death with dignity

vegetariantaxidermy · Post by **vegetariantaxidermy** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:13 am

Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:47 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:52 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:54 pm Yet you have never actually described this 'utopia' or how it would work.

I wouldn't try to describe it...how free people choose to organize themselves can lead to a whole whack of different outcomes

as for how it would work: take three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turn people loose

Too stupid to see that it's the 'neo-lib' type of govts. that you seem to love that are the more draconian ones, with diminished 'freedoms'.

which govs are those, veg? which govs do I love?

Sarcasm won't make your 'argument' any more compelling.

wasn't makin' an argument; was mockin' you...great fun!

thanks to an Aussie fuckwad we are about to lose a huge chunk of our 'freedom' thanks to a wokie govt. that is desperate to pander to the demands of muslim immigrants, and wants to punish the entire population for its own cock-ups.

they only do what you allow

RIP free speech.

must not mean all that much to you if you let it go without a fight
Oooh, humans 'turned loose'. What a comforting thought. Humans have such a wonderful track record...
How would you know what I'm doing? If you mean have I turned into Boadicea with a flaming chariot, rallying the masses then no. I'm a private person and no one would follow me anyway...

I won't be 'allowed' to criticise islam or any other religion soon so I will say it now. Fuck islam and fuck its followers coming here and dictating to the govt. what laws to put in place to supposedly 'protect' them, and using a shooting to emotionally blackmail the govt. into giving them what they want. We already have laws that make it illegal to go around shooting people and inciting violence. The ONLY possible reason for extra 'hate speech' laws is to kill free speech and prevent ANYONE from voicing an opinion that doesn't conform with the WOKE manifesto! It's about control and nothing else.

And kindly desist from comparing me to that warmongering loon Belinda.
What almost all libertarians miss is that we WERE "turned loose" in all the ways they seem to want, and we formed societies and governments to get away from that nasty, brutish lifestyle.

Exactly, but they (so-called 'libertarians') have some peculiar agenda that they are unwilling or unable to divulge...

Advocate · Post by **Advocate** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:21 am

[quote=vegetariantaxidermy post_id=484196 time=1607645629 user_id=8006]
[quote=Advocate post_id=484193 time=1607644037 user_id=15238]
[quote=vegetariantaxidermy post_id=484191 time=1607640758 user_id=8006]

Oooh, humans 'turned loose'. What a comforting thought. Humans have such a wonderful track record...
How would you know what I'm doing? If you mean have I turned into Boadicea with a flaming chariot, rallying the masses then no. I'm a private person and no one would follow me anyway...

I won't be 'allowed' to criticise islam or any other religion soon so I will say it now. Fuck islam and fuck its followers coming here and dictating to the govt. what laws to put in place to supposedly 'protect' them, and using a shooting to emotionally blackmail the govt. into giving them what they want. We already have laws that make it illegal to go around shooting people and inciting violence. The ONLY possible reason for extra 'hate speech' laws is to kill free speech and prevent ANYONE from voicing an opinion that doesn't conform with the WOKE manifesto! It's about control and nothing else.

And kindly desist from comparing me to that warmongering loon Belinda.
[/quote]

What almost all libertarians miss is that we WERE "turned loose" in all the ways they seem to want, and we formed societies and governments to get away from that nasty, brutish lifestyle.
[/quote]

Exactly, but they (so-called 'libertarians') have some peculiar agenda that they are unwilling or unable to divulge...
[/quote]

I think they believe that because they believe themselves to be capable of personal responsibility that the average person is likewise so capable.

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:30 am

Oooh, humans 'turned loose'. What a comforting thought. Humans have such a wonderful track record...

as I say...

take three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turn people loose

can't imagine they'll do any worse than they do now with ten thousand laws on the books...mebbe, though, with only three little unambiguous inviolate principles, they might do better

And kindly desist from comparing me to that warmongering loon Belinda.

B is a warmonger? that's news to me

vegetariantaxidermy · Post by **vegetariantaxidermy** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:32 am

Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:21 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:13 am
Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:47 am

What almost all libertarians miss is that we WERE "turned loose" in all the ways they seem to want, and we formed societies and governments to get away from that nasty, brutish lifestyle.
Exactly, but they (so-called 'libertarians') have some peculiar agenda that they are unwilling or unable to divulge...
I think they believe that because they believe themselves to be capable of personal responsibility that the average person is likewise so capable.

Surely they can't be that stupid? I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that. I think it's a lot darker. It's more of a loathing for those they consider to not be as 'awesome' as themselves.

vegetariantaxidermy · Post by **vegetariantaxidermy** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:34 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:52 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:54 pm Yet you have never actually described this 'utopia' or how it would work.

I wouldn't try to describe it...how free people choose to organize themselves can lead to a whole whack of different outcomes

as for how it would work: take three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turn people loose

Too stupid to see that it's the 'neo-lib' type of govts. that you seem to love that are the more draconian ones, with diminished 'freedoms'.

which govs are those, veg? which govs do I love?

Sarcasm won't make your 'argument' any more compelling.

wasn't makin' an argument; was mockin' you...great fun!

thanks to an Aussie fuckwad we are about to lose a huge chunk of our 'freedom' thanks to a wokie govt. that is desperate to pander to the demands of muslim immigrants, and wants to punish the entire population for its own cock-ups.

they only do what you allow

RIP free speech.

must not mean all that much to you if you let it go without a fight
Oooh, humans 'turned loose'. What a comforting thought. Humans have such a wonderful track record...
How would you know what I'm doing? If you mean have I turned into Boadicea with a flaming chariot, rallying the masses then no. I'm a private person and no one would follow me anyway...

I won't be 'allowed' to criticise islam or any other religion soon so I will say it now. Fuck islam and fuck its followers coming here and dictating to the govt. what laws to put in place to supposedly 'protect' them, and using a shooting to emotionally blackmail the govt. into giving them what they want. We already have laws that make it illegal to go around shooting people and inciting violence. The ONLY possible reason for extra 'hate speech' laws is to kill free speech and prevent ANYONE from voicing an opinion that doesn't conform with the WOKE manifesto! It's about control and nothing else.

And kindly desist from comparing me to that warmongering loon Belinda.

''Do you also believe the government should be so small that it can't force people to defend their country?''

Only a warmonger would ask such a question.

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:35 am

What almost all libertarians miss is that we WERE "turned loose" in all the ways they seem to want, and we formed societies and governments to get away from that nasty, brutish lifestyle.

never suggested we return to a nasty, brutish lifestyle

as I say...

take three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turn people loose

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:37 am

they (so-called 'libertarians') have some peculiar agenda that they are unwilling or unable to divulge...

not me...I've posted my agenda all over the damn place

as I say...

take three simple principles...

*a man belongs to himself

*a man's life, liberty, and property are his

*a man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property

...and turn people loose

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:39 am

I think they believe that because they believe themselves to be capable of personal responsibility that the average person is likewise so capable.

they are

vegetariantaxidermy · Post by **vegetariantaxidermy** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:41 am

No one is that stupid. Let's be honest here...

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:46 am

It's more of a loathing for those they consider to not be as 'awesome' as themselves.

libertarians aren't monolithic...there are multiple strains and multiple takes on those strains

my own, and my take, is uncommon, non-political, and pretty much assumes most people are pretty friggin' awesome

yer buddy, advocate, now he's the one advocatin' for what he calls libertarian fascism...he believes most folks aren't awesome or capable of runnin' their own affairs

me: I believe the opposite

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:49 am

''Do you also believe the government should be so small that it can't force people to defend their country?''

Only a warmonger would ask such a question.

that ain't warmongerin'; that just naiveté

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:49 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:41 am No one is that stupid. Let's be honest here...

context, please

Advocate · Post by **Advocate** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:50 am

[quote="henry quirk" post_id=484205 time=1607647151 user_id=472]
[b]I think they believe that because they believe themselves to be capable of personal responsibility that the average person is likewise so capable.[/b]

they are
[/quote]

If people left to their own devices could manage themselves, we'd have run out of ideas for Westerns a long time ago.

So... back to death with dignity...

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:51 am

I don't get the joke

Lacewing · Post by **Lacewing** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:53 am

vegetariantaxidermy to Henry wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:58 pm Well your ridiculous vision of your 'utopia' is completely unworkable and goes entirely against human nature and evolution. Humans don't WANT to live like that because it's dangerous and miserable, when they want to be comfortable and happy. They want to see their children grow past the age of one. They want help when they are sick and in pain. It MIGHT work if there were only about ten people on the planet, and they EACH had their own country. Then you could sit there all alone with your big gun, paranoid and completely insane, repeating the word 'freedom' ad infinitum with no one to hear it (which means that for all intents and purposes you wouldn't actuallly exist)...

Too funny!

Excellent description of the reality of Henry's nonsense position and vision.

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