putting religion in it's proper place

[Advocate]

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=478781 time=1604674344 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=478780 time=1604672394 user_id=15238]
She said first stage and you substituted the entire package. Leave her alone.
[/quote]
Heh. "White knighting," eh? :D

Nobody's being hurt here, chum. We're debating whether it's okay to trivialize genocide by using it to describe anything one vaguely doesn't like. I'm suggesting not.
[/quote]

Straw manning is not debate. It's the principles of Truth i defend. Go away.

[Immanuel Can]

It's the principles of Truth i defend.

Put on a leotard and fly around Metropolis, then. You can also defend "justice and the American way" at the same time.

[Advocate]

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=478786 time=1604676811 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=478784 time=1604676470 user_id=15238]
It's the principles of Truth i defend.
[/quote]
Put on a leotard and fly around Metropolis, then. You can also defend "justice and the American way" at the same time. :D
[/quote]

I see where you are going wrong. You believe truth and justice are compatible with the American way. They are not. Truth is that you're not doing philosophy here. Justice would be for you to be shamed publicly. The American way would be to give you money and elect you to something.

[Immanuel Can]

I see where you are going wrong. You believe truth and justice are compatible with the American way.

Now you're "going wrong." I see you never saw "Superman", and missed the point.

But you can still have the leotard, if you hurry.

[Advocate]

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=478790 time=1604677628 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=478789 time=1604677319 user_id=15238]
I see where you are going wrong. You believe truth and justice are compatible with the American way.
[/quote]
Now you're "going wrong." :D I see you never saw "Superman", and missed the point.

But you can still have the leotard, if you hurry.
[/quote]

See, i already know there is no point discussing anything with you, but i just happen to be in the mood to waste time sometimes. You can keep your leotard, it suits your variety of tardedness.

[Belinda]

However it's wise to see the earlier signs of genocide and try to take steps to alter attitudes to ethnic minorities . That would be to learn a lesson from history.

Except that there WAS no "genocide" in the case of the American eastern seaboard. What happened was only what always happened whenever a stronger, more developed civilization ran into a less-developed one. The less-developed one lost.

So I suggest we reserve the word "genocide" for referring to something that actually stands a chance of being appropriately labeled thereby. To do otherwise is to trivialize real genocides.

I see. You define genocide by violent slaughter. By the time violent slaughter has happened it's already too late to save lives that matter.

[Advocate]

[quote=Belinda post_id=478794 time=1604678178 user_id=12709]
[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=478783 time=1604676438 user_id=9431]
[quote=Belinda post_id=478782 time=1604676116 user_id=12709]
However it's wise to see the earlier signs of genocide and try to take steps to alter attitudes to ethnic minorities . That would be to learn a lesson from history.
[/quote]
Except that there WAS no "genocide" in the case of the American eastern seaboard. What happened was only what always happened whenever a stronger, more developed civilization ran into a less-developed one. The less-developed one lost.

So I suggest we reserve the word "genocide" for referring to something that actually stands a chance of being appropriately labeled thereby. To do otherwise is to trivialize [i]real [/i]genocides.
[/quote]

I see. You define genocide by violent slaughter. By the time violent slaughter has happened it's already too late to save lives that matter.
[/quote]

Genocide is the attempt to eliminate a race or population of people entirely.

[Immanuel Can]

Genocide is the attempt to eliminate a race or population of people entirely.

That's the point, Sport. If you know anything at all about American history, you know that that wasn't anything anyone was "attempting" to do. Moreover, if they had wanted to do it, they could have.

You can't call all accidental side-effects of history "genocide" -- not and leave that word with any meaning at all.

[Advocate]

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=478796 time=1604679071 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=478795 time=1604678880 user_id=15238]
Genocide is the attempt to eliminate a race or population of people entirely.
[/quote]
That's the point, Sport. If you know anything at all about American history, you know that that wasn't anything anyone was "attempting" to do. Moreover, if they had [i]wanted[/i] to do it, they could have.

You can't call all accidental side-effects of history "genocide" -- not and leave that word with any meaning at all.
[/quote]

I don't know that genocide was in mind, but the first steps toward genocide certainly were. Shaka when the walls fell.

[Immanuel Can]

I don't know that genocide was in mind, but the first steps toward genocide certainly were.

They certainly were not. The first settlers had zero by way of virological awareness, as you must surely know. They couldn't possibly have "intended" to kill all the aboriginals; and if they'd wanted to do it, the could have done it by means they understood.

So using "genocide" for things like that, or for the Palestinians, as B. did, is just nonsense. If the Palestinians laid down their weapons today, they'd all be alive tomorrow; if the Israeli's did, they'd be dead by morning. That, too, is very obvious.

So let's have no more hogwash about "genocides" that aren't. Those who have really suffered that sort of thing deserve proper respect for what they've suffered.

[Belinda]

Genocide is the attempt to eliminate a race or population of people entirely.

That's the point, Sport. If you know anything at all about American history, you know that that wasn't anything anyone was "attempting" to do. Moreover, if they had wanted to do it, they could have.

You can't call all accidental side-effects of history "genocide" -- not and leave that word with any meaning at all.

But the theft of other people's lands does result in destruction of their cultures and poverty. We ought not to label these effects "collateral damage".

[Advocate]

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=478803 time=1604681025 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=478802 time=1604680661 user_id=15238]
I don't know that genocide was in mind, but the first steps toward genocide certainly were.
[/quote]
They certainly were not. The first settlers had zero by way of virological awareness, as you must surely know. They couldn't [i]possibly[/i] have "intended" to kill all the aboriginals; and if they'd wanted to do it, the could have done it by means they understood.

So using "genocide" for things like that, or for the Palestinians, as B. did, is just nonsense. If the Palestinians laid down their weapons today, they'd all be alive tomorrow; if the Israeli's did, they'd be dead by morning. That, too, is very obvious.

So let's have no more hogwash about "genocides" that aren't. Those who have [i]really[/i] suffered that sort of thing deserve proper respect for what they've suffered.
[/quote]

Intending to shuffle those savages off to a reservation is a first step toward genocide, and murders because of race were very common and not particularly denigrated. There were very many first steps approved and taken, but you don't seem to understand the basic English that Belinda is using.. Stop talking about genocide if you want to be taken seriously. She never mentioned genocide. I could rail at you for misusing individual words too, but that wouldn't get to the point that your entire thought process is incoherent.

Your next response will be that yes, she did mention genocide. You're wrong, and you're disingenuous. She mentioned the beginnings of genocide and you're arguing that she's wrong without referencing the beginnings of genocide at all. Please stop.

[Immanuel Can]

But the theft of other people's lands does result in destruction of their cultures and poverty. We ought not to label these effects "collateral damage".

"Theft"? I can see you don't know the history there. The Palestinians left when they feared getting caught in the impending and intended Arab war of genocide against Israel. Blame the Arabs and their desire for genocide, if you want to blame anybody for that. And you're right about this much "collateral damage" is the wrong name for a deliberate decision to abandon a people to genuine genocide; that's what it amounted to when the Palestinians sided with the Arab nations that wanted to destroy Israel.

When was the last time you heard a Jewish person say of the Palestinians, "We will push them into the sea," or "One is too many"? Instead, they've repeatedly been offered permanent peace and a homeland, which they refuse because they still cherish the hope that the Jews can be killed. Meanwhile, the surrounding Arab nations have taken in exactly zero "refugees," and prefer to keep the Palestinians miserable, violent and angry on the border of Israel.

If there's any "genocidal" intent there, it goes one way.

[Immanuel Can]

Intending to shuffle those savages off to a reservation...

The first settlers had no such idea. Nobody even knew what a "reservation" was, then. The system wasn't even invented until the late 18th century, and even then the goals were twofold: a) assimilation into civilization, if possible, and b) preservation, if not. There was no "genocide" planned then either.

They "intended" no such thing, and could not have. No "reservations" existed.

Please stop.

Why? The facts bother you?

[Sculptor]

More harm has been done in the name of religion than any other cause but profit. And to say that most of it was not good or legitimate religion is another mark against it for being so easily corruptible.

Jesus was a socialist.
How is it that in the USA it seems to be the right-wing who are the most obsessively Christian.
How can it be that Trump ordered the police to crush a peacefull BLM rally in DC, so that he could wave a Bible for a photoshoot after dragging citizens off the patio of the church in chains?

Would a socialist use genocide as justice?

Lest we forget, Jesus is to use Armageddon and genocide when he returns.

Regards
DL

Jesus is dead.