More federal US executions in 2020 than the last 56 years.

[henry quirk]

Given that no form of contraception is 100% effective, should women who do not wish to become pregnant abstain from sex?

men & women who don't wanna make brand-spankin' new persons can...

abstain, have vasectomies & tubal ligations, etc.

where do you stand on all this?

That's hilarious. The man who prides himself on being an island who doesn't let anyone tell him what to do....telling others what to do...

You are such a hypocrite.

if you actually paid attention, you'd know that ain't so...but, you won't (*which is a shame), so, as you like









*lace is a hippy-drippy lost cause...she's a punchin' bag...you, though, you got a good head, a good mind...you also got a hair-trigger, which is unfortunate

[vegetariantaxidermy]

men & women who don't wanna make brand-spankin' new persons can...

abstain, have vasectomies & tubal ligations, etc.

where do you stand on all this?

That's hilarious. The man who prides himself on being an island who doesn't let anyone tell him what to do....telling others what to do...

You are such a hypocrite.

if you actually paid attention, you'd know that ain't so...but, you won't (*which is a shame), so, as you like








*lace is a hippy-drippy lost cause...she's a punchin' bag...you, though, you got a good head, a good mind...you also got a hair-trigger, which is unfortunate

No. You go WAY beyond your 'every man for himself' dystopia bullshit. You are making moral judgements and unscientific claims about 'personhood'. The majority of abortions, by far, occur in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. There is literally NOTHING to see, so stop frequenting bullshit religiofuck websites and learn a bit about women and biology. If you don't intend to fill your home with the results of unwanted pregnancies then shut the fuck up! Suggesting 'celibacy' is beyond pathetic. Many women have great difficult with the pill, suffering all kinds of awful side effects. The alternatives are not very reliable. Even 'virtuous' married white women can have unwanted pregnancies you know...
Suggesting that women should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy for 9 months, give birth and hand the baby over to a complete stranger, and then expect them to carry on as if nothing has happened is the 'thinking' of a complete moron who has no clue about anything and imagines that everyone is as emotionally empty as he is.

[tillingborn]

I didn't say you were.

The way you wrote it makes it appear "gun-happy old yank religioturds" applies to all us hypocritical scumbags involved in the discourse.

My comments were directed at the hypocritical anti-choice religioturd scumbags on here. if you think you are one of those then so be it.

Apology accepted.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

The way you wrote it makes it appear "gun-happy old yank religioturds" applies to all us hypocritical scumbags involved in the discourse.

My comments were directed at the hypocritical anti-choice religioturd scumbags on here. if you think you are one of those then so be it.

Apology accepted.

None was offered.

[henry quirk]

That's hilarious. The man who prides himself on being an island who doesn't let anyone tell him what to do....telling others what to do...

You are such a hypocrite.

if you actually paid attention, you'd know that ain't so...but, you won't (*which is a shame), so, as you like








*lace is a hippy-drippy lost cause...she's a punchin' bag...you, though, you got a good head, a good mind...you also got a hair-trigger, which is unfortunate

No. You go WAY beyond your 'every man for himself' dystopia bullshit. You are making moral judgements and unscientific claims about 'personhood'. The majority of abortions, by far, occur in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. There is literally NOTHING to see, so stop frequenting bullshit religiofuck websites and learn a bit about women and biology. If you don't intend to fill your home with the results of unwanted pregnancies then shut the fuck up! Suggesting 'celibacy' is beyond pathetic. Many women have great difficult with the pill, suffering all kinds of awful side effects. The alternatives are not very reliable. Even 'virtuous' married white women can have unwanted pregnancies you know...
Suggesting that women should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy for 9 months, give birth and hand the baby over to a complete stranger, and then expect them to carry on as if nothing has happened is the 'thinking' of a complete moron who has no clue about anything and imagines that everyone is as emotionally empty as he is.

still not payin' attention, veg...that damned hair trigger

[Lacewing]

No. You go WAY beyond your 'every man for himself' dystopia bullshit. You are making moral judgements and unscientific claims about 'personhood'. The majority of abortions, by far, occur in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. There is literally NOTHING to see, so stop frequenting bullshit religiofuck websites and learn a bit about women and biology. If you don't intend to fill your home with the results of unwanted pregnancies then shut the fuck up! Suggesting 'celibacy' is beyond pathetic. Many women have great difficult with the pill, suffering all kinds of awful side effects. The alternatives are not very reliable. Even 'virtuous' married white women can have unwanted pregnancies you know...
Suggesting that women should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy for 9 months, give birth and hand the baby over to a complete stranger, and then expect them to carry on as if nothing has happened is the 'thinking' of a complete moron who has no clue about anything and imagines that everyone is as emotionally empty as he is.

Very well said.

[tillingborn]

While we have been bitching about personhood and reproduction politics, Alfred Bourgeois has died. Justly executed or brutally murdered; take your pick. According to the website, the next person to die https://www.themarshallproject.org/next-to-die is a Lisa Montgomery. Convicted of a shocking crime, does anyone believe that justice will be served by executing her, given her shocking history?

[Skepdick]

You have premised this on the assumption that punishment is no deterrent.

I haven't.

This is where you did so:

should murderers be punished?

If it helps prevent future murders - yes.
If it has no effect on future murders - no.

If the side-effect of punishment is not a net-benefit to society, then it's punishment for its own sake.

In the conversation with henry I did.

in the conversation with you I didn't because I didn't have to - you explicitly excluded deterrence from being relevant when deciding to punish.

Ah, in the context of your reply to Henry Quirk: even if there is no benefit in terms of future murders, I still think that murderers should be punished.

[henry quirk]

While we have been bitching about personhood and reproduction politics, *Alfred Bourgeois has died. Justly executed or brutally murdered; take your pick. According to the website, the next person to die https://www.themarshallproject.org/next-to-die is a **Lisa Montgomery. Convicted of a shocking crime, does anyone believe that justice will be served by executing her, given her shocking history?

*good

**Lisa Montgomery fatally strangled a pregnant woman, Bobbie Jo Stinnett, cut open her body, and kidnapped her baby. In December 2004, as part of a premeditated murder-kidnap scheme, Montgomery drove from her home in Kansas to Stinnett’s home in Missouri, purportedly to purchase a puppy. Once inside the residence, Montgomery attacked and strangled Stinnett—who was eight months pregnant—until the victim lost consciousness. Using a kitchen knife, Montgomery then cut into Stinnett’s abdomen, causing her to regain consciousness. A struggle ensued, and Montgomery strangled Stinnett to death. Montgomery then removed the baby from Stinnett’s body, took the baby with her, and attempted to pass it off as her own. Montgomery subsequently confessed to murdering Stinnett and abducting her child. In October 2007, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Missouri found Montgomery guilty of federal kidnapping resulting in death, and unanimously recommended a death sentence, which the court imposed. Her conviction and sentence were affirmed on appeal, and her request for collateral relief was rejected by every court that considered it. Montgomery is scheduled to be executed by lethal injection on December 8, 2020, at U.S. Penitentiary Terre Haute, Indiana.

ride the lightnin', lisa (but not today...execution was delayed till -- I think -- jan.12 over beer virus concerns)

now, if you wanna make the case that lisa is sick in the head, cuz of all the abuse she suffered, and isn't responsible, then you house, feed her, clothe her, be responsible for her whackadoodle self...leave the taxpayers out of it...mebbe you can fund her private incarceration & rehabilitation thru an on-goin' gofundme account...or mebbe paypal can help...mebbe all the helen prejeans can get together and start a home somewhere...have bake sales and knit booties for kids & sell 'em on the net

[tillingborn]

That's a yes then.

[henry quirk]

yep

[Eyeon]

.

[tillingborn]

I find that I live in a state with no death penalty. However, if we wish to see the end of the death penalty extended to all US citizens then we need to alter the constitution (a challenging task of course).

Not being an American I'm not sure how things work there, but I understand that the eighth amendment to the constitution outlaws cruel and unusual punishments. I think you could make reasonable case that killing people is cruel. As for unusual, worldwide the death penalty is the exception rather than the rule. For instance, the only European country that still exercises capital punishment is Belarus; even Russia hasn't officially executed anyone since 1996. No doubt American advocates of the death penalty are proud to be aligned with most Islamic countries and the likes of North Korea and China.

[Walker]

I think you could make reasonable case that killing people is cruel.

You could certainly try.

All that "cruel and unusual" means is that the punishment should fit the crime, which is why there are different classifications of crimes.

Recently a man serving a 99-year sentence, not for a capital crime, was released after serving 30 some-odd years behind bars. That sentence was cruel and unusual even though it didn’t involve an overt execution, and now the inappropriate harshness of the punishment is made absurdly obvious by all the pot dispensaries opening up, in defiance of US federal law.

Cruel and unusual happens all the time, no matter what the rules say, which is likely the rationalization that activates the philosophy of The End Justifies The Means.

As for unusual, worldwide the death penalty is the exception rather than the rule.

One could make the case that amputating a hand for petty theft is cruel and unusual.

That "unusual" is a tricky word though, isn't it. If enough folks do it, is it unusual?

The answer: unusual must be defined in light of the Declaration of Independence, as must the rest of the constitution be defined.

Here’s an objective statement to sink your teeth into in the hopes of turning a try into a do: God and not man grants the inalienable right to life, but man punishes the worst crimes with the most (worst) wrong he can dispense.

Thus, the ironclad argument that killing 'lil' fetus people is cruel and unusual.

3-2-1 ... trigger!

Roy Rogers and Trigger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pVSFzJGSk

Of course, in these modern times cruel and unusual has even bled over into civil discourse.