commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:52 am
You’re right—changing instructions, directions, policies and procedures will not change the situation. You have to change the culture, because culture trumps training every day of the week.
As for the police chief saying and doing the right things promptly after an incident, that’s an important step but one hat will have little if any effect on the culture of the frontline cops on the street and in their patrol cars.
What "culture" are you concerned about? I know you mean "police culture," obviously; but what particular feature of that "culture" do you think is the cause of the problem?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:51 am
What "culture" are you concerned about? I know you mean "police culture," obviously; but what particular feature of that "culture" do you think is the cause of the problem?
Causes are immaterial in complex domains. Outcomes can be affected by altering behaviour.
I was perplexed when I heard on TV that the kids feel safer without a police presence in their schools. This seemed like some kind of weird Science Fiction reality. It turns out that it is the Black kids that feel safer without the Police. The White kids don't feel safer without the Police. You would think that with the history of school shootings that all the kids would feel safer with a Police presence. Well there you have it, Exhibit A for the damage that the Liberal/Media/Politician Anti-Cop and Racist Cop Brainwashing of Black communities has caused. This is pathetic. Will the Liberal/Media/Politicians ever stop this insanity? Probably not as long as it brings in Democratic votes. The Liberal/Media/Politicians obviously don't care what happens to the Black kids as long as the votes keep coming in.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:28 pm
I was perplexed when I heard on TV that the kids feel safer without a police presence in their schools. This seemed like some kind of weird Science Fiction reality. It turns out that it is the Black kids that feel safer without the Police. The White kids don't feel safer without the Police. You would think that with the history of school shootings that all the kids would feel safer with a Police presence. Well there you have it, Exhibit A for the damage that the Liberal/Media/Politician Anti-Cop and Racist Cop Brainwashing of Black communities has caused. This is pathetic. Will the Liberal/Media/Politicians ever stop this insanity? Probably not as long as it brings in Democratic votes. The Liberal/Media/Politicians obviously don't care what happens to the Black kids as long as the votes keep coming in.
You are totally insane. What could possibly feel safe about fearing massacres to such an extent that you need armed officers of the state in a fucking school?
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:28 pm
I was perplexed when I heard on TV that the kids feel safer without a police presence in their schools. This seemed like some kind of weird Science Fiction reality. It turns out that it is the Black kids that feel safer without the Police. The White kids don't feel safer without the Police. You would think that with the history of school shootings that all the kids would feel safer with a Police presence. Well there you have it, Exhibit A for the damage that the Liberal/Media/Politician Anti-Cop and Racist Cop Brainwashing of Black communities has caused. This is pathetic. Will the Liberal/Media/Politicians ever stop this insanity? Probably not as long as it brings in Democratic votes. The Liberal/Media/Politicians obviously don't care what happens to the Black kids as long as the votes keep coming in.
So the White kids see mass shooters as a threat and the Black kids see police officers as a threat. And you say that the liberal media is responsible for the racial difference. Please explain this causal connection.
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:52 am
You’re right—changing instructions, directions, policies and procedures will not change the situation. You have to change the culture, because culture trumps training every day of the week.
As for the police chief saying and doing the right things promptly after an incident, that’s an important step but one hat will have little if any effect on the culture of the frontline cops on the street and in their patrol cars.
What "culture" are you concerned about? I know you mean "police culture," obviously; but what particular feature of that "culture" do you think is the cause of the problem?
In other words, what has to be changed?
The bias of the bad cops and—wait! Realistically that can’t be changed. We’ll just have to reintroduce these cops to the job market, because they aren’t a good fit for the job they have.
We’ll also need to change the behavior of the good cops, a task that is difficult but one which can be approached through affective training and an appropriate reward and punishment system.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:51 am
What "culture" are you concerned about? I know you mean "police culture," obviously; but what particular feature of that "culture" do you think is the cause of the problem?
Causes are immaterial in complex domains. Outcomes can be affected by altering behaviour.
Well, since you know nothing about the cause, there is no remedy you're in a position to recommend. You have no idea whether or not "racism" is involved in the explanation, or retraining, or any other such thing.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:59 pm
Well, since you know nothing about the cause, there is no remedy you're in a position to recommend.
I am not recommending a remedy - I am recommending remediation.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:59 pm
You have no idea whether or not "racism" is involved in the explanation, or retraining, or any other such thing.
Do I have to know? Your objection is only material in theory, but it's irrelevant in practice.
In practice, it is possible (and pretty common) to cure a patient without knowing how the cure works.
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:11 pm
I am not recommending a remedy - I am recommending remediation.
Either way, if you have no explanation of cause, you're no help to anyone. You don't know what "remediation" would even be, in the smallest way. So what action can you "recommend"? Nothing.
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:11 pm
I am not recommending a remedy - I am recommending remediation.
Either way, if you have no explanation of cause, you're no help to anyone. You don't know what "remediation" would even be, in the smallest way. So what action can you "recommend"? Nothing.
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:24 pm
We’ll also need to change the behavior of the good cops...
Why? They're "good." Do you want them to become "less good"?
They are not good enough if, for example, they are OK with the unjustified use of lethal force.
Who says they are?
If they are, then they are not "good," by definition. And if that's so, then we ought to refer to the rest them as "the rest of the all-bad cops," instead of "the good ones," shouldn't we?
They have "rewards and punishments" already. If they use "unjustified force," they are fired and prosecuted. So that doesn't seem much of a reform. And it would seem that the "good cops" are already entirely opposed to the "bad" cops doing what they do.
