Is morality objective or subjective?

[Skepdick]

I can't choose what I feel is good or bad. I'm reporting my dispositions.

Horseshit, you can FEEL a bad disposition towards a belief and still choose it.
You can FEEL a good disposition towards a belief and still not choose it.

Why do you choose your feel-good dispositions over the feel-bad dispositions and not the other way around?

[Belinda]

I agree because I choose that particular frame of understanding.

Personally I can't choose what to believe. What Peter said is the only option that has good reasons for belief. Hence I can't help but believe it.

I can choose what to believe.Are you brain washed that you can't choose what you believe? Or are you perhaps confusing choosing with exercise of Free Will?

[Terrapin Station]

I can't choose what I feel is good or bad. I'm reporting my dispositions.

Horseshit, you can FEEL a bad disposition towards a belief and still choose it.
You can FEEL a good disposition towards a belief and still not choose it.

Maybe you can do this. Why would you insist that other people are just like you are?

[Skepdick]

Maybe you can do this. Why would you insist that other people are just like you are?

I insist nothing of this sort...

Personally I can't choose what to believe. What Peter said is the only option that has good reasons for belief. Hence I can't help but believe it.

Sounds like you are saying that you can't choose to believe that murdering people is good.
Sounds like you can't choose to murder people.

Sounds like your morality is independent from your mind's volition. So... that's like, objective, even by Peter Holmes' definition.

[Terrapin Station]

I agree because I choose that particular frame of understanding.

Personally I can't choose what to believe. What Peter said is the only option that has good reasons for belief. Hence I can't help but believe it.

I can choose what to believe.Are you brain washed that you can't choose what you believe? Or are you perhaps confusing choosing with exercise of Free Will?

Re " perhaps confusing choosing with exercise of Free Will," what distinction are you making there?

[Terrapin Station]

Sounds like you are saying that you can't choose to believe that murdering people is good.

Correct.

Sounds like you can't choose to murder people.

Maybe I could. I don't know. In general, I can choose at least some actions to take, but not beliefs.

Sounds like your morality is independent from your mind's volition

Again, morality is value judgments we make about interpersonal behavior.

[Skepdick]

Again, morality is value judgments we make about interpersonal behavior.

Not according to you.

Your "value judgments" are not judgments of any sort. They are "just the way your brain works" - you have no choice/say in the matter.

[Terrapin Station]

Again, morality is value judgments we make about interpersonal behavior.

Not according to you.

Your "value judgments" are not judgments of any sort. They are "just the way your brain works".

Right. Making a value judgment doesn't hinge on it being a choice. It's a disposition you have.

[Skepdick]

Right. Making a value judgment doesn't hinge on it being a choice. It's a disposition you have.

I don't understand why you are using the word "making" (which has the connotations of autonomy) where it's not up to you to value "good" over "bad" reasons for belief.

YOU are not "making value judgments". Your brain is.

[Terrapin Station]

Right. Making a value judgment doesn't hinge on it being a choice. It's a disposition you have.

I don't understand why you are using the word "making" (which has the connotations of autonomy) where it's not up to you to value "good" over "bad" reasons for belief.

YOU are not "making value judgments". Your brain is.

One is not different than one's brain.

Re "making," it's a dynamic event.

[Skepdick]

One is not different than one's brain.

Are you sure?

Then one's brain should correspond precisely to one's volition.

Choose to believe something for "bad reasons".

If you can.

[Skepdick]

Re "making," it's a dynamic event.

Dynamics implies interaction of parts.

But one is not different than one's brain.

So what parts are interacting exactly?

[Terrapin Station]

One is not different than one's brain.

Are you sure?

Yes.

Then one's brain should correspond precisely to one's volition.

It does. But that doesn't imply that (every) belief can be a choice for every person.

[Terrapin Station]

Re "making," it's a dynamic event.

Dynamics implies interaction of parts.

But one is not different than one's brain.

So what parts are interacting exactly?

The parts of your brain. Your brain isn't an elementary particle, you know.

[Skepdick]

Then one's brain should correspond precisely to one's volition.

It does. But that doesn't imply that (every) belief can be a choice for every person.

Only those beliefs you choose to be choices...

So go ahead and choose to believe something for bad reasons.