death with dignity

[henry quirk]

In order to let the responsible ones be free, the irresponsible or dumb ones need to be controlled one way or another. They simply aren't/can't going to do it themselves.

can you cite some examples of the dumb or irresponsible ones?

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484230 time=1607650573 user_id=472]
[b]In order to let the responsible ones be free, the irresponsible or dumb ones need to be controlled one way or another. They simply aren't/can't going to do it themselves.[/b]

can you cite some examples of the dumb or irresponsible ones?
[/quote]

Every single American congressperson.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

The people in power probably aren't the right ones but there are definitely people made of finer clay who should be in charge of others, and who are capable of doing so well. Sometimes we call them parents, sometimes leaders.

can you cite some examples of the finer clay group?

Well according to you that would by your orange love machine. I'm surpised you vote because it's allocating an awful lot of power and control to one, single person.

[henry quirk]

Then 'you' are the naive one.

well, if humans are do shitty, why is it a good idea to give some of them power over others...currently, that's what every form of government does, you know

“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?” ― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

'Some' people are made of a finer clay than others. I believe in equal rights under the law, but that's not the same as saying all people are equal.
Our system isn't perfect, and it's very fragile, but it's all we have at this time and we certainly have far more freedom, and our lives are far easier and more pleasant, than ever before (unless you live in some backward bunghole of a country).

so good enough is good enough for you...okay

so: I guess this...

thanks to an Aussie fuckwad we are about to lose a huge chunk of our 'freedom' thanks to a wokie govt. that is desperate to pander to the demands of muslim immigrants, and wants to punish the entire population for its own cock-ups.

...was just hyperbole...or mebbe lettin' a wokie gov carve out a chunk of your liberty is just the price folks have to pay for good enough

[Lacewing]

All else!

Such as...
> the distorted self-serving delusional way you supposedly use/apply the principles
> the fact that you're not the only person on the planet, and your demands/expectations are distorted by your own limited mental state
> you don't own anything
> you are a product of all kinds of influences
> you are a willing pawn and distributor of propaganda
> you don't know what you're doing
> most people don't want to be like you, nor do they want the kind of world that you do
> humankind is an interconnected system -- so your ignorance absolutely deprives others of that which could be better for their life and liberty

(This goes for everyone)

We all affect each other... and you're full of baloney to act like your supposed principles somehow prevent you from being nonsensical.

Those are a few examples of what you're ignoring.

so: what do you suggest instead?

Practice seeing the larger system that is affected, and that is at work. There's much more to consider: it's not all about you and your specific rights/principles and your guns (or anyone's). Most of us want freedom and many of the same things for ourselves AND EACH OTHER. Being self-absorbed is not broad-minded. Seeing most others as enemies to be warred against is very primitive -- and it's delusional to think that you are protecting/acquiring anything with such a limited mindset.

[henry quirk]

In order to let the responsible ones be free, the irresponsible or dumb ones need to be controlled one way or another. They simply aren't/can't going to do it themselves.

can you cite some examples of the dumb or irresponsible ones?

Every single American congressperson.

mercenary ain't incompetent, though some probably are

[henry quirk]

The people in power probably aren't the right ones but there are definitely people made of finer clay who should be in charge of others, and who are capable of doing so well. Sometimes we call them parents, sometimes leaders.

can you cite some examples of the finer clay group?

Well according to you that would by your orange love machine. I'm surpised you vote because it's allocating an awful lot of power and control to one, single person.

ORANGE MAN, as I say, is a hand-grenade...I hired him to wreck shit, not to save it

ORANGE MAN was the first vote I cast in over twenty years

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484235 time=1607651058 user_id=472]
[quote=Advocate post_id=484231 time=1607650758 user_id=15238]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484230 time=1607650573 user_id=472]
[b]In order to let the responsible ones be free, the irresponsible or dumb ones need to be controlled one way or another. They simply aren't/can't going to do it themselves.[/b]

can you cite some examples of the dumb or irresponsible ones?
[/quote]

Every single American congressperson.
[/quote]

mercenary ain't incompetent, though some probably are
[/quote]

They're dumb to put immediate personal interests ahead of creating a good world for everyone. They'd personally benefit much more from the latter. It's basic game theory.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

well, if humans are do shitty, why is it a good idea to give some of them power over others...currently, that's what every form of government does, you know

“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?” ― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

'Some' people are made of a finer clay than others. I believe in equal rights under the law, but that's not the same as saying all people are equal.
Our system isn't perfect, and it's very fragile, but it's all we have at this time and we certainly have far more freedom, and our lives are far easier and more pleasant, than ever before (unless you live in some backward bunghole of a country).

so good enough is good enough for you...okay

so: I guess this...

thanks to an Aussie fuckwad we are about to lose a huge chunk of our 'freedom' thanks to a wokie govt. that is desperate to pander to the demands of muslim immigrants, and wants to punish the entire population for its own cock-ups.

...was just hyperbole...or mebbe lettin' a wokie gov carve out a chunk of your liberty is just the price folks have to pay for good enough

I'm flattered, but you seem to have a very inflated view of how much power I have as an individual. I'm not a leader type, and I'm not a follower either. If people are upset enough about the loss of free speech then they will show it at the next election. It takes 'many' people to feel strongly enough about 'something' to elicit change. That's the infuriating thing. It took SO long for people to get the freedoms they have now, and only the stroke of a pen to lose them.
It's civilisation that you seem to be against.

[henry quirk]

All else!

Such as...
> the distorted self-serving delusional way you supposedly use/apply the principles
> the fact that you're not the only person on the planet, and your demands/expectations are distorted by your own limited mental state
> you don't own anything
> you are a product of all kinds of influences
> you are a willing pawn and distributor of propaganda
> you don't know what you're doing
> most people don't want to be like you, nor do they want the kind of world that you do
> humankind is an interconnected system -- so your ignorance absolutely deprives others of that which could be better for their life and liberty

(This goes for everyone)

We all affect each other... and you're full of baloney to act like your supposed principles somehow prevent you from being nonsensical.

Those are a few examples of what you're ignoring.

so: what do you suggest instead?

Practice seeing the larger system that is affected, and that is at work. There's much more to consider: it's not all about you and your specific rights/principles and your guns (or anyone's). Most of us want freedom and many of the same things for ourselves AND EACH OTHER. Being self-absorbed is not broad-minded. Seeing most others as enemies to be warred against is very primitive -- and it's delusional to think that you are protecting/acquiring anything with such a limited mindset.

this...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...seems pretty inclusive to me

for example...

*Lacewing belongs to herself

*Lacewing's life, liberty, and property are hers

*Lacewing's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when she knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...I'm not seein' why you find it objectionable or shortsighted unless, of course, you think you don't belong to yourself, or that your life, liberty, and property aren't yours, or if you think it's okay for you to deprive another of life, liberty, or property

[henry quirk]

Every single American congressperson.

mercenary ain't incompetent, though some probably are

They're dumb to put immediate personal interests ahead of creating a good world for everyone. They'd personally benefit much more from the latter. It's basic game theory.

or, they're forceful enough to bulldog voters into votin' for 'em...they only do what we let 'em

so: what does that say about voters?

[Lacewing]

this...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...seems pretty inclusive to me

...I'm not seein' why you find it objectionable or shortsighted...

Again, because you are ignoring all else. Apparently you don't even realize there IS anything else. How small is that Universe? Do you really think a few words/ideas, applied in any one of countless self-serving and distorted ways, REALLY serves as a singular ultimate principle to live by?

[henry quirk]

'Some' people are made of a finer clay than others. I believe in equal rights under the law, but that's not the same as saying all people are equal.
Our system isn't perfect, and it's very fragile, but it's all we have at this time and we certainly have far more freedom, and our lives are far easier and more pleasant, than ever before (unless you live in some backward bunghole of a country).

so good enough is good enough for you...okay

so: I guess this...

thanks to an Aussie fuckwad we are about to lose a huge chunk of our 'freedom' thanks to a wokie govt. that is desperate to pander to the demands of muslim immigrants, and wants to punish the entire population for its own cock-ups.

...was just hyperbole...or mebbe lettin' a wokie gov carve out a chunk of your liberty is just the price folks have to pay for good enough

I'm flattered, but you seem to have a very inflated view of how much power I have as an individual. I'm not a leader type, and I'm not a follower either. If people are upset enough about the loss of free speech then they will show it at the next election. It takes 'many' people to feel strongly enough about 'something' to elicit change. That's the infuriating thing. It took SO long for people to get the freedoms they have now, and only the stroke of a pen to lose them.
It's civilisation that you seem to be against.

you missed my point...that's okay

no, I'm promotin' the only civilization worth havin'...one where a fuckwad with a pen can't take your liberty

[henry quirk]

this...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...seems pretty inclusive to me

...I'm not seein' why you find it objectionable or shortsighted...

Again, because you are ignoring all else. Apparently you don't even realize there IS anything else. How small is that Universe? Do you really think a few words/ideas, applied in any one of countless self-serving and distorted ways, REALLY serves as a singular ultimate principle to live by?

well, your last list of all else mostly seemed an attack on me...

> the distorted self-serving delusional way you supposedly use/apply the principles
> the fact that you're not the only person on the planet, and your demands/expectations are distorted by your own limited mental state
> you don't own anything
> you are a product of all kinds of influences
> you are a willing pawn and distributor of propaganda
> you don't know what you're doing
> most people don't want to be like you, nor do they want the kind of world that you do
> humankind is an interconnected system -- so your ignorance absolutely deprives others of that which could be better for their life and liberty

humor me, gimme a list of the all else you think I'm ignorin' without makin' it about me

[Advocate]

So about death...