Theism Driven by Desperate Psychology

[Veritas Aequitas]

Note the following seeming true image of two normal faces seen from an upside down perspective;





However if one were to look [by turning your head] at the two images in an upright portrait form,
one will be aghast , one of the image [on the right] is factually that of a very ugly hideous face.

The question is why are we seeing two normal faces in front when it is upside down, when in reality the real image on the right is that of a very ugly hideous face when seen upright.

The truth of the matter is,
we [empirical self] have been duped by our neural self, i.e. by an algorithm that is deceiving us.
Point is no matter how many times we turn the image upright to see the hideous face, we will always see a 'normal' face when the image are turned upside down.
Thus we are living with a deceiving mind at all times.

Why this is so?
It is due to desperate psychology within the brain to deceive so as to facilitate survival.
Note it happens only to faces but not say an apple.

This is the same desperate psychology of facilitate survival when theists are deceived to reify an logical illusion as something objectively real, i.e. GOD.

Note from Kant;

They [ideas - thing-in-itself - God] are sophistications not of men but of Pure Reason itself.
Even the wisest of men cannot free himself from them.
After long effort he perhaps succeeds in guarding himself against actual error; but he will never be able to free himself from the Illusion, which unceasingly mocks and torments him.
B397

Thus just as it is so evident we cannot free ourselves from the illusion of seeing the "normal" face [when in reality it is ugly],
theists cannot free themselves from reifying the illusory God as objectively real.
It is due to desperate psychology to facilitate survival.

In contrast to the face deception by our mind, fortunately non-theists [rationally or by other means] can free themselves from reifying an illusory God as objectively real, i.e. so "real" that such a God delivers a holy text, listen and answer their prayers and assured them of a place is heaven if they are believers.

As such, theists should understand the principles of the above deception - i.e. it is the psychology within oneself, even it they cannot extricate themselves out of that self-deception.

Views?

[Veritas Aequitas]

Here is the image turned to its upright position.
Note how your mind has deceived you of the truth of reality.




when the same image is turned upside down this is what you will always see;



Would you admit you are being deceived by your neural self powered by the brain?

In principle, this is exactly the same deception, theists are deceived by their brain to "perceive" God as real from a pseudo-logical representation.

Views?

[Dontaskme]

Would you admit you are being deceived by your neural self powered by the brain?

In principle, this is exactly the same deception, theists are deceived by their brain to "perceive" God as real from a pseudo-logical representation.

Views?

But this experiment has nothing to do with what God IS ......SO HERE WE GO AGAIN.

All images, no matter how they appear to the senses detecting them, are only appearing to the imageless SEER, the images SEEN are inseparable from the SEER..they are empty of any entity known as a person. That's a difficult concept to grasp isn't it? When you look at a photograph or a painting of lets say a human body for example. You'll see that's it's just an EMPTY image of a body...and not an actual real body that you call your own body as if there is someone here that can say this is me, or this is mine, or this is what I look like....the body that we think is a person has no way of MAKING a selfie of itself...the body just is, it has no self.

When second body takes a photo of your body, and then you look at that photo, what you are seeing is only a reflection of your body, and that is when the thought arises ''...this is who I am...'' but what is looked upon is again just an image reflection of the SEER because bodies cannot take selfies of themselves....So all that is being seen is a reflection, aka an empty image of a self-less body. The body is real enough, it exists, but there is no one that owns the body to say this is my body.

This works for the FACE as well, you have never seen your face...the only way you know you have a face is because it is reflected back to you in the form of an image from another source, namely the external seen to your internal seeing.

There is no person that has a brain, just as there is no brain deceiving a person. Brains can't decieve someone. I mean how would a brain know it was deceiving someone?
The brain it's just a lump of matter, it has no self in it....so thinking it could deceive someone would be like saying a mountain can deceive someone into thinking it is GOD

This is the only deception here, believing there is a you, and that this you has a brain that can deceive you.

Perception is an appearance thought to be sourced in the brain, but it is the otherway around...the brain is an appearance of the perception in which it is appearing....where is perception?

Where does perception arise and to whom? .... is where the blank is filled by a concept/idea. Concepts are only known, but NEVER SEEN.

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[Dontaskme]

However if one were to look [by turning your head] at the two images in an upright portrait form,
one will be aghast , one of the image [on the right] is factually that of a very ugly hideous face.

The question is why are we seeing two normal faces in front when it is upside down, when in reality the real image on the right is that of a very ugly hideous face when seen upright.

It's immaterial what appears to the screen of consciousness, for all images are illusions appearing real. In other words hallucinations.
Why do I see two fingers when I am only holding one finger upright close to the bridge of my nose but looking straight past the finger and not directly at it? How do I see two fingers without even looking at the one finger? ...can we ever know what is going on here?

REality is one big hallucination, where images are formed and imprinted upon each other, like dreams within dreams within dreams.

The image of a girl holding the sun in her hand is an illusion of seeing .



In reality, no seer has ever been seen, the seen are only images known, in other words illusions of seeing, hallucinations depending on what angle the object is seen from. Far away or close up, every object known is only made from out of the empty space in which it is appearing.


Reality as it is known is a trickless trick appearing in nothingness.

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[Veritas Aequitas]

"But this experiment has nothing to do with what God IS"

The above experiment on the image demonstrate how the brain/mind deceive the self in presenting a false image [concrete - empirical] to the self which is perceived to be very real.
If the person duped is not informed and ignorant of the experiment he [say X] will insist the 'normal' face on the right image is a real normal face.
It is likely he [X] will bet his life that what he is seeing is a normal face while being ignorant his mind is deceiving him with an empirical illusion.

The same principle is applied to "the belief God is real", where the brain/mind deceive the self in in believing God exists as real, when in reality, the source is only a false logical idea [abstract - transcendental].

Like the ignorant person X above, theists will insist or even bet with their life, God is really 'real' to them, not knowing they are being deceived by their brain to believe God exists as real when there is no such thing as a real objective God at all.
There is no GOD-IS at all, whatever claim of GOD-IS is an illusion.
Thus theists insist on a transcendental illusion being objectively real, thus they are delusional.

In the above experiment, the brain/mind deceived in the empirical sense - an empirical illusion,
while in the case of the belief 'God is real' it is in the transcendental-logical sense - transcendental logical illusion.

Both cases are similar, i.e. the brain/mind is lying to the conscious-self.

[AlexW]

Why this is so?
It is due to desperate psychology within the brain to deceive so as to facilitate survival.

I think it is due to the fact that the eyes and mouth in the right picture are actually the right way round - also, the mouth is smiling and the eyes are looking friendly and as these are the two most prominent and expressive features of any face these are also the parts one primarily focuses on.
There is no "desperate psychology within the brain" - its simply how people make sense of facial expressions.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Why this is so?
It is due to desperate psychology within the brain to deceive so as to facilitate survival.

I think it is due to the fact that the eyes and mouth in the right picture are actually the right way round - also, the mouth is smiling and the eyes are looking friendly and as these are the two most prominent and expressive features of any face these are also the parts one primarily focuses on.
There is no "desperate psychology within the brain" - its simply how people make sense of facial expressions.

I agree it is not "desperate psychology" in the case of this deception involving 'facial recognition'. This deception is an instinct 'programmed' within the DNA of all human beings to facilitate survival of the individual and therefrom the human species.

However "desperate psychology" is more relevant when that SAME deception mechanism is directed at thoughts [not faces] and produce the belief "God exists as real" from merely a set of thoughts [ideas].

The deception mechanism has always been there as instinctual, but the thought of a God is relatively a recent one in human evolution.
It is this inherent deception mechanism that generate a transcendental illusion to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis in relatively recent phase of human evolution.
Prior to the GOD phase, the deception mechanism was driving believers to animism, not the newer theology and theism.

Thus my point;
Theism is driven by desperate psychology in activation with the inherent deception mechanism within the brain to deal with an inherent existential crisis.

The desperation is so powerful that theists will initiate all sort of defenses and various evil defensive acts to defend their belief based on faith.
Theists are so desperate [psychologically] that some theists will kill anyone [or initiate evil defensive acts] who threaten their belief in God - this is so evident within theistic Islam and 'some' Muslims.

[Dontaskme]

There is no GOD-IS at all, whatever claim of GOD-IS is an illusion.
Thus theists insist on a transcendental illusion being objectively real, thus they are delusional.

But the point really is about THE WHO OR WHAT is being delusion, who is experiencing a transcendental illusion? who is the claimer, who is the theist, who is the atheist? who is being DESPERATE? .. this is all about having KNOWLEDGE of such said concepts.

Who makes the claim ''There is no GOD-IS at all'' ....or... '' GOD-IS all there is'' ?

Who is making that claim? and can that be known without making it more knowledge known. So looking at it from that perspective, it can be seen that there can only be what is KNOWN conceptually....and that all that is KNOWN can include any concept that can possibly be known.

And can you also see that KNOWLEDGE can only point to the illusory nature of reality? because where is knowledge sourced? who is the author of knowledge can that be known without making that knowledge known? can the source of knowledge be known without making that source known.

So can you see there are only ever CONCEPTS here? and that NOTHING is KNOWN except in this CONCEPTION.

Which points to the realisation that conceptual knowledge is just a made up story. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God is just another word for SOURCE...but then the word source on it's own would be meaningless without anything to relate it to ...so what do we relate it to without making that also knowledge known.

It's concepts all the way down from source to source an endless spring.

The point is there is no one to believe in God (concept) and there is no one to disbelieve in God (the concept)

And yet...the concept is KNOWN


There is no way out of this mental maze.

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[Dontaskme]

Why this is so?
It is due to desperate psychology within the brain to deceive so as to facilitate survival.

I think it is due to the fact that the eyes and mouth in the right picture are actually the right way round - also, the mouth is smiling and the eyes are looking friendly and as these are the two most prominent and expressive features of any face these are also the parts one primarily focuses on.
There is no "desperate psychology within the brain" - its simply how people make sense of facial expressions.

Excellent point...well said, as there can only be a recognition of what's been programmed to be familar with which is detected by the sense of awareness..the ugly face is not recognised immediately because it's not appearing within the direct focus of attention, there is no awareness of the ugly face until the picture is flipped over - and so only then is the ugly pattern recognised for what it is known for....and this shows us that nothing is recognised until it is familar with awareness recognition.

Same applies to those 3D magic eye 2D pictures where there is hidden within the 2D image another image not yet seen but there all the same.
Same applies to the what the senses don't recognise and know via awareness they can not show up on the screen of awareness even though they are there.

Probably have said that in a crap way, but never mind.

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[AlexW]

However "desperate psychology" is more relevant when that SAME deception mechanism is directed at thoughts [not faces] and produce the belief "God exists as real" from merely a set of thoughts [ideas].

The deception mechanism has always been there as instinctual, but the thought of a God is relatively a recent one in human evolution.
It is this inherent deception mechanism that generate a transcendental illusion to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis in relatively recent phase of human evolution.
Prior to the GOD phase, the deception mechanism was driving believers to animism, not the newer theology and theism.

Thus my point;
Theism is driven by desperate psychology in activation with the inherent deception mechanism within the brain to deal with an inherent existential crisis.

Yes... interesting...

I guess this could be extrapolated to encompass many different areas (not only theism) where a convenient deception might "help" to avoid or veil an "existential crisis"

Further more: A beliefe in ones own solid, separate self (even it is a self burdened with a life that can only end in death) existing as an individual island in a physical world, could just as well be such a deception... a deception to avoid loosing (or at least deflating) the most "precious thing": ones self

[Veritas Aequitas]

But the point really is about THE WHO OR WHAT is being delusion, who is experiencing a transcendental illusion? who is the claimer, who is the theist, who is the atheist? who is being DESPERATE? .. this is all about having KNOWLEDGE of such said concepts.
..

Stupid.

The WHO is who is the desperate delusional one who will rape and murder you [even if you are an old hag] upon the sanction of his GOD-IS.

I challenge you to get to a city square with full of people anywhere in Afghanistan, then burn the Quran and you will know who is who and what is what.

[Veritas Aequitas]

However "desperate psychology" is more relevant when that SAME deception mechanism is directed at thoughts [not faces] and produce the belief "God exists as real" from merely a set of thoughts [ideas].

The deception mechanism has always been there as instinctual, but the thought of a God is relatively a recent one in human evolution.
It is this inherent deception mechanism that generate a transcendental illusion to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis in relatively recent phase of human evolution.
Prior to the GOD phase, the deception mechanism was driving believers to animism, not the newer theology and theism.

Thus my point;
Theism is driven by desperate psychology in activation with the inherent deception mechanism within the brain to deal with an inherent existential crisis.

Yes... interesting...

I guess this could be extrapolated to encompass many different areas (not only theism) where a convenient deception might "help" to avoid or veil an "existential crisis"

Yes, many areas, i.e. more than one can think of because the existential crisis is at the foundation of human existence.

Further more: A belief in ones own solid, separate self (even it is a self burdened with a life that can only end in death) existing as an individual island in a physical world, could just as well be such a deception... a deception to avoid loosing (or at least deflating) the most "precious thing": ones self

There are many perspectives to what is self.
In the convention [common, empirical, scientific, etc.] perspective we have to take it that the separated independent empirical self and physical self has to be very real to maintain one personal integrity and personal wholeness which is essential for survival.

At another perspective, there is the I-THINK self which deals with thoughts and mental activities.

However to extend beyond the above to a self that will survive physical death and can go to heaven is engaging in an illusion which is driven by desperate psychology as demonstrated analogically in the OP.

Thus in ordinary life one has to accept and recognize the physical self, the empirical self, the I-THINK self has to be real relatively [not absolutely] and thus should be protected.

However whenever one is driven by desperate psychology to reify a self or soul that can survive physical death, then one must recognized one has been duped into an illusion out of desperate psychology to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

Buddhism and other spiritualities teach various self-improvements method to enable practitioners to differentiate between the 'real' self and the illusory self as & when the relevant circumstances is in effect.

[Dontaskme]

But the point really is about THE WHO OR WHAT is being delusion, who is experiencing a transcendental illusion? who is the claimer, who is the theist, who is the atheist? who is being DESPERATE? .. this is all about having KNOWLEDGE of such said concepts.
..

Stupid.

The WHO is who is the desperate delusional one who will rape and murder you [even if you are an old hag] upon the sanction of his GOD-IS.

I challenge you to get to a city square with full of people anywhere in Afghanistan, then burn the Quran and you will know who is who and what is what.

You really don't get it do you...there is no one doing anything, there is no one causing anything to happen, doing is done, no doer thereof, so even the act of evil senseless killing or no killing due to clear good conscience...is all still the same no one doing or making happen... Tell me, exactly Who knows Who is doing or making life happen? ...NO ONE KNOWS

If you say you know, you don't, you really really don't....except what no one, you make up.

You don't get it Veritas Aequitas because you keep churning out the same old subjects upon this forum over and over again. If you got it, you'd finally understand it, and then you'd let it go. The fact is you don't understand the nature of nonduality yet.

So be it, what ever you want to believe here, is entirely you're prerogative, it's your story you are clinging to, the one only you are making up, that you then flip over to it's opposite context by denying your story exists within the exact same story, like when you announce to yourself there is a ''someone'' who is the WHO in question here...and that when that ''someone'' aka who is standing in the square about to be killed, that's when you know who this who is ...oh really! and so again, just who is that exactly?

And yet this 'who' really does exist according to your story report, and yet also in your story, God doesn't exist, but the ''WHO'' does.


Well fine as long as you can see where this is going.... this is very similar to the superman dilemma isn't it...when the girl was falling from the building and superman flew down to scoop her in his arms to rescue her, then calmly said to her it's ok ''....I've got you...'' to which she replied in a rather shocked and surprised voice...''....you got me, WHO'S got you....'' ?

Like I said before, there is no way of this mental maze...The mind and the contents of mind are the same.

No one has ever seen a mind, there is only A fictional story arising here. It's ok VA we're all a little mad here, even you, you are not alone, you've always got your imaginary friend that will inform you that you exist. He's right behind you.

.

[dxoutkast]

But the point really is about THE WHO OR WHAT is being delusion, who is experiencing a transcendental illusion? who is the claimer, who is the theist, who is the atheist? who is being DESPERATE? .. this is all about having KNOWLEDGE of such said concepts.
..

Stupid.

The WHO is who is the desperate delusional one who will rape and murder you [even if you are an old hag] upon the sanction of his GOD-IS.

I challenge you to get to a city square with full of people anywhere in Afghanistan, then burn the Quran and you will know who is who and what is what.

You really don't get it do you...there is no one doing anything, there is no one causing anything to happen, doing is done, no doer thereof, so even the act of evil senseless killing or no killing due to clear good conscience...is all still the same no one doing or making happen... Tell me, exactly Who knows Who is doing or making life happen? ...NO ONE KNOWS

If you say you know, you don't, you really really don't....except what no one, you make up.

You don't get it Veritas Aequitas because you keep churning out the same old subjects upon this forum over and over again. If you got it, you'd finally understand it, and then you'd let it go. The fact is you don't understand the nature of nonduality yet.

So be it, what ever you want to believe here, is entirely you're prerogative, it's your story you are clinging to, the one only you are making up, that you then flip over to it's opposite context by denying your story exists within the exact same story, like when you announce to yourself there is a ''someone'' who is the WHO in question here...and that when that ''someone'' aka who is standing in the square about to be killed, that's when you know who this who is ..?

And yet this 'who' really does exist according to your story report, and yet also in your story, God doesn't exist, but the ''WHO'' .


Well fine as long as you can see where this is going.... this is very similar to the superman dilemma isn't it...when the girl was falling from the building and superman flew down to scoop her in his arms to rescue her, then calmly said to her it's ok ''....I've got you...'' to which she replied in a rather shocked and surprised voice...''....you got me, WHO'S got you....'' ?

Like I said before, there is no way of this mental maze...The mind and the contents of mind.
It's ok VA

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How does one 'see' his mind?
That doesn't even make sense.

How do you differ seeing a mind from not seeing it?

How would it be like to see a mind in opposite of not seeing it?

So we can have a comparable situation, then we can affirm if a mind is or not there.


You got nothing but semantic questions.
"Who is that you who sees it"? Who who who? Your name is not an answer.. who who who??? No, not the ego, no not the illusory constructed self.....who? who ??? And you go on and on with this rubbish..

Same when asking about the mind..

Until people like me break your fallacious paradox asking questions that you won't be able to answer.

[dxoutkast]

Why this is so?
It is due to desperate psychology within the brain to deceive so as to facilitate survival.

I think it is due to the fact that the eyes and mouth in the right picture are actually the right way round - also, the mouth is smiling and the eyes are looking friendly and as these are the two most prominent and expressive features of any face these are also the parts one primarily focuses on.
There is no "desperate psychology within the brain" - its simply how people make sense of facial expressions.

Same applies to the what the senses don't recognise and know via a̷̶̷w̷̶̷a̷̶̷r̷̶̷e̷̶̷n̷̶̷e̷̶̷s̷̶̷s̷̶̷ what information the senses are receiving from the external world they can not show up on s̶̷̶c̶̷̶r̶̷̶e̶̷̶e̶̷̶n̶̷̶ ̶̷̶o̶̷̶f̶̷̶ ̶a̷̶̷w̷̶̷a̷̶̷r̷̶̷e̷̶̷n̷̶̷e̷̶̷s̷̶̷s̷̶̷ your retina even though they are there.

Probably have said that in a crap way, but never mind.

.

Same applies to the what the senses don't recognise and know via what the senses are receiving from the external world they can not show up on your retina even though they are there.

There fixed it for ya.