the limits of fascism

[Skepdick]

Hypocrisy is the greatest of instruments in the game of persuasion.

Ah, Immanuel Can's White Knight. Not intending to accuse you of the very thing I am drawing attention to, I am guessing that it is me you are calling a hypocrite. That being so, if you can show an example of me continuing to ascribe beliefs to IC he denies he holds I shall eat humble pie and apologise. On the other hand, perhaps it is the hypocrisy of IC you are referring to, in which case we are again broadly in agreement, but I don't think hypocrisy is the greatest rhetorical tool.

No, actually. I was merely pointing out the role and necessity of hypocrisy in effective persuasion.

You could also observe that IC embraces his own hypocrisy.

But hey, I won't stop you from projecting your own biases/insecurities onto my words.

[tillingborn]

Hypocrisy is the greatest of instruments in the game of persuasion.

Ah, Immanuel Can's White Knight. Not intending to accuse you of the very thing I am drawing attention to, I am guessing that it is me you are calling a hypocrite. That being so, if you can show an example of me continuing to ascribe beliefs to IC he denies he holds I shall eat humble pie and apologise. On the other hand, perhaps it is the hypocrisy of IC you are referring to, in which case we are again broadly in agreement, but I don't think hypocrisy is the greatest rhetorical tool.

No, actually. I was merely pointing out the role and necessity of hypocrisy in effective persuasion.

Do you have any examples?

You could also observe that IC embraces his own hypocrisy.

I must have missed it. What do you base that assertion on?

But hey, I won't stop you from projecting your own biases/insecurities onto my words.

As I made clear, I am not certain what your words intend, so I remain agnostic. You are absolutely right that I will draw conclusions, simply to fit a developing narrative, but if I take a wrong turn, possibly because of my own biases/insecurities, I am happy to have them corrected. Show me why I am wrong, and I will thank you.

[Skepdick]

As I made clear, I am not certain what your words intend, so I remain agnostic.

My words were intended to be understood in an agnostic and impartial manner.

What you made clear is that you projected intentions onto words that were intended to have none.

[tillingborn]

As I made clear, I am not certain what your words intend, so I remain agnostic.

My words were intended to be understood in an agnostic and impartial manner.

What you made clear is that you projected intentions onto words that were intended to have none.

That is the nature of being a human. We like to compartmentalise and string into narratives. Some of us are prepared to adapt our narratives, others will adapt the facts to fit them. It seems to me that the character you are portraying is a whiney little snark who just likes being a dick. Frankly, everything I have read of yours reinforces that opinion, but I am sure you are a more mature and rounded character in real life.

[Skepdick]

Cancel culture before it was a phrase...

cancel-culture.jpg

[Skepdick]

We like to compartmentalise and string into narratives. Some of us are prepared to adapt our narratives, others will adapt the facts to fit them.

Others (such as myself) will fight tooth and nail to educate people about the narrative fallacy - the narrative top-down/retrospectively (observer point of view) is incredibly different from the narrative bottom-up/prospectively (individual participants' point of view). Unifying those perspectives is not always possible.

But it makes me the odd one out for not needing the narratives in the first place.

Frankly, everything I have read of yours reinforces that opinion, but I am sure you are a more mature and rounded character in real life.

Well, yes. We've had a very very long conversation about confirmation bias and falsification.

To me this is the fundamental distinction between philosophy/politics (confirmation) and science (disconfirmation).

We are on a philosophy forum. I am a scientist. it's only natural that I exploit your confirmation biases against you. I can only imagine Hegel would approve of this thesis/antithesis.

[tillingborn]

We like to compartmentalise and string into narratives. Some of us are prepared to adapt our narratives, others will adapt the facts to fit them.

Others (such as myself) will tooth and nail to point out the narrative fallacy.

You are a hero of the Enlightenment. Yes, it is worth repeating that some people are prepared to adapt our narratives, others will adapt the facts to fit them.

Frankly, everything I have read of yours reinforces that opinion, but I am sure you are a more mature and rounded character in real life.

Well, yes. We've had a very very long conversation about confirmation bias and falsification.

To me this is the fundamental distinction between philosophy/politics (confirmation) and science (disconfirmation).

To me that is just a crude analysis of Popper.

We are on a philosophy forum. I am a scientist. it's only natural that I exploit your confirmation biases against you.

Which of my biases do you think are weaknesses? I mean, fair enough, all biases are weaknesses, but there are some of mine that you have apparently identified that are ripe for exploitation. What can you tell me that I don't already know?

[tillingborn]

Cancel culture before it was a phrase...

Or as I put it:

...the Catholic Index, the burning of witches, unions, music, books and films that have been banned...

[Skepdick]

To me that is just a crude analysis of Popper.

It would be. But since I haven't actually read Popper it's not even an analysis.

It's my own conclusions, and if it agrees with Popper - all the less reason to read him.

Which of my biases do you think are weaknesses?

All the ones you can't suspend on command.

Certainly the ones which prevent you from practicing the principle of charity.

I mean, fair enough, all biases are weaknesses, but there are some of mine that you have apparently identified that are ripe for exploitation.

Yes. Your confirmation biases. I can say things that (given your biases) would make me seem even more "dickish" in your perspective.

It's really useful skill during social distancing, I tell you!

What can you tell me that I don't already know?

There's irony in your question. Scientifically speaking surprise is a measure of new information. Which is precisely the value of disconfirmation - surprising yourself.

If I can't tell you anything you don't already know it sure sounds as if you know everything...

[tillingborn]

I can say things that (given your biases) would make me seem even more "dickish" in your perspective.

There's really no need.

It's really useful skill during social distancing, I tell you!

Honestly, have you noticed a difference?

[Immanuel Can]

But there is actual evidence and historical theory that backs the anti-intellectualism of right wing populism...

Let's suppose that were true; if it were, then what evidence would you have here that "anti-intellectualism," let alone "populism," is involved?

Pseudo- intellectualism is not the converse of anti-intellectualism...

It's a sign of insecurity. It's the indulgence of those with no genuine erudition, who merely self-present as wise, but are devoid of the associated virtues, achievements and/or wisdom. And the Left is both statistically and observationally full of it. (Let's understand the pun here.)

However, neither matters here: my question is, "What do you think of that pattern of argument?"

[tillingborn]

If I can't tell you anything you don't already know it sure sounds as if you know everything...

A joke for you Skepdick: A hunter and a guide were stalking tigers. When they spotted one, the hunter aimed and pulled the trigger. His rifle jammed. At that point the tiger charged and the guide started running. 'Don't be a fool!' said the hunter, 'You'll never outrun a tiger.' 'I don't have to.' said the guide, 'I only have to outrun you.'

[Skepdick]

A joke for you Skepdick: A hunter and a guide were stalking tigers. When they spotted one, the hunter aimed and pulled the trigger. His rifle jammed. At that point the tiger charged and the guide started running. 'Don't be a fool!' said the hunter, 'You'll never outrun a tiger.' 'I don't have to.' said the guide, 'I only have to outrun you.'

Usually, that's when the hunter shoots the guide in the leg...

[Advocate]

[quote=tillingborn post_id=503296 time=1616247823 user_id=7001]
[quote=Skepdick post_id=503289 time=1616246702 user_id=17350]If I can't tell you anything you don't already know it sure sounds as if you know everything...[/quote]A joke for you Skepdick: A hunter and a guide were stalking tigers. When they spotted one, the hunter aimed and pulled the trigger. His rifle jammed. At that point the tiger charged and the guide started running. 'Don't be a fool!' said the hunter, 'You'll never outrun a tiger.' 'I don't have to.' said the guide, 'I only have to outrun you.'
[/quote]

*Advocate waves to everyone from the finish line.*

[Skepdick]

*Advocate waves to everyone from the finish line.*

The spectators (who crossed the finish line a decade ago) cheer him on so as to not diminish his achievement!