation of order?

The FIRST MISTAKE here is ASSUMING that there WAS even a, so called, "beginning" to Everything. The SECOND MISTAKE is BELIEVING that the Universe "began", or was created, from some thing "ELSE".

Now with all of that being said, I cannot help but point out (once again) that - right within our own skulls - we each carry around the Berkeleyan model of what a universe-creating God could possibly be...



In other words, within the closed and subjective arena of our minds we are singular agents of consciousness who can grasp the holographic-like fabric of our very own being and transform it into anything we wish simply by thinking it into existence.

Once 'you' KNOW what and who the 'we' and 'our' words refers to, then 'you' will understand that there is NO "our minds", and what you essentially saying, and meaning, is 'thoughts' instead.

And the only thing I would add to that scenario is my usual crazy assertion that once we awaken into full-consciousness of our minds (via death)...

Once the 'we', human being, or human beings, awaken into FULL-consciousness, then who and what thee Mind ACTUALLY IS, becomes also KNOWN, by the way this can ONLY happen within living bodies, and only with the ability to learn, understand, AND reason.

...we will then be able to access our full potential, as is depicted in yet another of my wacky illustrations...

And this is ABSOLUTELY and VERY True. Because ONLY when one KNOWS its True Self, then than One can HAVE and BE Its FULL POTENTIAL.

'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written, are on the VERY CUSP of reaching, achieving, and transitioning into thee FULL POTENTIAL.

(For a clearer view of the image, click on the following link and scroll down - http://www.theultimateseeds.com/murmurings.htm)

I guess my point is that seeing how our minds seem to be "models" of the Berkeleyan depiction of God, then why not be open to the possibility that the universe is simply the fully-realized ("adult") version of that which our minds are the models ("embryos") of?

If the word 'minds' is just replaced with the word 'thoughts', then this makes much MORE PERFECT SENSE.

By the way, EXACTLY HOW the "devil" deceives is FULLY UNDERSTOOD when how the Mind and the brain (thoughts) work IS KNOWN.

(And, yes, I am clearly guilty of promoting the contents of my own peculiar "mindset." )
_______

Promoting one's own ideas, or thoughts, is PERFECTLY FINE, as long as they are ABLE TO back up and support EVERY thought, and CLAIM, with ACTUAL PROOF.

[Age]

Really? - in my last maths exam at college - i came top in my class, in fact I only got one question wrong. (but then I was not a theist since I did not believe in God - I had GNOSIS - I had knowledge of its existence.)

You cannot stereotype ALL theists as being of or having the same belief(s) - which is why this thread is ridiculous.

Consider this guy, in fact the Gregorian Calendar still used today was created by THEISTS:-
Christopher Clavius (25 March 1538 – 6 February 1612[1]) was a Jesuit German mathematician and astronomer who was a member of the Vatican commission that accepted the proposed calendar invented by Aloysius Lilius, that is known as Gregorian calendar. Clavius would later write defences and an explanation of the reformed calendar, including an emphatic acknowledgement of Lilius' work. In his last years he was probably the most respected astronomer in Europe and his textbooks were used for astronomical education for over fifty years in and even out of Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Clavius

Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about the above fact in an interview with Joe Rogan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2itlUlD10M
Joe Rogan - Neil deGrasse Tyson "I'm Not an Atheist!!"

I consider the likes of you and most atheists these days of the ilk of "militant atheists" - stemming from the arrogant likes of a Richard Dawkins calling theists deluded. - You appear to be of the ilk that either you believe in science or you believe in God. That is a RIDICULOUS notion.
There are plenty of physicists that ARE theists - that does not mean they are silly enough to believe there was some bloke in some void that spoke everything into existence! - but I am sure you wish that of all theists, since it's easy target practice.

It irks me when I state to people that I am in fact a Christian - since immediately there is a stigma, a stereotype of 'who' I am. (as this thread it attempting to do - put EVERYONE in some same 'loon' basket)

I am not certain that God created the universe itself - all I know without a shadow of doubt is that there is a 3rd party intelligence that is behind the construct of what we perceive as reality, and that entity, and those that have experienced it - people tend to call it GOD.

It was a generalization, besides you seem to have become a theist because of schizophrenia.
As for maths, the chance of the universe existing is unfathomably higher than the chance of our universe + a 3rd party intelligence behind it, existing. (Which is not to say that some theists can't happen to be right, it's just unlikely.)

As I stated - I don't believe God created the universe, I believe it came about as a result of the universe, but I won't go into that.

As far as "schizophrenia", I think I should let you in on that part of the story.

Since 1997 God\'God' introduced itself to me - in rather fucked up ways - and initially, I would admit - I thought I was losing my mind.

Eventually, I began to 'sus' things out. I am not going to go into all the my experiences in this thread, that to you and anyone reasonable would agree, is beyond 'just my mind manifestations'. I will start a thread soon, and you can take me on there.

I have worked in IT since 1997. In 2017 I worked from a Jap company called NEC - doing support for government contracts.

In one particular week, this 'God' entity started making it clear to me, that it wanted me to continue with my ART project - indeed, it forced me out of work. By the Thursday - all the lettering on my screen started to scramble - and someone in the office would yell out "DO ART" - I called God and Christ every expletive under the sun - I told them under my breath to "FUCK OFF" - then someone across the office yelled out "FUCK OFF" back.
Then flames would shoot across my screen.
Now if you understand the slightest thing about physics and what is plausible in the realm of 'multiple dimensions' - then you would at least understand - and that in an office - nobody yells out loudly FUCK OFF. So I was the only one seeing and experiencing this.
At that point - plus the fact my boss was an incompetent twat - and the fact my house was fully paid off, I decided - fuck this. I told the boss I had a headache and left work. I went to my local doctor GP - and said I was suffering anxiety and needed a week off. - he obliged with a certificate.
I then wrote a letter to NEC to resign - (they required a weeks notice - so I never had to go back)

Eventually, I said to my sage\God (sage introduced himself to me in Nov 2005 - another long story) since they forced me out of work, I need income.

Two days later - a big wad of cash was deposited into my bank account with the title BT PORTFOLIO. (BT is my true initials DO_U_BT? - opposite to FAITH)

Now I was on what here is called Centrelink - claiming govt money - and they required me to keep applying for work otherwise those funds would be cut off. A friend of mine suggested I go see a psychiatrist since they can give 3 month certificates that would keep you from having to look for work.
SO I went to a government free psychiatrist. When I told him of my story since 1997, (ya know hearing a voice(s) seeing stuff out of the norm, and that of someone claiming to be a sage etc..) he said, so you don't think there is anything mentally wrong with you. I said absolutely, to which he replied - I need to put something down on this certificate - to which I replied, well then DEFINE schizophrenia - maybe it's God fucking with peoples lives - and he said, right then, so I'll put that down on the cert quizzing ME if I agreed - I said ya go for it.
But I did add, hang on - so for me to get Centrelink off my back to look for a job each week, I have to take these medications you prescribe - I can't just yack with a psychologist? - he said yeah - U gotta take the meds (LMFAO)

So I continued to paint - didn't have to get up for the morning commute in heavy boring traffic everyday to work some boring job working for morons. I bought a dog, we have nice walks everyday and I do my art, program my website (which is on hold atm), and am writing the sequel to Alpha Two (a cyberpunk novel)
God told me "you are in heaven" - ...who arts in heaven? atto!

So ya, if hearing the voice of God and someone who introduced himself to me in 2005 from aether as a sage, and me basically telling a shrink to write on a certificate that I am a schizo - renders me a schizo to you - the so be it - good luck with your short-sighted atheist stunted life.


So anyway - I got shit loads of money in the bank - I have not yet had an art exhibition

Do 'you' just refer to the Sage/God as a "he", solely because of your upbringing, or because the Sage/God told 'you' directly that It is a "he"? Or, for some other reason?

[Belinda]

Seeds wrote:

Theists can't be any worse at math than those who misuse it in order to suggest that the reason why our life-friendly universe exists is because there were enough dud universes (perhaps 10^500 of them) that one of them (by sheer statistical chance) had to contain just the right ingredients.

Men will never know whether or not one of the universes "had to contain just the right ingredients".

Either we presume we seek to discover nature as an orderly affair with natural laws, or we presume we are inventing the most appropriate narrative. We will never know the correct attitude to adopt.

As a result we are forced to establish whichever belief gets the best results. The arbiter of what are ' best results' is the more powerful man (who may be an arch criminal, or Genghis Khan). Thus we have to choose whichever sage or prophet or philosopher seems most reliable and that obviously is not the selfish individual. It is reasonable to select the man whose life and work is the least selfish i.e. Jesus. Whether Jesus of Nazareth be mythical fiction or historical truth this man best exemplifies how life is lived so to diminish all known social evils. I.e not the advice or example of the richest or most powerful man but the advice and example of one who lived for ordinary human kindness , and that is the best result.

PS my 'religious mindset' such as it is is a pragmatic mind set.