Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

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Nick_A
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Nick_A »

JoeB wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 9:20 am
Nick_A wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 5:07 am Their intellect knows why they must lose weight. Their senses know how good they taste and their angry emotions decide they deserve to eat the whole box so they do. What does this person understand?
Good, an example...
This person probably understands very well what they're doing, although their behaviour might seem a bit incomprehensible from the outside.
There is in normal discourse a difference between understanding and believing such-and-such. The criterion of a behavioural assessment of someone's understanding elides this difference. It posits I think an ideal of understanding along the lines, to understand perfectly compels belief and action in accordance with the understanding. But I think this ideal, though interesting, is only abstract. If we can have a degree of understanding then maybe that's all we ever have.
I understand the risks of smoking, but smoke nonetheless - so do I not understand them well enough, or not care, or don't believe it'll happen to me, or am I just addicted?
You have just described the fallen human condition. Plato spoke of Man having a tripartite soul or three parts forming one organism. The balanced Man would be governed by reason (the head) using emotional force (the heart) to guide the body to serve its needs. But as we've seen it doesn't work that way. The fallen human condition has Man being governed by his appetites or the body. The emotions serve them and reason rationalizes them.

Understanding can be defined as state in which a person thinks, feels, and senses the reality of the external world as a whole. We do not understand since the human organism doesn't function as a conscious whole. He is governed by either reason, emotion, and appetites depending upon which way the wind is blowing. Plato wrote of our problem in the chariot analogy and our corrupt dark horse. It does seem a person needing to be normal could work on his inner life but it is far more difficult than we are aware of so we become hypocrites in which we say one thing and do another while being unable to "understand"
surreptitious57
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
I am open minded although I prefer to describe myself as detached since I avoid
as much as possible holding onto opinions any more than is absolutely necessary
Is there any necessity at all to hold onto any opinion
There is no necessity at all to hold onto any opinion because they can change over time
Opinions that do not change over time can be held with the minimum of effort required
Age
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 3:39 pm
Age wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
I am open minded although I prefer to describe myself as detached since I avoid
as much as possible holding onto opinions any more than is absolutely necessary
Is there any necessity at all to hold onto any opinion
There is no necessity at all to hold onto any opinion because they can change over time
'There is no necessity at all to hold onto any opinion' does not necessarily logically follow on from 'because opinions can change over time'.

The actual reason 'there is no necessity at all to hold onto any opinion' is because 'there is no actual necessity at all to hold onto any opinion'.

Absolutely every thing in the Universe can change, anyway.
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 3:39 pm Opinions that do not change over time can be held with the minimum of effort required
Opinions only change if one is not holding onto them. It is not the case that opinions do or do not change, by themselves. Opinions only can and do change if one allows them to. Obviously if one is holding onto an opinion, then they are not allowing that opinion to change.

If any 'effort' is required to hold onto any opinion, then it must be the case that that opinion is not thee actual full Truth of things.
surreptitious57
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Obviously if one is holding onto an opinion then they are not allowing that opinion to change

If any effort is required to hold onto any opinion then it must be the case that that opinion is not thee actual full Truth of things
An opinion is held until it is replaced by another one but none are held any more than is necessary because there is no reason to
No opinion is the actual full truth of anything because by virtue of it being an opinion it is no more than subjective interpretation
Age
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:13 am
Age wrote:
Obviously if one is holding onto an opinion then they are not allowing that opinion to change

If any effort is required to hold onto any opinion then it must be the case that that opinion is not thee actual full Truth of things
An opinion is held until it is replaced by another one but none are held any more than is necessary because there is no reason to
Okay.
surreptitious57 wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:13 am No opinion is the actual full truth of anything because by virtue of it being an opinion it is no more than subjective interpretation
If no opinion is the actual full truth of anything, then what is the actual full truth of things?
surreptitious57
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
If no opinion is the actual full truth of anything then what is the actual full truth of things
The actual full truth of things is simply that what is so it is not affected by the opinions of human beings
Existence as a state is beyond subjective interpretation because it is absolute and objective and infinite
JoeB
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by JoeB »

Nick_A wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 2:36 am Understanding can be defined as state in which a person thinks, feels, and senses the reality of the external world as a whole.
Ok.... This is interesting, but not close to any everyday English usage of the word, I think.
What is it that one 'understands' here? It sounds like an 'enlightened state' of a sort is in play. Perhaps there is an implied understanding of the self or human condition? But I guess the important thing is the harmony of the faculties?
I'm not sure that there isn't something necessarily true in the definition - these 3 faculties are always operating in unison... Perfect harmony not following from that of course. And I'm not sure that most people most of the time aren't in a state of "understanding"... Normal life for most is usually pretty internally harmonious no?
Age
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 12:34 pm
Age wrote:
If no opinion is the actual full truth of anything then what is the actual full truth of things
The actual full truth of things is simply that what is so it is not affected by the opinions of human beings
So, why not just express 'that' 'what is so', or 'that' what I call 'what IS', instead of opinions?

Why even look at and discuss opinions, when, as I continually ask, why not just LOOK AT 'what IS' and discuss 'that', then only thee actual Truth of things will be talked about, and also SEEN?

The actual Truth of things is really that simple.
surreptitious57 wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 12:34 pmExistence as a state is beyond subjective interpretation because it is absolute and objective and infinite
And, what IS thee absolute and objective Truth of things can be SEEN, and KNOWN, very simply and very easily indeed. Thee actual Truth of things can also be very simply and very easily explained AND understood, as I have been continually pointing out here, in this forum. Although this is contrary to popular belief, and popular opinion, this is actually thee actual Truth of things. Existence as a state is obviously expressed/explained and understood/seen through subjective interpretations. But, thee One interpretation that EVERY one has, agrees upon, and accepts is thee actual FULL Truth of things. Therefore, the absolute and objective state of Existence is NOT beyond subjective interpretation at all. In fact thee True state of things is understood and known through a subjective interpretation.

ALL philosophical, so called, "problems" that I am aware of have already been solved and the True and Right answers to those questions has already been answered, and thus already KNOWN. Just learning how to express and explain this fact, to those who hold contrary views, opinions, assumptions, and/or beliefs, is just a process, which takes some time.
Age
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Age »

JoeB wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 5:03 pm
Nick_A wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 2:36 am Understanding can be defined as state in which a person thinks, feels, and senses the reality of the external world as a whole.
Ok.... This is interesting, but not close to any everyday English usage of the word, I think.
What is it that one 'understands' here? It sounds like an 'enlightened state' of a sort is in play. Perhaps there is an implied understanding of the self or human condition? But I guess the important thing is the harmony of the faculties?
I'm not sure that there isn't something necessarily true in the definition - these 3 faculties are always operating in unison...
I would say otherwise. The three faculties of most human beings in the days of when these words are being written are not actually always operating in unison at all.

The three faculties of most adult human beings may appear to be "always operating in unison" but on deeper reflection and Honesty what will be found is they are not in unison at all actually. If this is not being agreed with, then, if and when any examples are brought forward of adult human behavior that appears to be in unison with the three faculties, then we can look further into those examples and discuss them to see just how much actual 'unison' there really is.
JoeB wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 5:03 pm Perfect harmony not following from that of course. And I'm not sure that most people most of the time aren't in a state of "understanding"... Normal life for most is usually pretty internally harmonious no?
What appears to be "usually pretty internally harmonious" on further inspection may actually show otherwise. We will have to be, as I continually say, Truly OPEN and Honest to find out and see, or understand. Once one Truly KNOWS Thy 'self', then they will have True 'understanding'. And, with True understanding comes the ability to create and live in a Truly peaceful and harmonious world with EVERY one. The three faculties only then always operating in unison, and then perfect harmony obviously following from this of course.

Obviously those who have not yet attained True understanding are the ones who do not yet KNOW Thy 'Self'. These ones are easily noticed as they are not yet able to answer the question; 'Who am 'I'?'
surreptitious57
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
why not just express that what is so or that what I call what IS instead of opinions
Human beings express opinions and will carry on doing so for as long as they can
They cannot instinctively limit themselves to just stating facts and nothing else
surreptitious57
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
ALL philosophical so called problems that I am aware of have already been solved
Which philosophical problems have already been solved ?
Can you actually list them and their respective solution ?
surreptitious57
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
they are not yet able to answer the question Who am I ?
I am someone simply passing through this world
For my own existence is very temporary indeed
Age
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 5:56 pm
Age wrote:
why not just express that what is so or that what I call what IS instead of opinions
Human beings express opinions and will carry on doing so for as long as they can
I KNOW human beings do this. But, for how long they carry on doing this we will have to wait and see.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 5:56 pm They cannot instinctively limit themselves to just stating facts and nothing else
They can, that is; if they want to. But, most older human beings prefer to express their own opinions on things, and present them in a way as though they are actually what is true, right, and/or correct.
Age
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 5:59 pm
Age wrote:
ALL philosophical so called problems that I am aware of have already been solved
Which philosophical problems have already been solved ?
I did capitalize the answer. I thought this would help in not missing it.

I did write, 'ALL philosophical problems that I am aware of'. This means that I am prepared to be challenged with ANY so called "philosophical problems".
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 5:59 pm Can you actually list them and their respective solution ?
Yes I could. If anyone would like to make a list of any so called "philosophical problems" they may have, and they also have and want to spend the time and effort needed to understand their respective solution/s, then I can and will actually oblige.

This will actually test and assess how open one truly is. In fact is there anyone here open enough to even accept that ALL philosophical so called "problems" have already been solved? Or, is there no one here that 'open-minded'?
Age
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Re: Assessing One’s Own Open-Mindedness

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 6:06 pm
Age wrote:
they are not yet able to answer the question Who am I ?
I am someone simply passing through this world
But who, or what, is that 'I', which is supposedly simply passing through this so called "world"?

Is it actually possible that it could be somewhat any different to what you propose here? Could you be completely and utterly wrong or partly wrong? Or is your opinion here strongly fixed and unchangeable?

We could also go back to; Why express an opinion that could be completely or partly wrong, when we could just look at what is actually True and Right, and just express that instead?
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 6:06 pm For my own existence is very temporary indeed
But, for all 'you' know thee 'I' may not actually be temporary at all. Without ever learning and knowing Thy Self, or Who 'I' am, 'you' would obviously also never know if 'I' am actually temporary or eternal.

If you do not yet know thy Self, then you can not legitimately say that my own existence is very temporary indeed. This is because If you do not yet know thy Self, then you obviously do not yet know if this is true or not at all.

By the way, what thee actual Truth IS here can be explained very simply and be understood very easily, that is; by and to those who are Truly OPEN, or Truly "open-minded", as some might say.
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