Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:34 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:01 pm
The 3 cops who watched their detainee being murdered are examples of so-called good cops.
"Murder"?
Do you know a detainee was "murdered"?
That requires intent. And "good"? Who said that?
But your hypothesis, then, has to be that the officer involved planned to kill "a black man," or GF personally, and then went out and did it deliberately. Is that the version of events you're spinning?
As for the other officers, don't you think it possible that they could have been, say, "incompetent"? Or perhaps "overwhelmed by lack of understanding of what was happening?" Could they have been "badly trained," or "rookies without enough experience to handle a complex situation," or maybe just human beings who froze and didn't know what to do? Is it not even possible that nobody involved intended to "murder" anyone at all, or even thought that GF was doing more than being stoned out of his gourd, and lying about what was happening to him?
In short, isn't any alternate explanation even plausible?
How have you proved that there was murder, that the three cops knew that's what was happening, and that they just stood by and watched?
Or are you just spinning a version of events you don't KNOW is true, but would LIKE to believe is true?
Murder is a legal matter already. And we already have laws that are pretty much as stringent as can be against that act. So we surely don't need more on that, unless you now want to push for the death penalty, perhaps.
You’re full of shit and completely off base here.It’s as if you read some post other than mine, became disoriented and mistakenly replied to the post you didn’t read.
At issue: what are the criteria I used for labeling some cops as so-called good cops? Why must plans and intentions be part of murder? Why do you think I referenced a race?
You said, “ Do you know a detainee was "murdered"?
That requires intent.”
Murder is the unlawful taking of a human life. Intent has no place in 3rd degree murder (I.e.voluntary and involuntary manslaughter). Pre-planning has nothing to do with 3rd degree murder (as well as 2nd degree, I believe).
You: “And "good"? Who said that?”
I did, on the basis that any cop who isn’t complicit in the unnecessary application of lethal force. Those who are not actively applying force but do nothing to stop it are faux good, or so-called.
You: “But your hypothesis, then, has to be that the officer involved planned to kill "a black man," or GF personally, and then went out and did it deliberately. Is that the version of events you're spinning?
”
My hypothesis isn’t that at all. I have an entirely different hypothesis than what you have imagined and insanely attributed to me.
A cop, acting within the parameters of a department policy, an unlawful policy, brought about the death, I.e. killed a man in custody and under control at the time of death.
That policy may have depicted this form of choke hold as a restraint, by it is, nonetheless, an application of force to the neck, and it is a lethal application, as evidenced by the resultant death that occurred.
Had the officer ceased to apply pressure to the man’s neck, the man might have escaped arrest—not an act that justifies lethal force. The arrestee might then have gone on to attempt to detonate a nuclear bomb, but ho one knows that nor has evidence to suppose that.
You: “a black man,"
Nowhere did I allege that this was a racial incident. It has already been shown that there is no evidence that any of the officers were racist nor that they were engaged in racist activity.
Although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, the reverse was in fact an important element in arriving at a judgment or interpretation of what took place
You: “As for the other officers, don't you think it possible that they could have been, say, "incompetent"? Or perhaps "overwhelmed by lack of understanding of what was happening?" Could they have been "badly trained," or "rookies without enough experience to handle a complex situation," or maybe just human beings who froze and didn't know what to do? Is it not even possible that nobody involved intended to "murder" anyone at all, or even that GF was doing more than being stoned out of his gourd, and lying about what was happening to him?”
The excuses you pose for the other officers don’t change the fact that they didn’t intervene or object when the hey had the clear opportunity to do so.
And again, motivation and intent have nothing to do with the crime of 3rd degree murder.
You: “In short, isn't any alternate explanation even plausible?
“
My explanation is certainly a plausible alternate to the straw version you invented for me.
You: “How have you proved that there was murder, that the three cops knew that's what was happening, and that they just stood by and watched?
Or are you just spinning a version of events you don't KNOW is true, but would LIKE to believe is true?
”
Murder is the unlawful killing of another. Can you say that that didn’t happen?
The 3 other cops indeed just stood by and watched. No matter what was going through their minds, they allowed a murder to take place, while they have sworn to protect the lives of the public.
Admittedly, I don’t have absolute knowledge of the events in question and my viewpoint is limited, but I make my statements as a direct result of my direct observations of the video provided by a number of news outlets. Granted, these videos are only the ones selected to be shown by editors who may have an agenda, but nonetheless I make my statements based on what I saw and added nothing that might be assumed to have occurred.
You: “Murder is a legal matter already. And we already have laws that are pretty much as stringent as can be against that act. So we surely don't need more on that, unless you now want to push for the death penalty, perhaps.”
First, you state the obvious. Second, the death penalty is not part of this thread. If I were to say anything about the death penalty in connection with this discussion, I would point out that George Floyd received the death penalty without benefit of trial. Furthermore, the death penalty is inordinately severe for the crime the officers could have actually observed, that of resisting arrest.
Finally this, Immanual: do not impute to me, or anyone else if you want to be respected and credible, your own construction of what I am thinking, whether for a straw fabrication or any other reason unknowable by me.
