There is no personal God or impersonal God.

[Dontaskme]

So some are now wondering who the actual, so called, "idiot" is here now.

If the shoe fits wear it fool.

So, 'I' am a "fool" now, correct?

Yes, but you, namely ( 'I' ) do not have to believe 'I' am a fool.

Shall I be the last idiot or do you want to be the last idiot?

What is this in relation to, EXACTLY?

It's in relation to the discussion you are engaging in.

I was just pointing out the contradictions you were making, and just pointing this out after 'you' called 'me' an "idiot".

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

[Age]

If the shoe fits wear it fool.

So, 'I' am a "fool" now, correct?

Yes, but you, namely ( 'I' ) do not have to believe 'I' am a fool.

So, WHY do you say, and/or believe, that 'I' am a "fool"?

I, OBVIOUSLY, could NOT believe this.

Shall I be the last idiot or do you want to be the last idiot?

What is this in relation to, EXACTLY?

It's in relation to the discussion you are engaging in.

But is there an 'idiot'?

I was just pointing out the contradictions you were making, and just pointing this out after 'you' called 'me' an "idiot".

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

[Dontaskme]

So, 'I' am a "fool" now, correct?

Yes, but you, namely ( 'I' ) do not have to believe 'I' am a fool.

So, WHY do you say, and/or believe, that 'I' am a "fool"?

I, OBVIOUSLY, could NOT believe this.

WHY not believe?

No belief means no fool, fool. So no need to be fooled by beliefs.

But is there an 'idiot'?

If you believe there is, then yes.

[Age]

Yes, but you, namely ( 'I' ) do not have to believe 'I' am a fool.

So, WHY do you say, and/or believe, that 'I' am a "fool"?

I, OBVIOUSLY, could NOT believe this.

WHY not believe?

No belief means no fool, fool. So no need to be fooled by beliefs.

Have you forgotten that I have NO beliefs?

But is there an 'idiot'?

If you believe there is, then yes.

You were the only one calling "another", an 'idiot'.

It does appear here that you have FORGOTTEN that I do NOT believe ANY thing.

[Dontaskme]

It does appear here that you have FORGOTTEN that I do NOT believe ANY thing.

I know, how can I possibly forget when I have you to keep reminding me.

So why do you make assumptions that others have beliefs, I've heard you talk about beliefs many times, as if you secretly carry them around in your pocket so that no one can see them.

You never make any coherent sense when it comes to one on one discussion on any subject, please shut up with your silly, childish, word slaughtering games.

[Age]

It does appear here that you have FORGOTTEN that I do NOT believe ANY thing.

I know, how can I possibly forget when I have you to keep reminding me.

Have you ever considered that if 'you' STOPPED saying, and/or telling me, that I believe some things, then I would STOP reminding you that I DO NOT?

So why do you make assumptions that others have beliefs, I've heard you talk about beliefs many times, as if you secretly carry them around in your pocket so that no one can see them.

Is this what you ASSUME?

WHEN have I EVER 'made assumptions' that, so called, "others" have beliefs?

Some people, themselves, TELL ME that "they HAVE BELIEFS". Some even INSIST that they can NOT exist without BELIEFS. Although, some "others" tell me that they have NO beliefs, as well. So, I do NOT have to 'make ANY assumptions' with these people because they have ALREADY CLARIFIED with me their VIEWS. With ALL "others" I just REMAIN OPEN.

Also, when, and if, one cares to read back through my writings then what they will SEE is that I actually use words like, "think and/or believe" in relation to "others". I do NOT assume ANY thing here. But, OBVIOUSLY, 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others".

You never make any coherent sense when it comes to one on one discussion on any subject, please shut up with your silly, childish, word slaughtering games.

What about in 'group discussions', on subjects, then do I ever make any coherent sense?

[Dontaskme]

Also, when, and if, one cares to read back through my writings then what they will SEE is that I actually use words like, "think and/or believe" in relation to "others". I do NOT assume ANY thing here. But, OBVIOUSLY, 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others".

Why are you so invested in using words like "think and/or believe" in relation to "others"? but then go on to say you make no assumptions nor have any beliefs here. And then claim 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others".

How do you know that, if like you say, you have no beliefs? ..how do you KNOW 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others"

If it's because they TELL YOU... then why would it matter one little bit to you what others tell you, if you have no beliefs and make no assumptions about anything? what's the point in participating in disscussions .. why would you bother? Surely discussion is about garnering and gleaning from data collected.

So why bother being invested in what others are telling you ? You've already admitted you know thee actual truth of things, so I have absolutely no idea why or what it is you are trying to communicate here at all.

And also, what is in it for you here, what do you want from others that you don't already know yourself?

Do you actually know any of the people you are talking to here personally, have you met them in person, if not why are you talking to random strangers on the internet for?

.

[Age]

Also, when, and if, one cares to read back through my writings then what they will SEE is that I actually use words like, "think and/or believe" in relation to "others". I do NOT assume ANY thing here. But, OBVIOUSLY, 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others".

Why are you so invested in using words like "think and/or believe" in relation to "others"? but then go on to say you make no assumptions nor have any beliefs here. And then claim 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others".

How do you know that, if like you say, you have no beliefs? ..how do you KNOW 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others"

If it's because they TELL YOU... then why would it matter one little bit to you what others tell you, if you have no beliefs and make no assumptions about anything? what's the point in participating in disscussions .. why would you bother? Surely discussion is about garnering and gleaning from data collected.

So why bother being invested in what others are telling you ? You've already admitted you know thee actual truth of things, so I have absolutely no idea why or what it is you are trying to communicate here at all.

And also, what is in it for you here, what do you want from others that you don't already know yourself?

Do you actually know any of the people you are talking to here personally, have you met them in person, if not why are you talking to random strangers on the internet for?

.

Great. Clarifying questions. Although your questions are NOT asked from a Truly OPEN perspective, as your PRESUMPTIONS can be CLEARLY SEEN in the questions, at least you did ask some CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, which is what I do ask for, and do seek.

1. "Why are you so invested in using words like "think and/or believe" in relation to "others"? but then go on to say you make no assumptions nor have any beliefs here. And then claim 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others"."

The reason WHY I am, supposedly and allegedly, "so invested", in using words like, 'think and/or believe', in relation to "others" is because doing so SHOWS that I am actually doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of ASSUMING, which is what you claim I do.

You asked me a clarifying question, as well as made made a claim about me, "as if I was doing some thing". I was just making it VERY CLEAR that IF ANY one did decide to look back through my writings, then they could CLEARLY SEE that I have NOT been doing, what you ASSUME and CLAIM I have been doing. SEE, 'you' make ASSUMPTIONS about 'me', which are based solely on your own past experiences, but which you BELIEVE are true. You base these ASSUMPTIONS of yours from the words that I write (and some times which you THINK I write). I am just making absolutely CLEAR that if, and when, the ACTUAL WORDS that I do actually use are LOOKED AT, then what can be CLEARLY SEEN is that some of your ASSUMPTIONS, ALLEGATIONS, and CLAIMS are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY FALSE and WRONG.

And this is WHY I am "so invested" in using VERY SPECIFIC terms like, 'think and/or believe', in relation to "others". (Thank you for the clarifying question here).

Now, you are CORRECT in that I do say that I do NOT have ANY beliefs. BUT, you are INCORRECT in that I do say, "I make no assumptions". I may have said that 'I make no assumptions HERE", in relation to a specific topic, issue, or detail. But I do not recall ever saying, "I make no assumptions", in relation to 'at all'. This is because I, sometimes, do make assumptions, completely unintentionally, and completely unfortunately. And, if and when I do, then I would REALLY love for them to be POINTED OUT, REVEALED and/or SHOWN. Look, what I have actually said is; 'I do not like to make assumptions'. See, it is EXTREMELY simple AND easy to NEVER have a 'belief', but, it is NOT as simple AND easy to NEVER make an 'assumption'.

You are CORRECT in that I do claim that 'thinking and/or believing' is happening within "others". This is because this can NOT be refuted.


2. "How do you know that, if like you say, you have no beliefs? ..how do you KNOW 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others" "

To answer your question; How do I know 'that', if like I say, 'I have no beliefs', firstly, there needs to be CLARITY about what has 'beliefs', themselves, got to do with what is KNOWN and/or what is NOT KNOWN?

But to answer your question; How do I know that 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within those "others"? is because like with ALL Knowing, Itself, it comes down to KNOWING whether EVERY one could accept and agree with 'it'. If EVERY one could agree with and accept some 'thing' like, within "others" there is 'thinking' happening, going on, or arising, then that is How I KNOW. But within SOME "others" there is 'believing' instead of 'thinking'. which is, what is called, a 'thought process' anyway.

See, to UNDERSTAND this FULLY one needs to KNOW what "others" actually ARE, and what and how 'thinking' is, and how it actually works. But to UNDERSTAND this FULLY one needs to KNOW how the Mind and the brain actually work, as well. 'TO KNOW', Itself, is reached, or achieved, when one is able to LOOK AT and SEE things from EVERY thing's perspective, as thee One, and ONLY True, 'Thing', which is; also known as Everything, Its Self. Being able to LOOK and SEE from thee One, and ONLY, True perspective, then this is how, and when, one KNOWS things like 'that', and EVERY thing else. Or, in other words, is KNOWING, Itself.

3. "If it's because they TELL YOU... then why would it matter one little bit to you what others tell you, if you have no beliefs and make no assumptions about anything? what's the point in participating in disscussions .. why would you bother? Surely discussion is about garnering and gleaning from data collected."

WHY what "others" TELL ME matters, is because until what I 'think', in regards to "others", is CLARIFIED by "others", then what 'it' is I 'think' remains only in the 'thinking' stage, and NOT in the 'KNOWING' stage. By the way, how I KNOW 'thinking' and/or 'believing' is happening within "those others" is NOT just because they TELL ME. 'Thinking and/or believing is happening, in "others",' is an irrefutable fact.

What is the point in participating in discussions is to learn more, and anew.

Why I bother is so that I can learn more, and/or anew.

To me, discussions can be about more than just about garnering and gleaning from data collected.

Whether I have beliefs and assumptions or have NO beliefs and assumptions, then this has absolutely NO bearing at all how I KNOW some things.


4. 'So why bother being invested in what others are telling you ? You've already admitted you know thee actual truth of things, so I have absolutely no idea why or what it is you are trying to communicate here at all.'

Have you ever noticed just how many times you ask me questions, but have ALREADY presumed what the answers are? You actually believe that you ALREADY KNOW what the answer is to your own question, which you actually posed to "another" before the "other" even gets a chance to reply. You then go on to ask further questions, but which are based on your own ALREADY PRESUMED answers. Some of which are just completely PLAINLY WRONG.

Why I bother being invested in what "others" are telling me is so that I can learn better how to communicate with 'you', human beings.

By admitting that I ALREADY KNOW thee actual truth of things in NO WAY means that 'I' can NOT learn more, NOR anew. Admitting that does NOT mean that I can NOT learn how to communicate better. By LISTENING, or 'being invested', to what "others" are telling me, then I can, and am, learning more, and anew. That is; I am learning how to communicate better. And remember I have NO real intention of learning how to communicate better with the people in the forum. I am just using 'you', people, for my own purposes.

The reason WHY you have "absolutely NO idea why or what it is that I am trying to communicate here at all" is because I have NOT REALLY tried to communicate ANY thing at all here. In fact all I have REALLY done here is tried to gain CLARITY, from you. I began, in this thread, by just asking you a CLARIFYING QUESTION. You made the CLAIM; "it is the lie 'we' all fall for", so I just asked you to CLARIFY WHY 'you' also 'fall for the lie'?

The ONLY REAL thing that is being communicated/SHOWN here is your inability to CLARIFY what you actually mean and your inability to SEE the actual lies that you fall for as well. See, when you can SEE what thee actual Truth IS, then you do NOT 'fall for the lies'.


5. "And also, what is in it for you here, what do you want from others that you don't already know yourself?"

What is in 'being invested in "others", for me here', in this forum, is that my ability to be HEARD, and to be UNDERSTOOD better, is growing. Although I am NOT YET testing this ability, here, in this forum, I can SEE what I need to change, and how to change 'it', for the better. What I want from "others" is to just HEAR what I have to say, from a Truly OPEN perspective. Once I can learn how to OPEN 'you', human beings, up, here, in this forum, then I will have gained the necessary instructions to begin My Book. Until then I am just in a process of learning how to communicate better with 'you', human beings. But what I actually want from "others", that I do NOT ALREADY KNOW thy Self is, NOTHING. I have the knowledge of how to return 'you', adult human beings, back into the Truly OPEN and INTELLIGENT beings that you ALL once were. Truthfully, 'i' am actually only procrastinating because of 'fear'. That is; within this human being writer there is a deep seeded fear of having its words being misinterpreted or taken out of context, and then of having those words being judged wrongly and relayed, or passed on, incorrectly.

What is in it for 'Me' here is that, eventually, 'we' ALL live together in peace and in harmony, united together as One. There is NO rush for this to take begin so the more this writer can learn in how to communicate better, then the more better 'I' can be, and will be, HEARD, and UNDERSTOOD, for who, and what, 'I' Truly AM.

6. "Do you actually know any of the people you are talking to here personally, have you met them in person, if not why are you talking to random strangers on the internet for?"

Yes, I actually KNOW the 'people' that I am talking to here. This is because I KNOW what 'people' REALLY ARE. As for KNOWING EACH one of them, 'personally', then this can only Truly come from ' being Truly invested, IN EACH and EVERY one of 'them' '.

LISTENING to 'people' is meeting them 'in person'. So, for EVERY person that I have LISTENED TO, then I have met them, in person. But if you would like to discuss, what you are 'trying to' get at, then it could be and would be SHOWN that meeting people, 'in person', does NOT mean what you think and/or believe it does.

To me, a 'stranger' is only some one who I have NOT met. If I have ALREADY talked with some one on the internet (or anywhere else), then they are, OBVIOUSLY, NOT 'strangers' NOR even 'random strangers', to me.

[Dontaskme]

Thanks for your response Age.

So all in all when it gets right down to the brass-tacks of the matter, you're all about writing a BOOK.

Sigh! why am I not surprised, just another book writer out to make an extra bob or two no doubt. Good luck with the book, I hope you continue to find lots of willing guinea pigs who can help you with your cause, your need to be heard and your need to learn things anew.

But this is where we really do part company now, so I'm out. I'd actually die from embarrassment attempting to SELL to other people truths they already know, it's just not the way I do things. Urg!

The reason WHY I am, supposedly and allegedly, "so invested", in using words like, 'think and/or believe', in relation to "others" is because doing so SHOWS that I am actually doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of ASSUMING, which is what you claim I do.

Yeah, the opposite is always true too, so thanks for informing me of what I already know. K bye.

[Dontaskme]

Age, if you are going to give your book away for free, then ignore what I said earlier, I was just making a presumption.

I would pay people to read my book - but I wouldn't dare dream of expecting them to pay to read it.

[Age]

Thanks for your response Age.

So all in all when it gets right down to the brass-tacks of the matter, you're all about writing a BOOK.

Considering the amount of times that I have previously mentioned this, some are very surprised that you only BECAME AWARE of this, just now.

Sigh! why am I not surprised, just another book writer out to make an extra bob or two no doubt.

LOL YET ANOTHER ASSUMPTION, which, by the way, ONCE AGAIN, could NOT be any FURTHER from THEE ACTUAL TRUTH OF THINGS.

Good luck with the book, I hope you continue to find lots of willing guinea pigs who can help you with your cause, your need to be heard and your need to learn things anew.

But these, by themselves, are OBVIOUSLY NOT 'needs' AT ALL.

They are just a NATURAL part of Life, and living.

You have also OBVIOUSLY MISUNDERSTOOD things AGAIN here.

But this is where we really do part company now, so I'm out.

'you' have said this before, a number of times, I will add.

I'd actually die from embarrassment attempting to SELL to other people truths they already know, it's just not the way I do things. Urg!

'you' would be the FIRST to die from 'embarrassment'.

Also, 'you' would have to speak thee Truth FIRST, BEFORE you could even begin to attempt to "SELL" 'truths'. As can be EVIDENCED here in this quote of yours, you RARELY to TELL thee ACTUAL Truth of things. By the way, BEFORE you could speak thee Truth 'you' would have to KNOW thee Truth.

Do 'you' KNOW thee Truth of things?

The reason WHY I am, supposedly and allegedly, "so invested", in using words like, 'think and/or believe', in relation to "others" is because doing so SHOWS that I am actually doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of ASSUMING, which is what you claim I do.

Yeah, the opposite is always true too, so thanks for informing me of what I already know. K bye.

LOL Once again, ANOTHER CLAIM, which on first glance appears completely UNTRUE.

So, HOW EXACTLY is YOUR CLAIM that "the opposite of statements is ALWAYS TRUE TOO" actually True at all?

Let us SEE if the one known as "dontaskme" is even ABLE to back up and support its CLAIMS that it makes.

[Age]

Age, if you are going to give your book away for free, then ignore what I said earlier, I was just making a presumption.

I would pay people to read my book - but I wouldn't dare dream of expecting them to pay to read it.

I would NOT use money to coerce ANY one to read my book because that would be in complete contradiction of the purpose of the book.

[Dontaskme]

I would NOT use money to coerce ANY one to read my book because that would be in complete contradiction of the purpose of the book.

That's good to hear.

I mean who in their right sane mind would want to pay for a pack of lies. Truth is free, it's not for sale.

We're done, bye.

[Age]

I would NOT use money to coerce ANY one to read my book because that would be in complete contradiction of the purpose of the book.

That's good to hear.

I mean who in their right sane mind would want to pay for a pack of lies. Truth is free, it's not for sale.

Lies can be for free, and not for sale also.

Anyway, there is NO one who has 'their' mind. This is just ANOTHER one of the lies 'you', human beings, tell each other/"your" 'selves'.

We're done, bye.

But you said, "this is where we REALLY do part company now, so I'm out." two of your posts, to me, earlier.

So, I will wait till I SEE it, before I accept it.

[Dontaskme]

I would NOT use money to coerce ANY one to read my book because that would be in complete contradiction of the purpose of the book.

That's good to hear.

I mean who in their right sane mind would want to pay for a pack of lies. Truth is free, it's not for sale.

Lies can be for free, and not for sale also.

Anyway, there is NO one who has 'their' mind. This is just ANOTHER one of the lies 'you', human beings, tell each other/"your" 'selves'.

That's true, lies are truth which is free, and not for sale.