STOP THE STEAL; An excercise in Political Performance

[Sculptor]

Outside the Courts, and on public platforms Guiliani claims voter and election fraud. Inside the courts Guilani offers nothing; no evidence.
He tells the judges "This is not a case about fraud."
When he leaves the courts Guiliani claims he's not being heard to the media.

Death threats and sexual threats are heaped on several officials
Crowds and mobs are stirred up.
Give me my 11,000 votes, or else!
Inside the court...Under questioning from a federal judge in Pennsylvania on Tuesday, Mr. Giuliani made a different admission: “This is not a fraud case,” he said.
30 court cases later. ZIP. NADA

So what just happened. A political performance that was an abuse of the 1st Amendment.

For Trump 11 thousand votes would not be enough. His deficit is SIX MILLION.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/us/p ... fraud.html

[Terrapin Station]

I wouldn't say it was an "abuse of the first amendment" (as one could guess), but it demonstrates, as if anyone needed it demonstrated, that marketing/PR spin isn't magic. (Even if it came frighteningly close to it in this case.)

[SpheresOfBalance]

STOP THE STEAL; An excercise in Political Performance

"STOP THE STEAL", said the fools that were fooled! = JUSTICE!

[Sculptor]

I wouldn't say it was an "abuse of the first amendment" (as one could guess), but it demonstrates, as if anyone needed it demonstrated, that marketing/PR spin isn't magic. (Even if it came frighteningly close to it in this case.)

Your entire appraoch to this topic is idiotic.
It's neither practical nor is it workable.
Freedom and security are always a trade-off.
If you give people the freedom to own guns then you have to restrict their freedom to kill neighbours.
Where you become a crackpot is that you think selling guns to known murderers and other criminals does not involve the gun seller in some responsibility.

If people are free to incite violence, and to exhort their followers to wage war on others then the consequence of that is more restrictions on free speech.
Most people understand that.
But then I suppose it is pointless talking to a person who thinks Hitler is innocent of the holocaust.

[Terrapin Station]

Where you become a crackpot is that you think selling guns to known murderers and other criminals does not involve the gun seller in some responsibility.

In other words, you actually do believe that there are correct answers about this stuff.

But their aren't. There are simply different dispositions that people have, different ways that they feel about it.

[commonsense]

Where you become a crackpot is that you think selling guns to known murderers and other criminals does not involve the gun seller in some responsibility.

In other words, you actually do believe that there are correct answers about this stuff.

But their aren't. There are simply different dispositions that people have, different ways that they feel about it.

There are ethical answers and morally bankrupt answers.

[Sculptor]

Where you become a crackpot is that you think selling guns to known murderers and other criminals does not involve the gun seller in some responsibility.

In other words, you actually do believe that there are correct answers about this stuff.

But their aren't. There are simply different dispositions that people have, different ways that they feel about it.

Yes there are answers, as you yourself have your own: you have absolved the instigators of crime any responsibility.
Thankfully the law is clear.
There is an old custom. If you give a person a present of a knife the convention is that you return a small amount of cash.
Because if you give a person a knife that is subsequently used to commit a crime the giver is also implicated.

There are complexities. But blaming Hitler for the holocaust is not problematic, except to an idiot.

[Lacewing]

It is a performance based on lies and fantasy because the only agenda is to "win". The actors do not represent (in any way) the audience they speak/play to. No script is off limits on the stage, rather it's a form of insane improv. Nothing becomes too absurd for such a fantasy. The viewers seeking to lose themselves in it, clamor for more. It's not about truth: truth would require turning on the lights in the theater, and acknowledging it's JUST A SHOW. It is obviously fantasy. But for hardcore fans, they continually repeat lines from the script, and they may protest theaters that close the show. For them, there is nothing else that matters, and broader reality and truth are a threat and must be denied.

Is this what happens to people who watch too many movies?

[Scott Mayers]

I wouldn't say it was an "abuse of the first amendment" (as one could guess), but it demonstrates, as if anyone needed it demonstrated, that marketing/PR spin isn't magic. (Even if it came frighteningly close to it in this case.)

...


If people are free to incite violence, and to exhort their followers to wage war on others then the consequence of that is more restrictions on free speech.
Most people understand that.
But then I suppose it is pointless talking to a person who thinks Hitler is innocent of the holocaust.

The lying that we accept in business circumstances is what leads the strict business conservative to favor the use as 'normal' behavior. This won't stop regardless of the party, though. The Left tends only to STOP at some point by 'censor', often intentionally leaving one uncertain as to whether they hold onto the lie or not. The tactics of the Right disagree with the 'etiquette' by being bold and embrace lying instead.

I was disappointed at how many on MY preferred Left side is demonstrating counter abuses by using the tactic of silencing (or censoring) and given Trump's overt use of lying, now we are in a precarious condition whereby many are now possibly going to embrace the idea of censoring as a norm. I also notice a lot of reverse discriminating behavior I don't approve of. So while I am more 'democratic', I can't support the Left either. In fact, I've argued before that Trump is only a token symbol of the contempory abuses happening everywhere and that the unusual choice of having him elected in the first place was due to the abuses more specifically on the Left, not the Right, because it was default behavior.

Examples of the trend in this century is the Matriarchal form of extreme feminism that opts to simply replace the traditional Patriarchal form of the same logical form but differ on which genetics they believe are more SUPERIOR over the others. The 'matriarchal' here is also a reference to the "identity" politics that embrace DISTINCT status' of people, the increasing oversensitivity of SOME people to interpret abuse as even those 'asserting' (being assertive), to the counterdirect pre-trial accusations of labelled abusers as guilty-before-innocent and demands of faith in absolution to strict subsets of society based upon mere GENETIC classifications (but feigned as 'culture'), and to the increased occurences of SILENT abuses....like preventing those charged and convicted of something beyond the present knowledge of the accused, through censorship that leaves the accused to 'suffer' BY society without them even being necessarily aware of it. It 'Gaslights' them in the same way that the Right adopts in business normally.

I am glad Trump is out. But I knew he was being rhetorical and sincere to the 'business' beliefs we embrace in PRACTICE that those same Billionaires on the Left believe in. The only difference is that those same wealthy on the Left are acting in relative secrecy to their ingroups, cults, races, or sex while believing in using an ettiquette that hides their accountability in means of 'cultural' superiority.

We had to get Trump out. But if we do not recognize these facts that I mentioned and refuse to recognize them nor deal with them, nothing will be resolved. We will just TRADE which abusers get to take his place. I trust that we won't. History has not solved the political contradictions and likely won't. For now, all we'll get is temporary relief up to the point it is too late to notice that we just gave away our individual freedoms to a different FORM of intolerance.

My opinion is that we need to STOP allowing the 'freedom' of businesses to LIE (like advertising, for one), regardless of how trivial it may seem. The alternative is to STOP people from being illogical and anti-relgious to remove appeal for 'faith' and replace it with critical thinking skills founded on logic most specifically...something I doubt will happen until it is most required and far too late.

[Terrapin Station]

Yes there are answers, as you yourself have your own: you have absolved the instigators of crime any responsibility.

There aren't correct/incorrect answers. Just dispositions that people have/attitudes they have about this stuff/ways they feel. It's not possible to have an incorrect (or correct) disposition about this stuff. People simply feel however they do.

[Sculptor]

Yes there are answers, as you yourself have your own: you have absolved the instigators of crime any responsibility.

There aren't correct/incorrect answers. Just dispositions that people have/attitudes they have about this stuff/ways they feel. It's not possible to have an incorrect (or correct) disposition about this stuff. People simply feel however they do.

Stop squirming! It's embarassing.

[Sculptor]

I wouldn't say it was an "abuse of the first amendment" (as one could guess), but it demonstrates, as if anyone needed it demonstrated, that marketing/PR spin isn't magic. (Even if it came frighteningly close to it in this case.)

...


If people are free to incite violence, and to exhort their followers to wage war on others then the consequence of that is more restrictions on free speech.
Most people understand that.
But then I suppose it is pointless talking to a person who thinks Hitler is innocent of the holocaust.

The lying that we accept in business circumstances is what leads the strict business conservative to favor the use as 'normal' behavior. This won't stop regardless of the party, though. The Left tends only to STOP at some point by 'censor', often intentionally leaving one uncertain as to whether they hold onto the lie or not. The tactics of the Right disagree with the 'etiquette' by being bold and embrace lying instead.

I was disappointed at how many on MY preferred Left side is demonstrating counter abuses by using the tactic of silencing (or censoring) and given Trump's overt use of lying, now we are in a precarious condition whereby many are now possibly going to embrace the idea of censoring as a norm. I also notice a lot of reverse discriminating behavior I don't approve of. So while I am more 'democratic', I can't support the Left either. In fact, I've argued before that Trump is only a token symbol of the contempory abuses happening everywhere and that the unusual choice of having him elected in the first place was due to the abuses more specifically on the Left, not the Right, because it was default behavior.

Examples of the trend in this century is the Matriarchal form of extreme feminism that opts to simply replace the traditional Patriarchal form of the same logical form but differ on which genetics they believe are more SUPERIOR over the others. The 'matriarchal' here is also a reference to the "identity" politics that embrace DISTINCT status' of people, the increasing oversensitivity of SOME people to interpret abuse as even those 'asserting' (being assertive), to the counterdirect pre-trial accusations of labelled abusers as guilty-before-innocent and demands of faith in absolution to strict subsets of society based upon mere GENETIC classifications (but feigned as 'culture'), and to the increased occurences of SILENT abuses....like preventing those charged and convicted of something beyond the present knowledge of the accused, through censorship that leaves the accused to 'suffer' BY society without them even being necessarily aware of it. It 'Gaslights' them in the same way that the Right adopts in business normally.

I am glad Trump is out. But I knew he was being rhetorical and sincere to the 'business' beliefs we embrace in PRACTICE that those same Billionaires on the Left believe in. The only difference is that those same wealthy on the Left are acting in relative secrecy to their ingroups, cults, races, or sex while believing in using an ettiquette that hides their accountability in means of 'cultural' superiority.

We had to get Trump out. But if we do not recognize these facts that I mentioned and refuse to recognize them nor deal with them, nothing will be resolved. We will just TRADE which abusers get to take his place. I trust that we won't. History has not solved the political contradictions and likely won't. For now, all we'll get is temporary relief up to the point it is too late to notice that we just gave away our individual freedoms to a different FORM of intolerance.

My opinion is that we need to STOP allowing the 'freedom' of businesses to LIE (like advertising, for one), regardless of how trivial it may seem. The alternative is to STOP people from being illogical and anti-relgious to remove appeal for 'faith' and replace it with critical thinking skills founded on logic most specifically...something I doubt will happen until it is most required and far too late.

I think you seem to be at the mercy of -isms and social trends.
Most of these things like "cancel culture" or "cultural marxism" are just phantoms of the media; idols of the theatre and of the marketplace, if you will.
Trump deserves to be pilloried, rejected, ignored. And I shall not shrink from this just because someone accuses me of "cancel culture", whatever the fuck that is.

I agree advertising has much to answer for. It can only foster envy, greed, and eventually disappointment. Religion fosters arrogance, false hope, and an abrurd view of reality. For most the disappointment is deferred until after death (by which time its too late).

But to return to the topic.
The antics of Trump since election night is a fkcing disgrace; unforgiveable.
I am still puzzled as to what was happening in his head, if anything.
The way the election votes are counted is absurd. IN contrast to the UK where the number of votes counted are NEVER declared until each constituency has completed their count, in the US there is this weird and false "race" that is played out. Eventhough the result is set in stone, with the polls having closed there is a weird idea that it is still not a fait acomplis. I've seen people praying on TV and believing that they have altered the contents of the ballot box.
I see Trump watching his "early" success and convincing himself that he is going to win, and then showing (pretending?) utter horror that late votes are all going to Biden.
Did he really think those were "found" or invented votes? Did he not realise that mail-in ballots were being counted later? DId he not realise that telling his supporters to NOT mail-in would mean they would be counted earlier and give a better showing early in the counting?
Of was this a cunning plan?
I have to beleive he is a moron. What fool would deny a means of voting to his followers?

[Scott Mayers]

I think you seem to be at the mercy of -isms and social trends.
Most of these things like "cancel culture" or "cultural marxism" are just phantoms of the media; idols of the theatre and of the marketplace, if you will.
Trump deserves to be pilloried, rejected, ignored. And I shall not shrink from this just because someone accuses me of "cancel culture", whatever the fuck that is.

I agree advertising has much to answer for. It can only foster envy, greed, and eventually disappointment. Religion fosters arrogance, false hope, and an abrurd view of reality. For most the disappointment is deferred until after death (by which time its too late).

But to return to the topic.
The antics of Trump since election night is a fkcing disgrace; unforgiveable.
I am still puzzled as to what was happening in his head, if anything.
The way the election votes are counted is absurd. IN contrast to the UK where the number of votes counted are NEVER declared until each constituency has completed their count, in the US there is this weird and false "race" that is played out. Eventhough the result is set in stone, with the polls having closed there is a weird idea that it is still not a fait acomplis. I've seen people praying on TV and believing that they have altered the contents of the ballot box.
I see Trump watching his "early" success and convincing himself that he is going to win, and then showing (pretending?) utter horror that late votes are all going to Biden.
Did he really think those were "found" or invented votes? Did he not realise that mail-in ballots were being counted later? DId he not realise that telling his supporters to NOT mail-in would mean they would be counted earlier and give a better showing early in the counting?
Of was this a cunning plan?
I have to beleive he is a moron. What fool would deny a means of voting to his followers?

I am not defending his choice of behavior but believe that he is INTENTIONALLY LYING. I was arguing with Immanual Can here, whom I actually believe is a reasonable arguer NORMALLY. But he adopted the same kind of behavior when pushed. This is pychologically 'normal' because in reality, NO politics is sufficiently sound and one tends to defend their position based upon their OWN relative realities. If one is pushed to the degree that they understand the problem, they too may interpret the contradictions as existing regardless and so feel compelled to respond by simply SELECTING the side they favor in light of their circumstances because if they did not, they would likely have a VERY REAL reason to trust that they personally would have to sacrifice themselves ABSOLUTELY to those they know (or strongly believe) hate them personally.

The futher point needs to be made with respect to the contradiction of politics: that both sides can be interpreted as being "liberal" AND "non-liberal", "conservative" AND "non-conservative", "progressive" AND "non-progressive", etc, ....all based on WHO THEY LOVE strongly and personally, ....themselves at least necessary to some degree. The Left that succeeds will always still favor 'conservative' minimals based upon the fact that the GROUP identity of those who believe in some GENETIC foundation of their beliefs to the same extreme of those on the Right, but differ in that they include more variety of GROUPS. The dominating factor on both sides favor the racist, sexist, hateful stereotypes of one form or another, contrary to one presuming they are the 'good' guys while the others are 'evil'.

And what defines the distinction? Love of one's own. ...and their personal understanding of being victimized unfairly as "hating". That STRONG LOVE for one's own logically requires one to have STRONG opposing HATE goes hand in hand. You cannot, for instance, favor one particular person so exclusively among a set of others in your domain without at least some form of INDIFFERENCE. This indifference is the CAUSE of eventual abuses that lead to hate necessarily because of what they ignore of those they are not concerned about in a world that is finitely limited to resources.

We now have a Catholic President in the White House who doesn't believe in abortion, for instance. [assuming this given his 'strong' Catholic claims.] But the apparent 'love' of the unborn is more about the means of politics to favor the VALUES they believe they 'profit' from of those they 'save' whether it be to represent a larger needy population that competes to undermine fair wages, or their pretentious state of 'love' for those they may never require investing in directly (like how one can 'love' the starving Ethopian child on those ads where they are crying with that one FLY that is often assured to be around. ) Distance compassion for those might help strengthen their Catholic base, who then in turn, favor them (a benefit) in some circuitous route.

Regardless, the power will favor the wealth/power of SOME select subclass of the whole they choose, in contrast to another subset they reject. Although I choose the Left for its still MORE democratic form, for me, it still favors ME personally in many ways such that the opposite side would not in some way. Yet, I DO know that the present identity polltics DOES intentionally SACRIFICE (at present) the racial external identities of their hated opposition. As the stereotype of the Right as being constantly associated with White Supremacists, with Patriarchalism implied along with it, I am one of those who always loses because I am simply NOT already 'privileged' in the ways those arrogant wealthy whites on the Left tend to find some means to justify how they are 'minority' in contrast.

[For example, although the dominant 'white' class in power are (or can be) Jewish, they can call exception of themselves being in power to presume they are a victim class deserving SPECIAL protections. The present demands to be more varied in places like the movies has only removed the non-family related associates of those who ARE white. And it happens by chance that the major ownership of the movie and television industry are Jewish owned. Thus, we see a new form of discrimination that places the WEAKER class of white males unaffiliated with any CULT as sufficient to scapegoat for all the wealthier whites in power on the Left. Half of the populatio in general are women also. So we see that women in many SIGNIFICANT positions of power being increased at the sacrifice again of those particular WEAKER whites at the bottom of the economic world.

This will never end. I just watched a 'good' movie yesterday that had famous actresses playing representative real people in this COVID reality. It was very touching (I didn't catch the name of it). But it literally bashed in a counter extreme way, the Trumps in a way that, though perhaps deserving, is nevertheless TABOO if the same behavior were pointed to their own. I always thought that the insults of Trump's visual appearance troubling, even where it can be funny and also 'earned'. But to me, the means of succeeding suffices to STOP the abuses.

I notice you assume the Trumps as being relatively 'sick' where you interpret them as literally believing their 'apparent' lies. [I'm being king to put 'apparent' to reflect what they would think IF they were NOT lying) I also agree with this in part. But they could then think of him as mentally disabled. Woud that not qualify as a 'minority' class accepted by most on the present dominance of the Left? To many, the answer is vengeance: at least some form of penalty, where they also assume as I do that they INTENTIONALLY LIED.

The riot at the Capitol was bad but NOT as 'bad' as it could have been by contrast AND, to those who really DID, many of them ARE either mentally disturbed (brainwashed?) or literally suffering economically in direct opposition to Trump as a representative. But many are demanding they ALL be penalized regardless under the same banner....even those who did not enter the building. I still thought is was a violation but to those who jumped on the bandwagon, are they ALL equally at fault such that they should be punished in ways that may have already gave them apparent justice to side with Trump?

I never had CNN until recently. [My cable companies here in Canada do not permit FoxNews as part of the packages, and so they cannot be blamed for 'influence' here. But although entertaining, the news anchors there are, to me, as acting in the same way that the ragmag news style of the Fox news adopted. All the night-time hosts of all non-Fox shows prove to be stongly vocal against Trump in a way that teeters on the side of abuse, when their rhetoric is highly emotive in the same way.

In Canada, we have a 'public' service channel funded directly by our government (as most British Commonwealth adopted the BBC model. In the last 10 years, we saw that they removed all the males in positions of power, including false accusations of sex abuse that failed in the courts. But for the stereotypical LOW-level jobs that have always been based on favoring women (entry-level and survivable), are NOT changed. So waiters are still predominantly female, as is with retail sales, as one example. We also have 'culture' laws (religious laws are inclusive of this at least for the predominating 'established' English-French "catholic-style" religions conserved permanently in our Constitution as 'superior' heritage classes, alongside all Natives here who have a "distinct" status as well.) While some of these are appropriate aides, they do not exhaustively cover all people, especially those who have the MERE genetic affiliation of being white and male. This fosters multi-level discrimination.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I think this person is secretly in love with Trump. He's certainly obsessed with him.

[Scott Mayers]

Note that I could have written more but all of a sudden my typing slowed to a halt. The points above should be sufficient though. We need to STOP the abuses that are LOGICALLY under the surface of all political party views. Trump was a SYMPTOM, not the sole cause of his or others' abuses. They are just went too far and got exposed for their own default behaviors that the rest of us have been adopting in kind more and more as we embrace the 'cultural' (emotional and religious) in defiance of the logical problems underneath.