How religion does succeed in changing people minds in mass?

[bahman]

Well. I have to confess that I witness a few years of conversation in this forum and I just rarely saw any agreement between debaters. So I was wondering how religion can succeed while we cannot.

[Veritas Aequitas]

All humans are "programmed" with the potential for a subliminal* existential crisis/threat that generate cognitive dissonance driving all humans to seek consonance to relieve it.
* significantly subliminal and not conscious

Theistic religions which promised salvation to eternal life in heaven and avoiding Hell is the most effective psychological balm as a consonance to neutralize the angsts of the cognitive dissonance.

This is why the Abrahamic religions rely on the effective trigger 'Are you saved?' to trigger the inherent existential cognitive dissonance inherent within anyone, then provide the consonance, i.e. just surrender and believe in their God to gain the promise of eternal life.

The above is so evident where almost 90% of humans are theists and the majority of them are from the Abrahamic religions.

True, many are born into the religion, but the exposure to the trigger will trigger their cognitive dissonance that drive them to accept their faith by birth as an active belief in God who had promised to grant than eternal life.

The above are very primal instincts and humanity are slowly evolving to be more rational [as evident from current trend] instead of relying on blind faith.
But this drive and trend toward greater rationality to deal with the inherent cognitive dissonance is unfolding very slowly, thus there are only about 10-15% who are genuine non-theistic and depend upon rationality and wisdom.

Unfortunately for those who rely on rationality and wisdom to change minds will have to wait till the brain of the majority are rewired for the change. I am optimistic there are fool proofs way to expedite the process.

[Age]

Well. I have to confess that I witness a few years of conversation in this forum and I just rarely saw any agreement between debaters. So I was wondering how religion can succeed while we cannot.

Because people who attend religious services go for guidance, or they are children who are just FORCED to go.

For the former ones, then they will just blindly follow whatever way they are 'guided'.

As for the latter ones, if they have heard, or more correctly been forced to hear, the exact same thing, enough times, then they can start to believe and/or follow it. Also, if what is being taught is BELIEVED wholeheartedly to be absolutely True, which is what actually happens in religious 'circles', then this BELIEF OF, and BELIEVING IN, some 'thing' can be transferred to another without absolutely doubt. This is because absolutely ANY clarifying questioning gets shot down with ludicrous and ridiculous comments like; "There are some things that we are NOT meant to know", "We can NEVER know these things", and/or just the very simple one, "STOP asking me questions", and, "now go away and leave me be. But, come back next week and LISTEN to what I tell you because what I TELL you is thee One and ONLY Truth, okay?"

Whereas, most people who attend philosophy forums, and especially philosophy forums, BELIEVE that they HAVE and KNOW some answers and truths, and thus do NOT want to hear "others" views, but instead just WANT to EXPRESS their OWN views, and have them LISTENED TO and HEARD, by "others".

[Age]

All humans are "programmed" with the potential for a subliminal* existential crisis/threat that generate cognitive dissonance driving all humans to seek consonance to relieve it.
* significantly subliminal and not conscious

Theistic religions which promised salvation to eternal life in heaven and avoiding Hell is the most effective psychological balm as a consonance to neutralize the angsts of the cognitive dissonance.

Well if using thee ACTUAL Truth is what is NEEDED, then so be it.

But, unfortunately it is 'cognitive distortions' that cause MISINTERPRETATIONS and it is MISINTERPRETATIONS that cause 'cognitive distortions'. These MISINTERPRETATIONS and DISTORTIONS are just more READILY SEEN and NOTICED in religious literature and teachings more so than they are in scientific literature and teachings.

This is why the Abrahamic religions rely on the effective trigger 'Are you saved?' to trigger the inherent existential cognitive dissonance inherent within anyone, then provide the consonance, i.e. just surrender and belief in their God to gain the promise of eternal life.

The above is so evident where almost 90% of humans are theists and the majority of them are from the Abrahamic religions.

True, many are born into the religion, but the exposure to the trigger will trigger their cognitive dissonance that drive them to accept their faith by birth as an active belief in God who had promised to grant than eternal life.

The above are very primal instincts and humanity are slowly evolving to be more rational [as evident from current trend] instead of relying on blind faith.
But this drive and trend toward greater rationality to deal with the inherent cognitive dissonance is unfolding very slowly, thus there are only about 10-15% who are genuine non-theistic and depend upon rationality and wisdom.

Considering the VERY RATIONAL and LOGICALLY REASONED, EMPIRICAL FACT that human beings are born with absolutely NO 'cognitive dissonance' AT ALL, and that ALL and ANY "cognitive dissonance" only arises from being informed of Truly False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect things, EXACTLY like what you are saying here, "veritas aequitas".

See, 'cognitive dissonance' arises when there is a conflict between what is being taught or heard, and believed to be true, from what is ACTUALLY True.

Unfortunately for those who rely on rationality and wisdom to change minds will have to wait till the brain of the majority are rewired for the change.

LOL HOW do you propose this "rewiring" will happen, and WHEN?

I am optimistic there are fool proofs way to expedite the process.

REALLY?

So, WHY do 'you' NOT use them?

By the way, what are these, so called alleged, "fool proof ways", that will, supposedly, "expedite the process of rewiring the brain for change"?

[Immanuel Can]

Well. I have to confess that I witness a few years of conversation in this forum and I just rarely saw any agreement between debaters. So I was wondering how religion can succeed while we cannot.

Which 'religion"?

For example, some might succeed by indoctinating and confusing people: cults do that. Or sometimes they use hallucinogens or abuse to render people pliable. Some succeed by force, making people submit to the will of their god by the sword, by bombs or by terror. Some succeed by having a great weight of cultural inertia behind them; people "born into' them believe them because they think it's part of "what they are" already, and don't know any alternatives. Some succeed by manipulating desperation, naivete or ambition.

But do any succeed by telling people the truth? That might be a good question to explore.

[bahman]

All humans are "programmed" with the potential for a subliminal* existential crisis/threat that generate cognitive dissonance driving all humans to seek consonance to relieve it.
* significantly subliminal and not conscious

Theistic religions which promised salvation to eternal life in heaven and avoiding Hell is the most effective psychological balm as a consonance to neutralize the angsts of the cognitive dissonance.

This is why the Abrahamic religions rely on the effective trigger 'Are you saved?' to trigger the inherent existential cognitive dissonance inherent within anyone, then provide the consonance, i.e. just surrender and belief in their God to gain the promise of eternal life.

The above is so evident where almost 90% of humans are theists and the majority of them are from the Abrahamic religions.

True, many are born into the religion, but the exposure to the trigger will trigger their cognitive dissonance that drive them to accept their faith by birth as an active belief in God who had promised to grant than eternal life.

The above are very primal instincts and humanity are slowly evolving to be more rational [as evident from current trend] instead of relying on blind faith.
But this drive and trend toward greater rationality to deal with the inherent cognitive dissonance is unfolding very slowly, thus there are only about 10-15% who are genuine non-theistic and depend upon rationality and wisdom.

Unfortunately for those who rely on rationality and wisdom to change minds will have to wait till the brain of the majority are rewired for the change. I am optimistic there are fool proofs way to expedite the process.

It is evident that we are programmed. It gets a tremendous amount of effort to set yourself free. I am wondering why people are different in this forum too.

[bahman]

Well. I have to confess that I witness a few years of conversation in this forum and I just rarely saw any agreement between debaters. So I was wondering how religion can succeed while we cannot.

Because people who attend religious services go for guidance, or they are children who are just FORCED to go.

For the former ones, then they will just blindly follow whatever way they are 'guided'.

As for the latter ones, if they have heard, or more correctly been forced to hear, the exact same thing, enough times, then they can start to believe and/or follow it. Also, if what is being taught is BELIEVED wholeheartedly to be absolutely True, which is what actually happens in religious 'circles', then this BELIEF OF, and BELIEVING IN, some 'thing' can be transferred to another without absolutely doubt. This is because absolutely ANY clarifying questioning gets shot down with ludicrous and ridiculous comments like; "There are some things that we are NOT meant to know", "We can NEVER know these things", and/or just the very simple one, "STOP asking me questions", and, "now go away and leave me be. But, come back next week and LISTEN to what I tell you because what I TELL you is thee One and ONLY Truth, okay?"

Whereas, most people who attend philosophy forums, and especially philosophy forums, BELIEVE that they HAVE and KNOW some answers and truths, and thus do NOT want to hear "others" views, but instead just WANT to EXPRESS their OWN views, and have them LISTENED TO and HEARD, by "others".

So we program our children by something which is not appropriate.

[bahman]

Well. I have to confess that I witness a few years of conversation in this forum and I just rarely saw any agreement between debaters. So I was wondering how religion can succeed while we cannot.

Which 'religion"?

All of them.

For example, some might succeed by indoctinating and confusing people: cults do that. Or sometimes they use hallucinogens or abuse to render people pliable. Some succeed by force, making people submit to the will of their god by the sword, by bombs or by terror. Some succeed by having a great weight of cultural inertia behind them; people "born into' them believe them because they think it's part of "what they are" already, and don't know any alternatives. Some succeed by manipulating desperation, naivete or ambition.

But do any succeed by telling people the truth? That might be a good question to explore.

No one listens to the truth! What is the truth in your opinion?

[Immanuel Can]

Well. I have to confess that I witness a few years of conversation in this forum and I just rarely saw any agreement between debaters. So I was wondering how religion can succeed while we cannot.

Which 'religion"?

All of them.

That answer won't do, for the reasons given below. There isn't a singular answer...there are a bunch of different ones.

For example, some might succeed by indoctinating and confusing people: cults do that. Or sometimes they use hallucinogens or abuse to render people pliable. Some succeed by force, making people submit to the will of their god by the sword, by bombs or by terror. Some succeed by having a great weight of cultural inertia behind them; people "born into' them believe them because they think it's part of "what they are" already, and don't know any alternatives. Some succeed by manipulating desperation, naivete or ambition.

But do any succeed by telling people the truth? That might be a good question to explore.

No one listens to the truth! What is the truth in your opinion?

It's interesting that you disagree with Jesus Christ about that, and agree with his accuser, the Roman procurator who executed him, named Pilate.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life," (John 14:6), and "For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice.”

Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” and then went out with waiting for an answer. (John 18:37-38)

[bahman]

Which 'religion"?

All of them.

That answer won't do, for the reasons given below. There isn't a singular answer...there are a bunch of different ones.

For example, some might succeed by indoctinating and confusing people: cults do that. Or sometimes they use hallucinogens or abuse to render people pliable. Some succeed by force, making people submit to the will of their god by the sword, by bombs or by terror. Some succeed by having a great weight of cultural inertia behind them; people "born into' them believe them because they think it's part of "what they are" already, and don't know any alternatives. Some succeed by manipulating desperation, naivete or ambition.

But do any succeed by telling people the truth? That might be a good question to explore.

No one listens to the truth! What is the truth in your opinion?

It's interesting that you disagree with Jesus Christ about that, and agree with his accuser, the Roman procurator who executed him, named Pilate.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life," (John 14:6), and "For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice.”

Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” and then went out with waiting for an answer. (John 18:37-38)

What is the truth?

[Immanuel Can]

What is the truth?

Jesus Christ is the Truth.

[bahman]

What is the truth?

Jesus Christ is the Truth.

I think I am the truth! I however have an argument for each of my claim.

[Immanuel Can]

What is the truth?

Jesus Christ is the Truth.

I think I am the truth!

Then you are Antichrist. The meaning of that word is, "The one who puts himself in the place of Christ."

[bahman]

Jesus Christ is the Truth.

I think I am the truth!

Then you are Antichrist. The meaning of that word is, "The one who puts himself in the place of Christ."

Well, What is the truth that Jesus offers?

[Immanuel Can]

Well, What is the truth that Jesus offers?

Himself.