A Stoic Response To The Climate Crisis

[Nick_A]

I too like to be challenged.You wrote:

" Hope, when bold, is strength. Hope, with doubt, is cowardice. Hope, with fear, is weakness."

But fear is biologically sound and is present for good and sufficient reason. Hope without doubt is not cowardice but is rash and impulsive.

Hope when bold refers to conscious hope. When it exists it only has an affirming side so there is nothing to doubt since it connects levels of being as there is with emotional and indoctrinated faith. Here is a good description of conscious hope

"Hope is a state of mind, not of the world. Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously heading for success, but rather an ability to work for something because it is good." Vaclav Havel

Animal Man has hope for pragmatic aims relating to our worldly desires while conscious man has hope because it includes what the universal purpose of our world is. Emotional hope includes denial while conscious hope when present, is pure affirmation.

Faith is good when it follows reflection on knowledge and good judgement.If there were a God would He want men to believe every con man or clever fool?

But we both do not believe in a personal god made in the image of Man

Nick wrote:
It is our potential to receive from above to give to below but is only a potential some have experienced the beginning of.

That is too elitist for me!

Now you’ve raised another question for me which may explain the negative attitude towards religion as opposed to manipulated fantasy. What is the difference between elitism and humility?

The person having a genuine religious experience in which he experiences a quality of being far greater than his own begins to feel humble. He senses his nothingness as did the centurion. But this “nothingness” can easily be seen as elitism. Who is this person to assert that he felt a reality, I as an educated human being, is unaware of? His humility is seen as offensive and elitist

For the secularist the earth is the center of our universe. The uiversalist in contrast sees the earth as part of a vertical hierarchy of values connecting above and below. In contrast the earth for the universalist is one step along the ladder of being connecting qualities of relative consciousness beginning with the GOOD or the ONE beyond time and space

[Nick_A]

I too like to be challenged.You wrote:

" Hope, when bold, is strength. Hope, with doubt, is cowardice. Hope, with fear, is weakness."

But fear is biologically sound and is present for good and sufficient reason. Hope without doubt is not cowardice but is rash and impulsive.

Hope when bold refers to conscious hope. When it exists it only has an affirming side so there is nothing to doubt since it connects levels of being as there is with emotional and indoctrinated faith. Here is a good description of conscious hope

"Hope is a state of mind, not of the world. Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously heading for success, but rather an ability to work for something because it is good." Vaclav Havel

Animal Man has hope for pragmatic aims relating to our worldly desires while conscious man has hope because it includes what the universal purpose of our world is. Emotional hope includes denial while conscious hope when present, is pure affirmation.

Faith is good when it follows reflection on knowledge and good judgement.If there were a God would He want men to believe every con man or clever fool?

But we both do not believe in a personal god made in the image of Man

Nick wrote:
It is our potential to receive from above to give to below but is only a potential some have experienced the beginning of.

That is too elitist for me!

Now you’ve raised another question for me which may explain the negative attitude towards religion as opposed to manipulated fantasy. What is the difference between elitism and humility?

The person having a genuine religious experience in which he experiences a quality of being far greater than his own begins to feel humble. He senses his nothingness as did the centurion. But this “nothingness” can easily be seen as elitism. Who is this person to assert that he felt a reality, I as an educated human being, is unaware of? His humility is seen as offensive and elitist

For the secularist the earth is the center of our universe. The uiversalist in contrast sees the earth as part of a vertical hierarchy of values connecting above and below. In contrast the earth for the universalist is one step along the ladder of being connecting qualities of relative consciousness beginning with the GOOD or the ONE beyond time and space

The great difficulty is the concept that man is dual natured. He has a higher part capable of consciousness which descended from above and an animal part normal for animal life on earth. Simone explains it in this excerpt in her usual laconic fashion.

Another terrestrial manifestation of this reality lies in the absurd and insoluble contradictions which are always the terminus of human thought when it moves exclusively in this world.

Another terrestrial manifestation of this reality lies in the absurd and insoluble contradictions which are always the terminus of human thought when it moves exclusively in this world.

Just as the reality of this world is the sole foundation of facts, so that other reality is the sole foundation of good.

That reality is the unique source of all the good that can exist in this world: that is to say, all beauty, all truth, all justice, all legitimacy, all order, and all human behaviour that is mindful of obligations.

"At the centre of the human heart is the longing for an absolute good, a longing which is always there and is never appeased by any object in this world."
Those minds whose attention and love are turned towards that reality are the sole intermediary through which good can descend from there and come among men.

As you know there have been many threads on objective morality. If Man is dual natured, objective morality is only for the higher conscious parts of our collective presence. Animal Man doesn't want it. We both want it and don't. The result is the struggle between the conscious and animal parts of our collective essence. It is only a small minority capable of awakening to this potential and remain free of this eternal inner struggle. But when I consider faith, hope, and love, from the animal perspective with the potential for consciousness, then Man's enormous conscious eveolutionary potential becomes clear.