the limits of fascism

[Immanuel Can]

Trump's support as a right-winger FOR the fascists:

There are no fascists for them to support. And Trump has denounced the ideology himself. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYqKj9-Ivlo) But it's interesting that you're so preoccupied with a former president...

If there are no fascists, who was Trump condemning?

"Fascists" are "National Socialists." Are you suggesting he was condemning National Socialists? Like Antifa, perhaps?

[tillingborn]

Here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHXL00wY3nY

Ah, now it makes sense; you actually believe the revisionist nonsense of a group calling itself Prager University even though it is an overtly ring wing media company. Even their name is a lie, and you trust them?

[tillingborn]

"Fascists" are "National Socialists." Are you suggesting he was condemning National Socialists? Like Antifa, perhaps?

Fascists are not National Socialists. Mussolini was not a Nazi, nor Franco nor any of the other charmers Europe was plagued with. This is just the sort of silliness that people who lie about their academic credentials will feed to not very bright audiences. The two are not interchangeable.

[Immanuel Can]

Here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHXL00wY3nY

Ah, now it makes sense; you actually believe the revisionist nonsense of a group calling itself Prager University even though it is an overtly ring wing media company. Even their name is a lie, and you trust them?

Their name is ironic, because universities have stopped doing education, and started doing indoctrination. But if you actually knew anything about them, you'd know that.

But that's immaterial here. So which of their facts as given in the video do you think are incorrect?

[Immanuel Can]

"Fascists" are "National Socialists." Are you suggesting he was condemning National Socialists? Like Antifa, perhaps?

Fascists are not National Socialists.

Yeah, that's exactly what they were.

Their name is, in German, "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP)," or in English, "National Socialist German Workers’ Party."

Mussolini was not a Nazi,

He was a Fascist. The term "Fascist" actually comes from the Italian "fasces," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces, referring to the bundle of sticks that symbolized Roman power, actually. As such, it was symbol of the idea of the collective being putatively "stronger" than the individual. And before that, Mussolini was a card-carrying member of the Communist Party. The switch, for him, was a natural one: it was from the Left to the even more extreme Left.

From the start, Fascism, like Communism, has been collectivism and Leftism. Check it out, and you'll see I'm right.

[tillingborn]

...universities have stopped doing education, and started doing indoctrination. But if you actually knew anything about them, you'd know that.

Don't be so ridiculous. Universities are not indoctrinating anyone and if you actually knew anything about them, you'd know that.

[Immanuel Can]

...universities have stopped doing education, and started doing indoctrination. But if you actually knew anything about them, you'd know that.

Don't be so ridiculous.

They are. And if you knew me at all, you'd know I know for sure.

[tillingborn]

"Fascists" are "National Socialists." Are you suggesting he was condemning National Socialists? Like Antifa, perhaps?

Fascists are not National Socialists.

Yeah, that's exactly what they were.

Their name is, in German, "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP)," or in English, "National Socialist German Workers’ Party."

Yeah, the name was ironic, like Prager University. That's the trouble with analytic philosophy, you have to believe words have literal meanings.

Mussolini was not a Nazi,

He was a Fascist. The term "Fascist" actually comes from the Italian "fasces," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces, referring to the bundle of sticks that symbolized Roman power, actually. As such, it was symbol of the idea of the collective being putatively "stronger" than the individual. And before that, Mussolini was a card-carrying member of the Communist Party. The switch, for him, was a natural one: it was from the Left to the even more extreme Left.

The point is he was an extremist. Left or right, they're as bad as each other.

From the start, Fascism, like Communism, has been collectivism and Leftism. Check it out, and you'll see I'm right.

Don't be stupid. There was no suggestion from fascists or nazis that the workers would own the means of production.

[tillingborn]

...universities have stopped doing education, and started doing indoctrination. But if you actually knew anything about them, you'd know that.

Don't be so ridiculous.

They are. And if you knew me at all, you'd know I know for sure.

All I know about you is what you write and as some who I am quite certain knows a lot more about real universities than you do, I know for sure you are talking nonsense. If you are going to make an appeal to authority, at least make it someone who isn't yourself.

[Advocate]

[quote=tillingborn post_id=501386 time=1615420264 user_id=7001]
[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=501384 time=1615418831 user_id=9431]
[quote=tillingborn post_id=501383 time=1615418340 user_id=7001]

Don't be so ridiculous.
[/quote]
They are. And if you knew me at all, you'd know I know for sure.
[/quote]All I know about you is what you write and as some who I am quite certain knows a lot more about real universities than you do, I know for sure you are talking nonsense. If you are going to make an appeal to authority, at least make it someone who isn't yourself.
[/quote]

Academic credentials prove compliance, indicate knowledge, and say nothing of understanding.

[Immanuel Can]

The point is he was an extremist. Left or right, they're as bad as each other.

The problem is that today, the "right wing" is small, weak and essentially unrepresented in politics, the media or public life. Not so the radical Left.

From the start, Fascism, like Communism, has been collectivism and Leftism. Check it out, and you'll see I'm right.

There was no suggestion from fascists or nazis that the workers would own the means of production.

You need to do some historical research. National Socialism and Communist Socialists were bedfellows. They believed in the same economic strategies, and only differed over scope. The Nazis were German nationalist Socialists; the Communists were international Socialists. But Hitler and Stalin started out as allies. And no wonder.

[Immanuel Can]

I know for sure you are talking nonsense.

You know nothing about it, it's apparent. Go and read a copy of something like Pluckrose and Lindsay's Cynical Theories, and you'll see lots of evidence.

[tillingborn]

Academic credentials prove compliance, indicate knowledge, and say nothing of understanding.

And trotting out trite cliches shows compliance with banal platitudes.

[Advocate]

[quote=tillingborn post_id=501393 time=1615421369 user_id=7001]
[quote=Advocate post_id=501387 time=1615420594 user_id=15238]Academic credentials prove compliance, indicate knowledge, and say nothing of understanding.[/quote]And trotting out trite cliches shows compliance with banal platitudes.
[/quote]

Wisdom often seems obvious after it's made explicit. However trite, it's no less true.

[tillingborn]

The problem is that today, the "right wing" is small, weak and essentially unrepresented in politics, the media or public life. Not so the radical Left.

How you describe politics depends very much on your starting point. If you believe that the "right wing" is unrepresented, that is most likely because you are yourself more right wing than the things you complain about.

You need to do some historical research. National Socialism and Communist Socialists were bedfellows. They believed in the same economic strategies, and only differed over scope. The Nazis were German nationalist Socialists; the Communists were international Socialists. But Hitler and Stalin started out as allies. And no wonder.

As I said, extremists on either wing are as bad as each other. Hitler and Stalin had a non-aggression pact, that is not the same as being allies. You need to do some historical research.