death with dignity

[henry quirk]

Well your ridiculous vision of your 'utopia' is completely unworkable and goes entirely against human nature and evolution. Humans don't WANT to live like that because it's dangerous and miserable, when they want to be comfortable and happy. They want to see their children grow past the age of one. They want help when they are sick and in pain. It MIGHT work if there were only about ten people on the planet, and they EACH had their own country. Then you could sit there all alone with your big gun, paranoid and completely insane, repeating the word 'freedom' ad infinitum with no one to hear it (which means that for all intents and purposes you wouldn't actuallly exist)...

Too funny!

Excellent description of the reality of Henry's nonsense position and vision.

why is adopting three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turnin' people loose nonsensical?

[Lacewing]

why is adopting three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turnin' people loose nonsensical?

Because it ignores all else.

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484214 time=1607648249 user_id=472]
[quote=Lacewing post_id=484213 time=1607647984 user_id=11228]
[quote=vegetariantaxidermy to Henry post_id=484168 time=1607630338 user_id=8006]
Well your ridiculous vision of your 'utopia' is completely unworkable and goes entirely against human nature and evolution. Humans don't WANT to live like that because it's dangerous and miserable, when they want to be comfortable and happy. They want to see their children grow past the age of one. They want help when they are sick and in pain. It MIGHT work if there were only about ten people on the planet, and they EACH had their own country. Then you could sit there all alone with your big gun, paranoid and completely insane, repeating the word 'freedom' ad infinitum with no one to hear it (which means that for all intents and purposes you wouldn't actuallly exist)...
[/quote]
:lol: Too funny!

Excellent description of the reality of Henry's nonsense position and vision.
[/quote]

why is adopting three simple principles...

[i]*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property[/i]

...and turnin' people loose nonsensical?
[/quote]

Do you mean an embedded chip which shorts their ability to do otherwise? Because otherwise, it doesn't matter which rules you plug in, as soon as someone starts not following them, the whole experiment is over.

[henry quirk]

why is adopting three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turnin' people loose nonsensical?

Because it ignores all else.

what does it ignore?

[henry quirk]

Too funny!

Excellent description of the reality of Henry's nonsense position and vision.

why is adopting three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turnin' people loose nonsensical?

Do you mean an embedded chip which shorts their ability to do otherwise? Because otherwise, it doesn't matter which rules you plug in, as soon as someone starts not following them, the whole experiment is over.

no, no chips...just principles

surely, as I say, they won't do any worse than they do now with ten thousand laws on the books...mebbe, though, with only three little unambiguous inviolate principles, they might do better

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484218 time=1607648517 user_id=472]
no, no chips...just principles

surely, as I say, they'll won't do any worse than they do now with ten thousand laws on the books...mebbe, though, with only three little unambiguous inviolate principles, they might do better
[/quote]

There are practically infinite ways those so-called unambiguous principles will be disagreed upon in practice, leaving us exactly where we are today, but with all the lessons of history to relearn.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

It's more of a loathing for those they consider to not be as 'awesome' as themselves.

libertarians aren't monolithic...there are multiple strains and multiple takes on those strains

my own, and my take, is uncommon, non-political, and pretty much assumes most people are pretty friggin' awesome

yer buddy, advocate, now he's the one advocatin' for what he calls libertarian fascism...he believes most folks aren't awesome or capable of runnin' their own affairs

me: I believe the opposite

Then 'you' are the naive one.

[Lacewing]

why is adopting three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turnin' people loose nonsensical?

Because it ignores all else.

what does it ignore?

All else!

Such as...
> the distorted self-serving delusional way you supposedly use/apply the principles
> the fact that you're not the only person on the planet, and your demands/expectations are distorted by your own limited mental state
> you don't own anything
> you are a product of all kinds of influences
> you are a willing pawn and distributor of propaganda
> you don't know what you're doing
> most people don't want to be like you, nor do they want the kind of world that you do
> humankind is an interconnected system -- so your ignorance absolutely deprives others of that which could be better for their life and liberty

(This goes for everyone)

We all affect each other... and you're full of baloney to act like your supposed principles somehow prevent you from being nonsensical.

Those are a few examples of what you're ignoring.

[Advocate]

[quote=vegetariantaxidermy post_id=484221 time=1607649578 user_id=8006]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484208 time=1607647560 user_id=472]
[b]It's more of a loathing for those they consider to not be as 'awesome' as themselves.[/b]

libertarians aren't monolithic...there are multiple strains and multiple takes on those strains

my own, and my take, is uncommon, non-political, and pretty much assumes most people are pretty friggin' awesome

yer buddy, advocate, now he's the one advocatin' for what he calls [i]libertarian fascism[/i]...he believes most folks aren't awesome or capable of runnin' their own affairs

me: I believe the opposite
[/quote]

Then 'you' are the naive one.
[/quote]

In order to let the responsible ones be free, the irresponsible or dumb ones need to be controlled one way or another. They simply aren't/can't going to do it themselves.

[henry quirk]

no, no chips...just principles

surely, as I say, they'll won't do any worse than they do now with ten thousand laws on the books...mebbe, though, with only three little unambiguous inviolate principles, they might do better

There are practically infinite ways those so-called unambiguous principles will be disagreed upon in practice, leaving us exactly where we are today, but with all the lessons of history to relearn.

why would we have re-learn anything?

would minarchy some how magically erase history?

and: sure there'd be disagreements...about three coherent principles..surely that's better than disagreements about ten thousand laws, many which contradict one another

[henry quirk]

It's more of a loathing for those they consider to not be as 'awesome' as themselves.

libertarians aren't monolithic...there are multiple strains and multiple takes on those strains

my own, and my take, is uncommon, non-political, and pretty much assumes most people are pretty friggin' awesome

yer buddy, advocate, now he's the one advocatin' for what he calls libertarian fascism...he believes most folks aren't awesome or capable of runnin' their own affairs

me: I believe the opposite

Then 'you' are the naive one.

well, if humans are so shitty, why is it a good idea to give some of them power over others...currently, that's what every form of government does, you know

“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?” ― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

[Advocate]

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484225 time=1607650129 user_id=472]
[quote=vegetariantaxidermy post_id=484221 time=1607649578 user_id=8006]
[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484208 time=1607647560 user_id=472]
[b]It's more of a loathing for those they consider to not be as 'awesome' as themselves.[/b]

libertarians aren't monolithic...there are multiple strains and multiple takes on those strains

my own, and my take, is uncommon, non-political, and pretty much assumes most people are pretty friggin' awesome

yer buddy, advocate, now he's the one advocatin' for what he calls [i]libertarian fascism[/i]...he believes most folks aren't awesome or capable of runnin' their own affairs

me: I believe the opposite
[/quote]

Then 'you' are the naive one.
[/quote]

well, if humans are do shitty, why is it a good idea to give some of them power over others...currently, that's what every form of government does, you know

“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?” ― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
[/quote]

The people in power probably aren't the right ones but there are definitely people made of finer clay who should be in charge of others, and who are capable of doing so well. Sometimes we call them parents, sometimes leaders. Did i just equate the average person to a child? You bet i did!

[henry quirk]

All else!

Such as...
> the distorted self-serving delusional way you supposedly use/apply the principles
> the fact that you're not the only person on the planet, and your demands/expectations are distorted by your own limited mental state
> you don't own anything
> you are a product of all kinds of influences
> you are a willing pawn and distributor of propaganda
> you don't know what you're doing
> most people don't want to be like you, nor do they want the kind of world that you do
> humankind is an interconnected system -- so your ignorance absolutely deprives others of that which could be better for their life and liberty

(This goes for everyone)

We all affect each other... and you're full of baloney to act like your supposed principles somehow prevent you from being nonsensical.

Those are a few examples of what you're ignoring.

so: what do you suggest instead?

[henry quirk]

The people in power probably aren't the right ones but there are definitely people made of finer clay who should be in charge of others, and who are capable of doing so well. Sometimes we call them parents, sometimes leaders.

can you cite some examples of the finer clay group?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

It's more of a loathing for those they consider to not be as 'awesome' as themselves.

libertarians aren't monolithic...there are multiple strains and multiple takes on those strains

my own, and my take, is uncommon, non-political, and pretty much assumes most people are pretty friggin' awesome

yer buddy, advocate, now he's the one advocatin' for what he calls libertarian fascism...he believes most folks aren't awesome or capable of runnin' their own affairs

me: I believe the opposite

Then 'you' are the naive one.

well, if humans are do shitty, why is it a good idea to give some of them power over others...currently, that's what every form of government does, you know

“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?” ― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

'Some' people are made of a finer clay than others. I believe in equal rights under the law, but that's not the same as saying all people are equal.
Our system isn't perfect, and it's very fragile, but it's all we have at this time and we certainly have far more freedom, and our lives are far easier and more pleasant, than ever before (unless you live in some backward bunghole of a country).