Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:29 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:13 am
There you go with the ad hominums again, which only divert away from the argument thus proving weakness on your part.
What ALLEGED "ad hominums"?
Or, maybe you ACTUALLY did READ ALL of what I wrote, but because you can NOT counter what I wrote and/or do NOT like to ADMIT that what I wrote ACTUALLY does makes sense, you now chose to be DISHONEST and thus said what you did here.
If you are just going to repeat exactly what I wrote to you, and 'try to' use this to DETRACT AWAY from YOUR COMPLETE INABILITY to just ANSWER the CLARIFYING QUESTION I posed to 'you', then it is NOT going to work.
YOUR INABILITIES are becoming MORE CLEARLY OBVIOUS to MORE PEOPLE the MORE you do this.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:29 am
I have ALREADY asked you to CLARIFY what 'ad hominums' means to you. YET you NEVER did.
Pointing the direction of the argument itself towards then argueer as expressed in then above argument.
What? All I did was just ask you a CLARIFYING QUESTION. I was NOT, so called, "pointing the direction of the argument" ANYWHERE.
If you can NOT answer a CLARIFYING QUESTION, then so be it. But do NOT expect YOUR points/arguments to be CLARIFIED.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:29 am
Also, what 'argument'? You have YET to provide a sound and valid argument?
What is soundness and validity?
In regards to 'discussions', to me:
'Soundness' is;
the quality of being based on valid reason or on logical reasoning
'Validity' is;
the quality of being logically or factually sound;
In regards to 'deductive arguments', to me:
A deductive argument is said to be valid if and only if it takes a form that makes it impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion nevertheless to be false. A deductive argument is sound if and only if it is both valid, and all of its premises are actually true.
That is what 'soundness' AND 'validity' is, to me.
Now, what can be CLEARLY SEEN is that I have the decency to ANSWER YOUR CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, which AS PROVEN is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what 'you' do.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:29 am
And until you do, the so called, "arguments" that you do provide are OBVIOUSLY NOT WORTHY.
Not worthy of who? You? Who made you the decider of what is true and untrue?
This is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of one who is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY BLINDED by their OWN ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS.
LOOK AT how they ASK a CLARIFYING QUESTION, BUT instead of WAITING for the ACTUAL True, Right, and Correct ANSWER, they ANSWER the question "themselves" INSTANTLY, and then proceed to QUICKLY JUMP to ASK ANOTHER CLARIFYING QUESTION based on the ASSUMPTION that they ALREADY BELIEVE that they ALREADY KNOW what the ANSWER IS and WILL BE.
To PROVIDE 'you' with the True, Right, and Correct ANSWER to your FIRST question here, then the ANSWER is; EVERY one.
To ANSWER YOUR second question, the ANSWER is; Not just 'me'.
To ANSWER YOUR third question, the ANSWER is; This question is MOOT because YOUR ASSUMPTION is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY WRONG.
When, and IF, you EVER LOOK AT and SEE the ANSWER to YOUR first question, then you can SEE 'who' is ACTUALLY the 'decider' of what is true AND untrue.
I will AGAIN suggest that if one Truly WANTS to discover or learn and understand what thee ACTUAL Truth of things IS, then just BE and REMAIN Truly OPEN, and CURIOUS, and STOP LOOKING AT and SEEING things from the perspective on one's OWN ALREADY gained thoughts and BELIEFS.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:31 am
And no what you write does not make sense as the majority of what you state is ad hominums stating that I am not observing the truth.
IF thee Truth IS that 'you' are 'NOT observing the truth', then this is just what thee Truth ACTUALLY IS.
This, to me, is NOT an 'ad hominum'.
What an 'ad hominum' however is, to 'you', we will NEVER KNOW because you NEVER tell 'us'/CLARIFY.
Also, AS ALREADY EXPLAINED to you, if you do NOT LEARN how to quote properly AND correctly, then what write and say here makes FOLLOWING our discussion EXTREMELY HARD. A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THIS is here where you started your sentence here with; "And no ...".
What is 'this' in reference to EXACTLY?
And if you do NOT CLARIFY this, then this could be A SIGN that even 'you' are having an extremely hard time FOLLOWING this discussion.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:29 am
And you DISCUSSING these, supposed and alleged, "ad hominums" may well be just a DIVERSIONARY TACTIC of yours. And if so, are then just weaknesses on your part.
While we are on this WHY do you NOT comment on what I counter against you?
It is already addressed.
It is ALREADY NOT ADDRESSED.
As STUPID as this sounds is as STUPID as what you said here sounds.
You have NOT addressed NOR commented on what I counter against you.
What can be CLEARLY SEEN is YOUR DIVERSIONARY TACTICS.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:29 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:31 am
You said:
"' but which are ACTUALLY AGREED WITH and ACCEPTED to mean some 'thing'" which observes your assumption that group agreement is the foundation of non assumption.
Do NOT forget that it was you who STATED that you did NOT READ what else I wrote. Therefore, this is PROOF that you are NOT YET ABLE to gain a True UNDERSTANDING of what I have actually SAID and STATED.
False, everything as subject to change necessitates change as constant and unchanging.
What?
OBVIOUSLY, if you have NOT READ what I wrote, as you CLAIM you did, then you can NOT KNOW what I wrote, and therefore could NEVER gain a True UNDERSTANDING of what I have ACTUALLY SAID and STATED.
The FACT that this is PURE OBVIOUS is SELF-EVIDENT. And, the FACT that you wrote "False" to this, just SHOWS and PROVES just HOW far ASTRAY you ACTUALLY ARE from what is going on here.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:29 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:31 am
Let's make this simple just provide a list of points saying where I am wrong and I will address each one by number.
Let us make this EVEN SIMPLER you provide your, so called, "argument" in a few premise and conclusion point form, and then I will SHOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE WRONG.
If you do NOT, then that PROVES you have something to hide, are afraid, already know that you are wrong, or for some other reason.
Actually it doesn't prove anything because the argument is stated already in the beginning of the thread, if you would read it it is already stated there. I have provided the argument already but your inability to address it "PROVES you have something to hide, are afraid, already know that you are wrong, or for some other reason."
But I have ALREADY SHOWN WHERE YOU ARE WRONG. If you would READ IT it is ALREADY STATED HERE.
And, YOUR, so called, "argument", allegedly, stated "in the beginning of this thread" is OBVIOUSLY NOT in the form which I just said would MAKE SHOWING where YOU ARE WRONG, EVEN SIMPLER.
So, WHY do you NOT put YOUR "argument" in the form that I suggested?
Also, what you wrote "in the beginning of this thread" is NOT an 'argument'. What you wrote is just a statement, sentence, or a CLAIM of just what you ALREADY BELIEVE is true. But, if you just want to use this CLAIM, and NOT put YOUR, so called, "argument" into point form, then let us LOOK AT it and DISCUSS this CLAIM of YOURS.
This is YOUR sentence/CLAIM:
A definition of God includes "all that exists" thus equating a belief in all existence as existing to a hallucination, ie God is a hallucination, is to result in contradiction given one is calling the very totality of reality they live in to a hallucination.
And as I have ALREADY POINTED OUT, but will do AGAIN, where you are WRONG is:
1. This, so called, definition of 'God' has to OBVIOUSLY be WRONG, from the outset. So, picking and choosing a definition of 'God', which is OBVIOUSLY JUST PLAIN False, Wrong, and Incorrect, from the very beginning, is WHERE you are WRONG, from the outset.
2. Just because ONE definition has been provided, by one or more people, then this, in and of itself, has NO bearing whatsoever on it being true or even being anywhere close to be true, so using A definition as though it has SOME bearing on truth is WRONG in and of itself. So, this is WHERE you are WRONG, again.
3. A definition, by itself, NEVER necessarily equates a BELIEF in absolutely ANY thing. So, this is WHERE you are WRONG, also.
4. JUMPING to the CONCLUSION, "ie. God is a hallucination", without providing ANY ACTUAL EVIDENCE NOR PROVE is just PLAIN WRONG. You have NOT YET provided ANY actual evidence NOR proof for your CLAIM so this is WHERE you are WRONG, once more.
5. JUMPING to the CONCLUSION, "is to result in contradiction", without any other EXPLANATION is just PLAIN WRONG. So, this is WHERE you are WRONG, as well.
6. Saying, "
given one is calling the very totality of reality they live in to a hallucination", but NOT naming who this one is is just PLAIN DECEIVING, so this is WHERE you are WRONG, this time. And,
7. WHERE you are REALLY WRONG is:
When you DO not even attempt to CLARIFY what 'it' is that you are REALLY 'trying to' EXPRESS and CONVEY.
When you do NOT even attempt to EXPLAIN HOW and WHY you have arrived at, JUMPED to these CONCLUSIONS and BELIEFS of YOURS, which you are 'trying to' CLAIM are ALREADY and ABSOLUTELY True, Right, and Correct. And,
When you do NOT define the words you use.
Now, there is A list of points saying WHERE you are WRONG. So, let us now SEE just HOW, and IF, you will address each one by number.