American election.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:43 pm Are you saying that it's OK for Trump's family to do something but not OK for anyone else to do the same thing?
No, for two reasons: firstly, I don't actually think Trump did that. I think it's as loony as the Russia conspiracy allegation. But let's pretend he did: that's still immaterial, really.

It's the second reason that is far more important: it's that one can't make one person's corruption better, or make it disappear, by deflecting attention to someone else's similar alleged misdeeds. That's the et tu quoque fallacy.

If both are corrupt, then both are corrupt. So Trump is just irrelevant to the whole question. Referring to him doesn't help the case of Biden at all.
If Hunter Biden is doing something wrong, then the same applies to anyone who does that same thing. And all should be held accountable.

I absolutely agree.
...that sounds like something that the investigation will determine.
I hope so.
tillingborn
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Re: American election.

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:02 pm
tillingborn wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:27 amYou should bear in mind that in the context of our exchanges, I am not the audience.
Yeah, for me, you are.
No I'm not. This is a forum, not your private pulpit. So, back to the point:
It is the broader debate between press and politicians in which we are both largely spectators. It is you that has been persuaded such that all evidence, as weak or compelling as it might be, is taken as proof of guilt. That is confirmation bias. Look at this from three weeks ago:
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:33 am Smokin' Joe has a long and very corrupt history with the Democrats, and is definitely an insider on their misdeeds...or has been. But in his present mental condition, I don't think the Dems would trust him with anything, so you're probably right...they've probably convinced him he won, and he probably believes it.
That is not the view of someone who remains persuadable. That you now concede that it would take investigations and examinations to establish the facts can be taken as progress.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:36 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:02 pm
tillingborn wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:27 amYou should bear in mind that in the context of our exchanges, I am not the audience.
Yeah, for me, you are.
No I'm not. This is a forum, not your private pulpit.
Yeah, but I talk to who I want to talk to. Others are free to observe, or even to interject, but I choose who I want as my audience when I write. That's my prerogative as writer. That's your prerogative, too.

But you can't choose my audience for me. If you don't know the difference between talking to the public and talking to somebody particular in public, then I don't know what more to suggest.
Walker
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Re: NORTH AMERICANS FUCK OFF

Post by Walker »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:47 pm
tillingborn wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:36 am
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:29 am OFFENSIVE HALFWITTED RACIST NONSENSE - DELETED BY RICK.
And a Happy New Year to you sir. Tell me; is it a mark of intelligence to continue reading something that bores you?
OFFENSIVE HALFWITTED RACIST NONSENSE - DELETED BY RICK.
Atla wrote: the US elections over yet? Who won the clown or the puppet?
Precisely.
Follow the career of this American politician.
She is obviously interesting, a cure to your boredom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chPy9OXpPMk

When she’s old enough she could be President of the United States, the greatest country on the face of the earth.
Dubious
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Re: NORTH AMERICANS

Post by Dubious »

Walker wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:48 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:47 pm
tillingborn wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:36 am
And a Happy New Year to you sir. Tell me; is it a mark of intelligence to continue reading something that bores you?
It is ridiculous that this forum is being overrun by American morons spewing regurgitated trivial crap from deep within the recesses of their dumb American throats with barely enough time for the poor dumb fucks to swallow the fried chicken that clearly is the only sustenance that their brains get.

...and no, i don't read this thread, Y should I? Is it worthy of intelligence?

Atla wrote: the US elections over yet? Who won the clown or the puppet?
Precisely.
Follow the career of this American politician.
She is obviously interesting, a cure to your boredom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chPy9OXpPMk

When she’s old enough she could be President of the United States, the greatest country on the face of the earth.


Is that so! Then what was all this crap about making America great again? Obviously your least great president thought there was this gap in greatness which America had to fill and that he was the ONLY man to do it. As it turned out, America is now considerably less great, if it ever was that great, compared to any time prior to Trump's presidency. Putin, whom Trump so much admires, must be having a ball!

It's usually the flag huggers who turn out to be the most treasonous bastards.
Gary Childress
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Re: American election.

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:15 pm It's the second reason that is far more important: it's that one can't make one person's corruption better, or make it disappear, by deflecting attention to someone else's similar alleged misdeeds. That's the et tu quoque fallacy.
That entirely misses my point. I'm not saying one person's corruption is better than another's or disappears, I'm saying if both people have done the same wrong, then both are equally guilty or equally corrupt. And if one is going to be tried for a crime, then the other should be tried too if they committed the same crime. Do you disagree?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:20 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:15 pm It's the second reason that is far more important: it's that one can't make one person's corruption better, or make it disappear, by deflecting attention to someone else's similar alleged misdeeds. That's the et tu quoque fallacy.
That entirely misses my point. I'm not saying one person's corruption is better than another's or disappears, I'm saying if both people have done the same wrong, then both are equally guilty or equally corrupt.
That means nothing relevant here. I'm not American: I don't have to choose between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, or pretend one is fine by saying the other's worse. That may be what some Americans feel they want to do, but I don't; and I don't have any reason to...neither do they actually, since it's premised on a fallacy.

So I'm only speaking of Joe Biden, because the Democrats seem to be certain he's going to be the next president. I have no concern with the last president, and Donald Trump isn't even remotely relevant to the question of Biden's potential corruption.

The only question that now matters is, "Is Joe Biden corrupt?" Let's have that investigation of the laptop, and find out if he's "The Big Guy." If he is, off to jail with him.
Gary Childress
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Re: American election.

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:48 pm The only question that now matters is, "Is Joe Biden corrupt?" Let's have that investigation of the laptop, and find out if he's "The Big Guy." If he is, off to jail with him.
I have no qualms with that. If he committed a crime, then he deserves to be punished or held accountable. I'm curious, though, what crime would he be guilty of if JB is the "big guy" mentioned on the laptop or whatever? Would it be influence peddling or conflict of interest, or some form of treason?
Gary Childress
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Re: American election.

Post by Gary Childress »

It does appear that the media are covering up for the Bidens.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... in-2020-is
tillingborn
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Re: American election.

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:05 pmYeah, but I talk to who I want to talk to. Others are free to observe, or even to interject, but I choose who I want as my audience when I write. That's my prerogative as writer. That's your prerogative, too.

But you can't choose my audience for me. If you don't know the difference between talking to the public and talking to somebody particular in public, then I don't know what more to suggest.
It's a shame you don't seem to remember the exchanges we've had over the past few weeks during which, much to the boredom of attofishpi, I made it very clear that writers nearly always choose their audience. Just to remind you, the objection you raised was that writers who express an opinion shouldn't be called journalists. Call them what you will, but many such writers work for news outlets that encourage their audience not to trust the competition. Such an 'us and them' dynamic can develop such a strong brand loyalty that some of the audience will surrender their critical faculties and believe anything they are told. Since you have no affinity for Donald Trump, you will not mind me pointing out that his success as a politician is based on his understanding and manipulation of that point.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:15 am I'm curious, though, what crime would he be guilty of if JB is the "big guy" mentioned on the laptop or whatever? Would it be influence peddling or conflict of interest, or some form of treason?
That's a good question. Hence the need for the investigation. We'll see.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:10 am Since you have no affinity for Donald Trump, you will not mind me pointing out that his success as a politician is based on his understanding and manipulation of that point.
It will be as irrelevant as the rest of your message. But more predictable.
Walker
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Re: NORTH AMERICANS

Post by Walker »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:01 pm Is that so! Then what was all this crap about making America great again? Obviously your least great president thought there was this gap in greatness which America had to fill and that he was the ONLY man to do it. As it turned out, America is now considerably less great, if it ever was that great, compared to any time prior to Trump's presidency. Putin, whom Trump so much admires, must be having a ball!

It's usually the flag huggers who turn out to be the most treasonous bastards.
It's a popular saying, but for some reason it rankles those who Hoover-up US money, honey. I figgered it would get a rankle nibble, rankle on the ankle wading for crawfish near the shore (don't worry, just on the alert for sentences never before written).

Folks from other countries feel the same about theirs, but they whisper it quietly, unlike the coarse Americans who blare it out ... all those large, bulging, bumbling people who laugh so loud when motoring on the savannah.

Yeah, we know of your cartoonish illusions.

But when the bitching starts about the greatest country in the history of the earth ( :) )poised to be economically crushed, I always think, compared to what?

Usually the measure of comparison is some vague idea that folks carry around, perhaps not even an ideal, but just some notions of what would be nice, spinning out of shifting memories glomming onto propaganda from the media that changes in acceptance as the view of life changes over time and accumulated disillusionments.

There is something a bit odd that has happened in this century, though. It began with the aftermath of 9-11.

Go through the rural areas of most any state in the country and you’re going to see something rather unusual. For festive events and when weird things start happening in the summer, you see pick-up trucks and motorcycles flying big American flags off the back, flapping in tow.

It’s usually men at the wheel or the handlebars, if it’s a woman she has borrowed the wheels. The exception is motorcycles. Those who fly flags off the back of a motorcycle are invariably old timers, and you see a lot of burly women on big Harleys. The pickup trucks are mostly youngsters at the wheel, but old-timers too drive the trucks, especially in the snow.

This is a bit disturbing. It speaks of gang colors, uniforms, a secret society that walks amongst us with secret handshakes, Skull and Bones Society, that sort of thing.

Then again, folks fly them from their pride and joy because such vehicles aren’t cheap and take a lot of sweat to get. The flags seem to be a defense of some sort, a loud and bellowing statement of intent for the eyes to hear.
Walker
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Re: American election.

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:55 am
tillingborn wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:10 am Since you have no affinity for Donald Trump, you will not mind me pointing out that his success as a politician is based on his understanding and manipulation of that point.
It will be as irrelevant as the rest of your message. But more predictable.
Jovan Pulitzer — Fulton County began shredding (evidence) ballots yesterday — 4 hours after I was asked to inspect them…
https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaki ... pect-them/

So, that’s what they do with the evidence.
- But what’s the actual evidence that’s what they do with the evidence?
- And is it done with all the evidence, in a widespread fashion?
- Who is actually reporting this and what is their political background?
- What are their, credentials?
- Has the video been certified? By whom?
- Doesn't the existence of any other alternative possibility without evidence disprove this interpretation of "alleged" events?
- Did you notice the interviewer does not sound like a mush-mouth “lifelong Georgia resident?”
- Isn’t this just one man’s perception and perceptions are open to relative interpretation by everyone so that invalidates the perception of anyone? …

Now, answer all these or you're dodging the truth. :roll:

It does get silly, doesn’t it? Don’t all the question marks make it look like the obvious is in doubt? Oy.

- Are these the kinds of questions that Socrates would ask, or are they just nosy cop questions?
Walker
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Re: NORTH AMERICANS

Post by Walker »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:01 pm
It's usually the flag huggers who turn out to be the most treasonous bastards.
That would be the flag burners.

Unless it correlates with reality, counter-intuitive is just cute ... Doublethink!
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