Obligatory Introduction

[Typist]

Are Texans happier on average than philosophers? It depends on the Texan and the philosopher.

Agreed.

We don't yet have evidence that those who are non-reflective by nature would be happier if they tried to be more philosophical.

It can be proposed that we philosopher types don't really have much to offer non-reflective people, in regards to their personal happiness, a matter of central concern to most of us.

I think non-reflective people see this fact clearly, without the need of philosophy etc.

I am of the belief that people who don't examine their beliefs not only suffer for it, but cause misery to those around them as well.

You are proposing that beliefs are fundamentally logical in nature, and can be improved upon with logic. I am totally sympathetic to this view, because like you, I am also a logic nerd, but...

I propose to you that we too hold our belief for primarily emotional reasons. We were born logic nerds, and would be much more comfortable in the world if everything worked on logic, our personal operating system. Thus we insist the world operates on logic, and should!

Except that it doesn't.

As example, my first post to you was motivated primarily by my emotional need to poke holes in things, and your response was primarily emotional in nature as well. And we are worshippers of logic.

If we read this or any other ideological forum with some clarity, we can see the whole show is fundamentally emotional in nature.

No matter how convincingly someone might destroy the value of philosophy with logic, you and I will always be philosophers. Because that's what feels good to us.

I've had ample experience to reinforce this belief, and in studying environmental ethics, I've found that it can even be applied on a world wide scale.

I would like to hear more about your environmental ethics studies, if you care to share. Sounds interesting. A new thread perhaps?

If you define intellectualism as a means by which you examine your beliefs, then yes, I do think it has a higher value in a universal sense.

And yet, even if we accept your definition of the people of Texas without complaint, we can see they've been getting by just fine for hundreds of years without us.

People are friendly and functional. Some people will beat you with a club for not believing in God. I'm not talking about a difference in taste, and I think you must realize this.

You aren't talking about the people of Texas in any meaningful way, and I think you must realize this.

I'm not saying that I'm better off than anyone else. I'm saying that not stopping and examining your beliefs and assumptions about the world disenfranchises you and the people around you.

Do you perhaps have a friend, family member etc that is thoroughly unphilosophical?

My wife is that way. And unlike me, she would have had the sense not to poke a hole in your opening post. Intellectual abstractions can make us some of us impractical, and as you put it, unpopular.

Sorry to go on like this, but my personal journey involves seeing that I have a knack for logical philosophy stuff, and that it really doesn't matter much. It's like spending a lifetime discovering that you have a talent for jumping up and down on one leg.

[Metadigital]

It can be proposed that we philosopher types don't really have much to offer non-reflective people, in regards to their personal happiness, a matter of central concern to most of us.

I disagree. Though philosophy as an academic trade doesn't need to exist for personal happiness or well being, the reflective and contemplative nature of homo sapien is intrinsically linked with both well being and happiness.

You are proposing that beliefs are fundamentally logical in nature, and can be improved upon with logic. I am totally sympathetic to this view, because like you, I am also a logic nerd, but...

No, I reject that. Just because something is understood doesn't mean it's limited to logic. Logic is a tool in a greater toolbox, but it isn't the entire toolbox. Look at my screen name, for example. No logical nerd would hold such an esoteric handle as that.

No matter how convincingly someone might destroy the value of philosophy with logic, you and I will always be philosophers. Because that's what feels good to us.

If I was convinced that philosophy was harmful to us, I'd have an ethical obligation to oblige. At the same time, that seems paradoxical. doesn't it?

I would like to hear more about your environmental ethics studies, if you care to share. Sounds interesting. A new thread perhaps?

I don't know what I'd say, honestly, it's a vast field of study and there's better things to read about it than what I'm yet capable of.

And yet, even if we accept your definition of the people of Texas without complaint, we can see they've been getting by just fine for hundreds of years without us.

Not true, anti-intellectualism is a somewhat new phenomenon. I'm aware it exists all over America, but it's particularly pronounced in states like Texas. I'm not claiming that the world needs professional academic analytic philosophers, which is the impression you appear to have of me.

You aren't talking about the people of Texas in any meaningful way, and I think you must realize this.

When there's a prevailing attitude against intelligence, what meaningful things could I say about it? You wouldn't believe the reactions people give me when I so much as hint at anything interesting to talk about. For most people here, anything beyond sports, television, and the movies is too controversial or technical for anyone to show interest in. Additionally, topics that border along philosophy at all are literally treated with hostility, and that's a lot of topics.

Do you perhaps have a friend, family member etc that is thoroughly unphilosophical?

Certainly. My in-laws, several friends and acquaintances... my wife struggles sometimes when I talk about certain things, or when I'm trying to use her to help me work out something in my head. She's a computer programmer, though, so the analytical stuff she catches onto fast, that is, up until it breaks down like in Godel's incompleteness theorems or strange things like Heisenberg's uncertainty relations. I don't expect people to be interested in the same pet topics I am, though. At the same time, I like to think I can comment on current events without the threat of violence.

You have to understand the tensions that exist here whenever anything somewhat in debate comes up. I can't even imagine a topic like homosexuality or abortion here, I don't think you could safely talk about it. A professor of mine, and one of his students, was shot in a church for some of the things he said and he wasn't even that edgy. He survived, but his student died in the shooting. I've personally lost two friends within the past year alone just from accidentally offending Christian fundamentalist sensitivities. I didn't even say anything very offensive, I think in both cases it all came down to their blind hatred to evolutionary theory, which is something I don't even push on people.

I'm not sure you grasp exactly how severe it can get in Texas (and other places, I'm aware of that). It's not just that people aren't professional philosophers. I don't care about that. It's that anything that violates the individual's faith (whether religious, scientific, political, or economic) is responded to with violence. It's particularly rough if you happen to be a philosopher, which is why I commented on the state of Texas in my original post.

Sorry to go on like this, but my personal journey involves seeing that I have a knack for logical philosophy stuff, and that it really doesn't matter much. It's like spending a lifetime discovering that you have a talent for jumping up and down on one leg.

I disagree, philosophy has and will continue to influence our relationships with the world around us. Philosophy defined the ancient Greek civilization, supported the Medieval theocracies, it funded the Renaissance, fueled the Enlightenment, and empowered the Industrial Revolution. More recently, it inspired the Digital Age and is working to rethink our basic framework in response to the ecologic crisis brought about by our previous philosophies. I can't imagine a defining characteristic of the human being more powerful than its ability to philosophize.

[Typist]

the reflective and contemplative nature of homo sapien is intrinsically linked with both well being and happiness.

So,the people of Texas, and other non-reflective people, are unhappy? Where is the evidence for this?

No, I reject that. Just because something is understood doesn't mean it's limited to logic. Logic is a tool in a greater toolbox, but it isn't the entire toolbox. Look at my screen name, for example. No logical nerd would hold such an esoteric handle as that.

I bow to the logic of your analysis!

I'm not claiming that the world needs professional academic analytic philosophers, which is the impression you appear to have of me.

Ok, fair enough. I'm just talking about people like you and me. It seems you are too.

When there's a prevailing attitude against intelligence, what meaningful things could I say about it?

Again, intelligence, defined according to your personal preferences.

You wouldn't believe the reactions people give me when I so much as hint at anything interesting to talk about.

Of course I would, I've had the same experience every day of my life. It is the philosopher's fate, as Nikolai said above.

For most people here, anything beyond sports, television, and the movies is too controversial or technical for anyone to show interest in.

That's not people in Texas, it's people everywhere. Most people just aren't interested in ideas.

Certainly. My in-laws, several friends and acquaintances... my wife struggles sometimes when I talk about certain things, or when I'm trying to use her to help me work out something in my head. She's a computer programmer, though,

Oops, disqualified.

At the same time, I like to think I can comment on current events without the threat of violence.

Who are you trying to have these conversations with? People in bars? Strangers on the street? Are you really worried about co-workers punching you in the nose?

I disagree, philosophy has and will continue to influence our relationships with the world around us.

I agree with that. Everybody has a philosophy, including those who think philosophy is silly.

I can't imagine a defining characteristic of the human being more powerful than its ability to philosophize.

The key words there being, you can't imagine.

Now agree with me immediately about the people of Texas, or I'm gonna be a comin to your house to beat the living crap outta ya boy!

[duszek]

People from Texas are overbearing and know all the answers, that has been my impression too, so far.
But can´t you just ask questions in a friendly an inoffensive way and choosing a good moment ?

For example you could ask about the freedom of speech being guaranteed by the American Constitution and are people in Texas not also proud of it ?
And if so, how can they shoot someone who is just expressing an opinion ?

[alma]

I have to say, I enjoyed the discussion that came about from connecting a place to a type of people and a certain way of living/thinking/not thinking. It certainly has been, and still is, a theme in my life.