Evolving philosophy

[Belinda]

Life in Britain is relatively free of oppression. No country is absolutely permissive.

Your personal experience doesn't count.

No matter where you live, or how oppressive a government is, if you personally have no desire or ambition to do anything the government forbids, or are able to evade it, you will not consider that government oppressive. I have personally known two individuals living in communist China who were not all personally oppressed. One is an American doctor who went originally to China as a, "doctor without borders," married a Chinese girl, and lives there now very happily. The other was frankly a smuggler who knew how to play the politics (paying the squeeze) and generally operate under the radar. They both lived just as they chose, but it was in spite of the oppression. There is no way to honestly describe the Chinese communist government as anything but oppressive.

Oppression is more than secret police. Oppression includes also the method of thought control which depends upon expensive private schools where rich people send their sons to be groomed for positions of power.

London
BY WILLIAM BLAKE
I wander thro' each charter'd street,
Near where the charter'd Thames does flow.
And mark in every face I meet
Marks of weakness, marks of woe.

In every cry of every Man,
In every Infants cry of fear,
In every voice: in every ban,
The mind-forg'd manacles I hear

How the Chimney-sweepers cry
Every blackning Church appalls,
And the hapless Soldiers sigh
Runs in blood down Palace walls

But most thro' midnight streets I hear
How the youthful Harlots curse
Blasts the new-born Infants tear
And blights with plagues the Marriage hearse .

Note well the phrase "man made manacles"

[Lacewing]

Life in Britain is relatively free of oppression. No country is absolutely permissive.

Your personal experience doesn't count.

No matter where you live, or how oppressive a government is, if you personally have no desire or ambition to do anything the government forbids, or are able to evade it, you will not consider that government oppressive. I have personally known two individuals living in communist China who were not all personally oppressed. One is an American doctor who went originally to China as a, "doctor without borders," married a Chinese girl, and lives there now very happily. The other was frankly a smuggler who knew how to play the politics (paying the squeeze) and generally operate under the radar. They both lived just as they chose, but it was in spite of the oppression. There is no way to honestly describe the Chinese communist government as anything but oppressive.

As your examples demonstrate, oppression for one person doesn't necessarily feel like oppression for another. Perspective determines reality for each person, yes? There are many kinds of oppression everywhere, all the time -- against women, races, sexual orientation, theists/non-theists, etc. If you don't LIVE it, you might not see it, nor care.

You may stand in the midst of all of that, and choose the enemies you feel it worthy to rage against, and encourage others to focus like you do. But truly, who decides... for everyone... what the perspective should be? You simply cannot know all of those lives. Standing in judgment... making blanket claims about groups of people... and spreading toxicity about things you don't live or understand... is simply in service to yourself and your identity.

[Belinda]

Life in Britain is relatively free of oppression. No country is absolutely permissive.

Your personal experience doesn't count.

No matter where you live, or how oppressive a government is, if you personally have no desire or ambition to do anything the government forbids, or are able to evade it, you will not consider that government oppressive. I have personally known two individuals living in communist China who were not all personally oppressed. One is an American doctor who went originally to China as a, "doctor without borders," married a Chinese girl, and lives there now very happily. The other was frankly a smuggler who knew how to play the politics (paying the squeeze) and generally operate under the radar. They both lived just as they chose, but it was in spite of the oppression. There is no way to honestly describe the Chinese communist government as anything but oppressive.

As your examples demonstrate, oppression for one person doesn't necessarily feel like oppression for another. Perspective determines reality for each person, yes? There are many kinds of oppression everywhere, all the time -- against women, races, sexual orientation, theists/non-theists, etc. If you don't LIVE it, you might not see it, nor care.

You may stand in the midst of all of that, and choose the enemies you feel it worthy to rage against, and encourage others to focus like you do. But truly, who decides... for everyone... what the perspective should be? You simply cannot know all of those lives. Standing in judgment... making blanket claims about groups of people... and spreading toxicity about things you don't live or understand... is simply in service to yourself and your identity.

The way to know others' lives is via empathy. Empathy is learned through education in the humanities i.e. philosophy, history, drama, novels and other expressive literature, anthropology, theology, art appreciation, and history of ideas.

[RCSaunders]

Oppression is more than secret police. Oppression includes also the method of thought control which depends upon expensive private schools where rich people send their sons to be groomed for positions of power.

What is a, "position of power?" Is this some kind of conspiracy theory? And what does, "grooming," mean? I know you have a problem in the UK with Muslim men grooming underage girls as sex slaves. Seems to me you pick an odd kind of grooming to worry about, without batting an eye at the 19,000 plus girls who are endangered. Oh, I forgot, you're not supposed talk about that because you will probably be accused of hate speech. So much for free speech, eh!?

[RCSaunders]

Your personal experience doesn't count.

No matter where you live, or how oppressive a government is, if you personally have no desire or ambition to do anything the government forbids, or are able to evade it, you will not consider that government oppressive. I have personally known two individuals living in communist China who were not all personally oppressed. One is an American doctor who went originally to China as a, "doctor without borders," married a Chinese girl, and lives there now very happily. The other was frankly a smuggler who knew how to play the politics (paying the squeeze) and generally operate under the radar. They both lived just as they chose, but it was in spite of the oppression. There is no way to honestly describe the Chinese communist government as anything but oppressive.

As your examples demonstrate, oppression for one person doesn't necessarily feel like oppression for another. Perspective determines reality for each person, yes? There are many kinds of oppression everywhere, all the time -- against women, races, sexual orientation, theists/non-theists, etc. If you don't LIVE it, you might not see it, nor care.

You may stand in the midst of all of that, and choose the enemies you feel it worthy to rage against, and encourage others to focus like you do. But truly, who decides... for everyone... what the perspective should be?

Exactly! Everyone is different and there is no, "one way," everyone must think, believe, choose, and live, which is what is wrong with every political ideology which would foist its views on everyone. I only want every individual to be able to live their own life without anyone else forcing them to do or not do anything.

The way to know others' lives is via empathy. Empathy is learned through education in the humanities i.e. philosophy, history, drama, novels and other expressive literature, anthropology, theology, art appreciation, and history of ideas.

The only way to know others is to live with and among them, to work with them in as many possible circumstances as possible. If you depend on learning about human beings from academics, all you'll learn is their shallow opinion. History and literature, which you'll learn precious little of in an academic setting are also good sources. Anthropology is a pseudo-science, like psychology. Most of what one learns must be learned outside of any formal learning center and if you are not an autodidact, you probably only know what the academics, who have never actually lived or done anything of value, have dreamed up in their minds. Shaw was right, "those who can, do, those who can't, teach."

[henry quirk]

Everyone is different and there is no, "one way," everyone must think, believe, choose, and live, which is what is wrong with every political ideology which would foist its views on everyone. I only want every individual to be able to live their own life without anyone else forcing them to do or not do anything.

me too: that's why I advocate for a chartered, natural rights minarchy

[Age]

Most of us can probably look at our own lives, as well as considering the path of humankind from its early beginnings until now (as far as we are aware of), and see how philosophy has changed for ourselves and others (including entire civilizations) over the course of time and understanding. And we can see that one’s philosophy is based on many variables at any point and place.

Yet, how many people think that what they think/see/believe/imagine/understand RIGHT NOW is the most accurate philosophical viewpoint? Perhaps they claim to “know” of some kind of permanent, unchanging “truth” that applies to all. And perhaps they claim that some sort of particular book or ancient teachings verify their claims.

But, truly, how would this even make sense when we consider all the changes and variables across time and space?

IF you REALLY want to discover or learn the answer to this question, then you 'have to' be OPEN to it.

But, as evidenced below, what can be CLEARLY SEEN is you are NOT open to this. The reason that 'you', "your" 'self', are so CLOSED is, as I continually point out, because of your ALREADY firmly HELD ONTO and fixed BELIEFS.

The very thing that you are saying does not make sense is the very thing that 'you', "your" 'self', are doing here.

But just like EVERY other person can NOT see NOR understand just HOW their own beliefs STOP and PREVENT them from SEEING what the actual Truth IS so to 'you' do the EXACT SAME thing, as I have been continually saying and pointing out to you.

How could we not see how much such claims are based in ego and/or fear? Why would the Universe and all of its energetic levels/potential be so static and limited and material/physical according to human standards?

This human NEED to think we could (and do) “know” such things: what difference does it really make? Can’t we live effective and enjoyable lives without claiming to possess some particular ultimate unchanging knowledge?

If we truly question such things, then how would we be able to justify any kind of unchanging and knowable truth at any point in time, from our limited perspectives and awareness? How does such pretense serve us?

Can’t we float in an ocean without claiming that any of the countless moving waves is “the ultimate one” and that we somehow “know” it? Does anything else in nature depend on such fantasy or demands for its existence?

Claiming that, "we float in an ocean with countless moving waves", is just ANOTHER ONE of the MANY CLAIMS that this 'one' is "the ultimate truth".

And, your persistence in expressing this, to you, "ultimate truth" reveals just how this is your, OWN, 'religion'. And, your insistence that "others" acknowledge this "ultimate truth of yours" shows just how much BELIEF you have in this religion. To you, this is obviously YOUR "TRUTH", which you dearly would love EVERY one "else" to accept and agree with.

'you' are therefore just behaving EXACTLY the same as those who you are being so dismissive of here.

You may NOT YET be able to recognize and understand this. But, hopefully one day you soon will.

[Age]

There are those who believe there is a higher purpose to our existence in the grand scheme of things
Since those who do not share this view can not falsify it we should respect all freedom of conscience
I do not think there is any meaning to our existence but I can not be certain and nor can anyone else

WHY are you 'certain' that NO one can be certain if there is meaning to 'our' (whoever and whatever that actually refers to) existence.

If you are at all interested, then I can SHOW to you a way that you and "others" can be 'certain'.

[Nick_A]

If a man writes a book called "I'm OK, You're OK in support of relativism, he will sell many books and invited to appear on Oprah.

If another man writes book called "I'm an Idiot, You're an Idiot" in support of Absolutism, it will be panned by the experts. He won't be invited to appear on Oprah.

Another victory for progressive education.

[Lacewing]

The reason that 'you', "your" 'self', are so CLOSED is, as I continually point out, because of your ALREADY firmly HELD ONTO and fixed BELIEFS.

And as I continually point out to you, you don't know what you're talking about in regard to me. So please fuck off with your dumbass analysis and delusional conclusions.

[Age]

There are those who believe there is a higher purpose to our existence in the grand scheme of things
Since those who do not share this view can not falsify it we should respect all freedom of conscience
I do not think there is any meaning to our existence but I can not be certain and nor can anyone else

But we can ask questions, yes?

If there IS a higher purpose, why would we think we could (or do) know it NOW any more accurately than we or any others have thought at any other time?

Maybe because the 'higher purpose' reveals Its Self, or maybe because a new or newer way has been found/uncovered, or maybe because evolution keeps evolving and 'we' have evolved passed the human beings stage, or level. Or, maybe because of so many other reasons, which 'you', "your" 'self' have NOT YET even considered could be true, because you BELIEVE, wholeheartedly, that there is NOTHING that is more accurate than what 'you' or "others" think now, when this is being written.

And what difference does it truly make? Many who claim to know such a thing do not demonstrate any admirable kind of mastery or awareness or effectiveness or character -- so how are they any better off for it?

Or, maybe you are just NOT YET OPEN to have recognized and SEEN thee 'awareness' and 'mastery', which is actually within EVERY 'one', EQUALLY.

Remember, just because you have NOT YET SEEN some thing, then this does NOT mean that it is does not exist.

What is really going on?

If you REALLY WANT the specific answer, then you will REALLY have to make your question here more specific.

[Age]

The reason that 'you', "your" 'self', are so CLOSED is, as I continually point out, because of your ALREADY firmly HELD ONTO and fixed BELIEFS.

And as I continually point out to you, you don't know what you're talking about in regard to me. So please fuck off with your dumbass analysis and delusional conclusions.

Your BELIEFS, and HOW they PREVENT and STOP 'you' from SEEING thee Truth, is as CLEAR as CRYSTAL, well to 'Me' anyway.

[Age]

A higher purpose if it actually exists would historically have been revealed through the many different Scriptures throughout the ages

And, this is EXACTLY HOW 'It' is being REVEALED.

The reason 'you', adult human beings, have NOT YET recognized and SEEN this is because 'you' only LOOK AT some scriptures as being true and other ones as not being true.

To be OPEN means being able to LOOK AT EVERY thing.

That is the traditional way one would achieve enlightenment and understand their reason for existence in the grand scheme of things

There are many Buddhists and Christians and Hindus and Muslims who are better human beings because of their respective belief systems
Those believers who truly follow their faith most definitely have mastery and awareness but it is always a work in progress even for them

But they are also ONLY, so called, "masters" of one thing.

There is NOT in actuality a "buddhist", a "christian", a "hindu", et cetera. There is, however, human beings who follow particular models and/or who class themselves as being "masters" of particular models. But this is such a limited and thus CLOSED way of LOOKING at things. Thee actual Truth of things will NEVER be revealed in this way of behaving and LOOKING.

We are all moral beings regardless of whether or not we have a belief system as that is the common denominator here
Even those who do not have one can still learn from those who do and become better human beings as a consequence

Actually those who do NOT use the belief-system have are far more able to learn.

[Age]

Most of us can probably look at our own lives, as well as considering the path of humankind from its early beginnings until now (as far as we are aware of), and see how philosophy has changed for ourselves and others (including entire civilizations) over the course of time and understanding. And we can see that one’s philosophy is based on many variables at any point and place.

Yet, how many people think that what they think/see/believe/imagine/understand RIGHT NOW is the most accurate philosophical viewpoint? Perhaps they claim to “know” of some kind of permanent, unchanging “truth” that applies to all. And perhaps they claim that some sort of particular book or ancient teachings verify their claims.

What is known [philosophically and epistemologically] about humans as "permanent" is a fact they must breathe else they die and other knowledge of constants within human nature.
Instead of jumping to what is the 'higher' purpose, we should find out what is the 'lowest' purpose and built it one one step at a time.

Is this not what 'you', adult human beings, have been 'trying to' do, for the past few thousand years or more, without any real success I will add?

[Lacewing]

Maybe .../... or maybe .../... Or, maybe .../... Or, maybe ...

Maybe you don't know what you're talking about. Not interested in your distorted beliefs and conclusions, Age.