Coronavirus Craziness

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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Lacewing
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Lacewing »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:24 am Do you wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang, do you wanna be in my gang OH YEAH..la, la, la, lah la! :wink: :wink:
:lol: As much as I can appreciate your carefree and playful spirit, there's only so much I can take of anyone's madness on this forum. Perhaps we all "let loose" a little/lot more here than we would in person. So we all get to witness some really crazy crap, not only in what people believe, but what they'll do to avoid questioning that/themselves, and how they narrowly define certain groups of people. A lot of it is truly nuts.

I do honestly try to strive for clarity amidst all the noise. Of course, striving for clarity HERE means challenging beliefs and noticing ego dances. It seems absurd that so many people come here just for a platform for their own beliefs. I think of philosophy as QUESTIONING beliefs and EXPLORING ideas. And clarity is more important and useful (to me) than any belief system or particular branch of philosophy. Courageous clarity doesn't require an ego or smokescreen or denial or double-talk to protect itself. It just steps right up and says: What IS THIS, REALLY?
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Sculptor »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:36 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:24 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:10 am
Bill Gates used to hang out with this trickster Epstein at his fantasy island. God help us all.

.
How do you 'know' that? Were you there? Did you personally see this, in person?
I saw them in a photo together. I'm assuming the camera never lies...google for the photo.

Here, I've done it for you, godspeed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/busi ... gates.html

They met at Jeffrey Epstein’s Manhattan mansion. I'm not sure about the fantasy island, was just guessing at that, but who knows what these men get up to behind closed doors eh?

.
Gates denied that he had any business affairs with Epstein.
With that he has shot himself in the foot, for one can only ask what was he doing at Epstein's palace knowing him to be a paedophile? If not business, then what?
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Sculptor »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:36 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:26 am
Ps. Oddly enough I wasn't there, in my shrinking suit, personally witnessing the transfer of a virus from a bat to a pangolin to a human at the Wuhan wet market.
Well unless the Bats and Pangolins are all exterminated from the face of the earth never to be seen again, then it's going to keep happening, thus, we're all going to be staying in lockdown indefinitely...excellent, my idea of heaven, hope you enjoy your incarceration too.

Business as usual then, happy days! :roll:

The Chinese way, who knows what they know, the Chinese way! lalala la la
People who rush to this conclusion are either racist against Chinese and their "foreign virus" like Trump; or Vege-fascists who want us to believe that eating meat is evil.

As far as I know there is NO evidence, except circumstantial.
As far as we know humans could well have given the virus to those same animals now accused of infecting us.
Since ALL evidence is post hoc, following from well after the infection was well spread and identified it simply cannot be the case that any evidence could reflect a particular trajectory.
All such suggestions are speculation.
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Walker »

Add to the list the speculation that the Chinese communist government, having correctly assessed the temper of the West for decades, is playing the long game without firing a shot.

What species of bat was in the toxic soup, and is it indigenous to the Wuhan area?
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:36 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:24 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:10 am
Bill Gates used to hang out with this trickster Epstein at his fantasy island. God help us all.

.
How do you 'know' that? Were you there? Did you personally see this, in person?
I saw them in a photo together. I'm assuming the camera never lies...google for the photo.

Here, I've done it for you, godspeed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/busi ... gates.html

They met at Jeffrey Epstein’s Manhattan mansion. I'm not sure about the fantasy island, was just guessing at that, but who knows what these men get up to behind closed doors eh?

.
Ever heard of photoshop? But then again, nothing is 'real'. 'They' don't exist.
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:03 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:36 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:26 am
Ps. Oddly enough I wasn't there, in my shrinking suit, personally witnessing the transfer of a virus from a bat to a pangolin to a human at the Wuhan wet market.
Well unless the Bats and Pangolins are all exterminated from the face of the earth never to be seen again, then it's going to keep happening, thus, we're all going to be staying in lockdown indefinitely...excellent, my idea of heaven, hope you enjoy your incarceration too.

Business as usual then, happy days! :roll:

The Chinese way, who knows what they know, the Chinese way! lalala la la
People who rush to this conclusion are either racist against Chinese and their "foreign virus" like Trump; or Vege-fascists who want us to believe that eating meat is evil.

As far as I know there is NO evidence, except circumstantial.
As far as we know humans could well have given the virus to those same animals now accused of infecting us.
Since ALL evidence is post hoc, following from well after the infection was well spread and identified it simply cannot be the case that any evidence could reflect a particular trajectory.
All such suggestions are speculation.
PC fuckturds strike again :roll: I wouldn't have had you pegged as a conspiracytard as well. Any excuse to trot out the 'dreaded' 'R' word, to show the rest of us how 'enlightened' and 'tolerant' you are. You kunts will be the death of us all.
Just because evidence is 'circumstantial' doesn't make it wrong, or any less compelling. In this case it's the only possible 'kind' of evidence because obviously no one physically witnessed the actual transference of the virus from one species to another. How the fuck could they?
So, as usual, it all comes down to money and power--and China has both in spades.



Ps, I couldn't give a flying bowl of bat soup whether or not you think I'm a 'racist' so don't waste your breath--you are going to need it when you are choking on your own blood.
Humans are doomed because there are too many disingenuous shit-heads with an agenda who don't give a shit about whether or not something is true. And yes, 'vege warriors' are getting in on the act too, muddying the waters and using it as an opportunity to shove their agenda. They need to be ignored. This has nothing to do with whether or not people eat meat, as this article points out. Plus, many of those animals are slaughtered for so-called 'traditional medicine'-- not consumption.
If the virus came from, say, Russia as one example, would the hypocritical PCturd lobby by screeching 'racism'? Of course not--because they are partronising, racist, hypocritical turds.

I suppose this guy is 'racist' too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hksU&t=1117s

''Donald Trump calls it the “Chinese virus” – to widespread fury. China has expelled prominent American journalists and launched a disinformation campaign that accuses the American army of starting it. Taiwan has accused the World Health Organisation of ignoring its warnings in January about human-to-human transmission because of Chinese pressure.

Is China to blame?

There are two charges against the Chinese government over the coronavirus pandemic to be considered. The first is that it allowed risky “wet markets” to continue operating despite the warning of the SARS epidemic in 2003. The second is that it tried to suppress news about the new coronavirus and deny the evidence of human-to-human transmission until late in January, even silencing a whistleblower-doctor who later died.

There is currently a huge propaganda pushback being organised by the Chinese state on both issues and it is having an effect. Those who raise the matter of Chinese government responsibility are quickly accused of racism. This is deflection. Nobody is accusing ordinary Chinese people of anything. The charge is that the government acted in a way that allowed the pandemic to start and to worsen.

Yet already the media, fearful of being called racist, seems to have begun self-censoring. The news site Vox recently carried a video. The title was abruptly changed without explanation from “Why New Diseases Keep Appearing In China,” to “How Wildlife Trade Is Linked To Coronavirus.” CNN carried a long article that said “Scientists are still unsure where the virus originated,” before admitting several paragraphs later that the “likely epicentre” lies in “the so-called wet-markets of Wuhan, China — where wild animals are held captive together and sold as delicacies or pets, a terrifying mix of viruses and species can occur.”

This is something almost everybody agrees on. The earliest cases of the disease occurred very close to one of these markets in Wuhan. Here all sorts of exotic wildlife was on sale, alive, for eating and for use in Traditional Chinese Medicine. The strong belief that an animal is better for you or tastes better if you see it killed animates these markets.

It was the use of palm civets in medicine that almost certainly led to the SARS epidemic in 2002-3 and it may have been the same with pangolins in today’s epidemic. Civets were bred for sale in markets, and those in the market in Fushan, where the epidemic started, proved to be heavily infected with SARS, whereas those on civet farms were clear. So the infection jumped species in the market. The natural host turned out to be bats. Indeed a whole raft of human diseases have come from bats, most of them recently: rabies, ebola, Hendra, nipah, MERS as well as SARS.

“The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb,” wrote four Hong Kong scientists in 2007 – 13 years ago. Their warning was ignored.

A book published in 2016 stated that: “Bats are not specifically protected in China and many species are eaten, especially in southern China, where bats are found regularly in markets…Requests from international agencies following the SARS outbreak, (which resulted in several hundred human deaths) that wildlife legislation be introduced in China prohibiting inter alia hunting and sale of bats have been ignored.” That has now belatedly changed, with China temporarily banning wildlife markets. But they did that after SARS, too, and then reopened them.

Much of the demand for wildlife products is medicinal or at least tonic: the products are sold as good for health, or sexual potency, on the basis of zero evidence. The Chinese government has even encouraged the use of Traditional Chinese Medicine, despite the health risks and the impact on rare wildlife. In 2019, the state-run China Daily news quoted Xi Jinping himself as saying that “traditional medicine is a treasure of Chinese civilisation, embodying the wisdom of the nation and its people”.

To be clear, there is nothing inherently wrong with eating wild animals. Many people eat pigeons, deer and cod safely. What is dangerous is selling live wild animals in markets where infections can pass on easily or mix with those from other species.

In a convenient distraction from the wet-market theory, some western environmentalists are currently trying to pin the blame for this pandemic on the destruction of the natural environment, supposedly resulting in people coming into contact with wildlife such as bats for the first time. This idea, which has been doing the rounds for a couple of decades, is barking mad as an argument for three reasons.

First, human beings were in far closer contact with wildlife in the natural state in the past, when they routinely hunted animals for food in the forest, than they are now.

Second, SARS and COVID-19 came from urban markets and one of them originated in a farmed animal – the palm civet. Neither virus was encountered in a wilderness. The practice of wildlife farming of many exotic species is peculiar to China.

Third, there is no evidence of bat populations being under stress from climate change or habitat destruction at the present time, let alone any respectable theory about how stress would lead bats to give their diseases to people more readily. Indeed, China is one of the countries that is rapidly reforesting, rather than deforesting, making more habitat for bats. Bats are full of respiratory viruses because, like us, they gather in large crowds, at roosts, not because they are scarce. It is our modern urban living that has made us vulnerable, not our encroachment on nature.

What about the other argument, that the Chinese government covered up evidence of human-to-human transmission till well into January? The World Health Organisation, which has been accused of being very much in thrall to the Chinese government before, tweeted on 14 January: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.” Ouch. Already then there was a month’s worth of evidence of cases of human transmission.

A week later WHO’s secretary general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, was briefed on the situation and announced sycophantically that: “I was very impressed by the detail and depth of China’s presentation. I also appreciate the cooperation of China’s Minister of Health, who I have spoken with directly during the last few days and weeks. His leadership and the intervention of President Xi and Premier Li have been invaluable, and all the measures they have taken to respond to the outbreak.”

Taiwan was already warning the World Health Organisation by this stage that something frightening was happening in China, but its warnings were ignored. Taiwan is excluded from the WHO at China’s behest.

On 30 December, Dr Li Wenliang sent a message to fellow doctors warning them of the threat of catching the new virus. He was reprimanded for “spreading false rumours” and police forced him to sign a statement that he had “seriously disrupted social order” and breached the law. Dr Li died of coronavirus in February.

Elsewhere in the world on 4 February, the mayor of Florence urged people to hug any Chinese people as a gesture of support against the virus.''
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:52 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:36 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:24 am

How do you 'know' that? Were you there? Did you personally see this, in person?
I saw them in a photo together. I'm assuming the camera never lies...google for the photo.

Here, I've done it for you, godspeed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/busi ... gates.html

They met at Jeffrey Epstein’s Manhattan mansion. I'm not sure about the fantasy island, was just guessing at that, but who knows what these men get up to behind closed doors eh?

.
Gates denied that he had any business affairs with Epstein.
With that he has shot himself in the foot, for one can only ask what was he doing at Epstein's palace knowing him to be a paedophile? If not business, then what?
Do you know what a paedophile is?

You seem to have caught a disease called 'stupid'. It used to only show occasional symptoms, but they are getting more and more frequent.

It's plausible that many people who mis-use the word 'paedophile' are themselves paedophiles, deflecting heat from their own corner in the same way that PCturds mis-use the 'R' word-- ultimately rendering the words meaningless.
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm Just because evidence is 'circumstantial' doesn't make it wrong, or any less compelling.

Circumstantial evidence is less credible than physical evidence.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm In this case it's the only possible 'kind' of evidence because obviously no one physically witnessed the actual transference of the virus from one species to another.

Just because the only available evidence is circumstantial, that doesn’t make it more compelling.
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

commonsense wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:00 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm Just because evidence is 'circumstantial' doesn't make it wrong, or any less compelling.

Circumstantial evidence is less credible than physical evidence.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm In this case it's the only possible 'kind' of evidence because obviously no one physically witnessed the actual transference of the virus from one species to another.

Just because the only available evidence is circumstantial, that doesn’t make it more compelling.
There is plenty of 'physical' evidence too--like hundreds of thousands of dead people. Is that the only part you read?
And it doesn't need to be 'more compelling'. What kind of 'physical evidence' would you find 'more compelling' in this case?
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

The PC are such monumental racists. They actually believe that 'white' people are the default humans, which is why they never screech 'racism' when something negative involves people from a 'white' country. It's only 'racism' when it involves those they consider inferior to themselves--non white humans.
The PC are a sociopathic disgrace and blight on humanity.
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hksU&t=1117s

“Donald Trump calls it the “Chinese virus” – to widespread fury. China has expelled prominent American journalists and launched a disinformation campaign that accuses the American army of starting it. Taiwan has accused the World Health Organisation of ignoring its warnings in January about human-to-human transmission because of Chinese pressure.

“Is China to blame?

“There are two charges against the Chinese government over the coronavirus pandemic to be considered. The first is that it allowed risky “wet markets” to continue operating despite the warning of the SARS epidemic in 2003. The second is that it tried to suppress news about the new coronavirus and deny the evidence of human-to-human transmission until late in January, even silencing a whistleblower-doctor who later died.

“There is currently a huge propaganda pushback being organised by the Chinese state on both issues and it is having an effect. Those who raise the matter of Chinese government responsibility are quickly accused of racism. This is deflection. Nobody is accusing ordinary Chinese people of anything. The charge is that the government acted in a way that allowed the pandemic to start and to worsen.

“Yet already the media, fearful of being called racist, seems to have begun self-censoring. The news site Vox recently carried a video. The title was abruptly changed without explanation from “Why New Diseases Keep Appearing In China,” to “How Wildlife Trade Is Linked To Coronavirus.” CNN carried a long article that said “Scientists are still unsure where the virus originated,” before admitting several paragraphs later that the “likely epicentre” lies in “the so-called wet-markets of Wuhan, China — where wild animals are held captive together and sold as delicacies or pets, a terrifying mix of viruses and species can occur.”

“This is something almost everybody agrees on. The earliest cases of the disease occurred very close to one of these markets in Wuhan. Here all sorts of exotic wildlife was on sale, alive, for eating and for use in Traditional Chinese Medicine. The strong belief that an animal is better for you or tastes better if you see it killed animates these markets.

“It was the use of palm civets in medicine that almost certainly led to the SARS epidemic in 2002-3 and it may have been the same with pangolins in today’s epidemic. Civets were bred for sale in markets, and those in the market in Fushan, where the epidemic started, proved to be heavily infected with SARS, whereas those on civet farms were clear. So the infection jumped species in the market. The natural host turned out to be bats. Indeed a whole raft of human diseases have come from bats, most of them recently: rabies, ebola, Hendra, nipah, MERS as well as SARS.

“‘The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb,’ wrote four Hong Kong scientists in 2007 – 13 years ago. Their warning was ignored.

“A book published in 2016 stated that: “Bats are not specifically protected in China and many species are eaten, especially in southern China, where bats are found regularly in markets…Requests from international agencies following the SARS outbreak, (which resulted in several hundred human deaths) that wildlife legislation be introduced in China prohibiting inter alia hunting and sale of bats have been ignored.” That has now belatedly changed, with China temporarily banning wildlife markets. But they did that after SARS, too, and then reopened them.

“Much of the demand for wildlife products is medicinal or at least tonic: the products are sold as good for health, or sexual potency, on the basis of zero evidence. The Chinese government has even encouraged the use of Traditional Chinese Medicine, despite the health risks and the impact on rare wildlife. In 2019, the state-run China Daily news quoted Xi Jinping himself as saying that “traditional medicine is a treasure of Chinese civilisation, embodying the wisdom of the nation and its people”.

“To be clear, there is nothing inherently wrong with eating wild animals. Many people eat pigeons, deer and cod safely. What is dangerous is selling live wild animals in markets where infections can pass on easily or mix with those from other species.

“In a convenient distraction from the wet-market theory, some western environmentalists are currently trying to pin the blame for this pandemic on the destruction of the natural environment, supposedly resulting in people coming into contact with wildlife such as bats for the first time. This idea, which has been doing the rounds for a couple of decades, is barking mad as an argument for three reasons.

“First, human beings were in far closer contact with wildlife in the natural state in the past, when they routinely hunted animals for food in the forest, than they are now.

“Second, SARS and COVID-19 came from urban markets and one of them originated in a farmed animal – the palm civet. Neither virus was encountered in a wilderness. The practice of wildlife farming of many exotic species is peculiar to China.

“Third, there is no evidence of bat populations being under stress from climate change or habitat destruction at the present time, let alone any respectable theory about how stress would lead bats to give their diseases to people more readily. Indeed, China is one of the countries that is rapidly reforesting, rather than deforesting, making more habitat for bats. Bats are full of respiratory viruses because, like us, they gather in large crowds, at roosts, not because they are scarce. It is our modern urban living that has made us vulnerable, not our encroachment on nature.

“What about the other argument, that the Chinese government covered up evidence of human-to-human transmission till well into January? The World Health Organisation, which has been accused of being very much in thrall to the Chinese government before, tweeted on 14 January: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.” Ouch. Already then there was a month’s worth of evidence of cases of human transmission.

“A week later WHO’s secretary general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, was briefed on the situation and announced sycophantically that: “I was very impressed by the detail and depth of China’s presentation. I also appreciate the cooperation of China’s Minister of Health, who I have spoken with directly during the last few days and weeks. His leadership and the intervention of President Xi and Premier Li have been invaluable, and all the measures they have taken to respond to the outbreak.”

“Taiwan was already warning the World Health Organisation by this stage that something frightening was happening in China, but its warnings were ignored. Taiwan is excluded from the WHO at China’s behest.

“On 30 December, Dr Li Wenliang sent a message to fellow doctors warning them of the threat of catching the new virus. He was reprimanded for “spreading false rumours” and police forced him to sign a statement that he had “seriously disrupted social order” and breached the law. Dr Li died of coronavirus in February.

“Elsewhere in the world on 4 February, the mayor of Florence urged people to hug any Chinese people as a gesture of support against the virus.''
Thanks for giving us the link. Do you know who YouTube used for their source?
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

commonsense wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:18 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hksU&t=1117s

“Donald Trump calls it the “Chinese virus” – to widespread fury. China has expelled prominent American journalists and launched a disinformation campaign that accuses the American army of starting it. Taiwan has accused the World Health Organisation of ignoring its warnings in January about human-to-human transmission because of Chinese pressure.

“Is China to blame?

“There are two charges against the Chinese government over the coronavirus pandemic to be considered. The first is that it allowed risky “wet markets” to continue operating despite the warning of the SARS epidemic in 2003. The second is that it tried to suppress news about the new coronavirus and deny the evidence of human-to-human transmission until late in January, even silencing a whistleblower-doctor who later died.

“There is currently a huge propaganda pushback being organised by the Chinese state on both issues and it is having an effect. Those who raise the matter of Chinese government responsibility are quickly accused of racism. This is deflection. Nobody is accusing ordinary Chinese people of anything. The charge is that the government acted in a way that allowed the pandemic to start and to worsen.

“Yet already the media, fearful of being called racist, seems to have begun self-censoring. The news site Vox recently carried a video. The title was abruptly changed without explanation from “Why New Diseases Keep Appearing In China,” to “How Wildlife Trade Is Linked To Coronavirus.” CNN carried a long article that said “Scientists are still unsure where the virus originated,” before admitting several paragraphs later that the “likely epicentre” lies in “the so-called wet-markets of Wuhan, China — where wild animals are held captive together and sold as delicacies or pets, a terrifying mix of viruses and species can occur.”

“This is something almost everybody agrees on. The earliest cases of the disease occurred very close to one of these markets in Wuhan. Here all sorts of exotic wildlife was on sale, alive, for eating and for use in Traditional Chinese Medicine. The strong belief that an animal is better for you or tastes better if you see it killed animates these markets.

“It was the use of palm civets in medicine that almost certainly led to the SARS epidemic in 2002-3 and it may have been the same with pangolins in today’s epidemic. Civets were bred for sale in markets, and those in the market in Fushan, where the epidemic started, proved to be heavily infected with SARS, whereas those on civet farms were clear. So the infection jumped species in the market. The natural host turned out to be bats. Indeed a whole raft of human diseases have come from bats, most of them recently: rabies, ebola, Hendra, nipah, MERS as well as SARS.

“‘The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb,’ wrote four Hong Kong scientists in 2007 – 13 years ago. Their warning was ignored.

“A book published in 2016 stated that: “Bats are not specifically protected in China and many species are eaten, especially in southern China, where bats are found regularly in markets…Requests from international agencies following the SARS outbreak, (which resulted in several hundred human deaths) that wildlife legislation be introduced in China prohibiting inter alia hunting and sale of bats have been ignored.” That has now belatedly changed, with China temporarily banning wildlife markets. But they did that after SARS, too, and then reopened them.

“Much of the demand for wildlife products is medicinal or at least tonic: the products are sold as good for health, or sexual potency, on the basis of zero evidence. The Chinese government has even encouraged the use of Traditional Chinese Medicine, despite the health risks and the impact on rare wildlife. In 2019, the state-run China Daily news quoted Xi Jinping himself as saying that “traditional medicine is a treasure of Chinese civilisation, embodying the wisdom of the nation and its people”.

“To be clear, there is nothing inherently wrong with eating wild animals. Many people eat pigeons, deer and cod safely. What is dangerous is selling live wild animals in markets where infections can pass on easily or mix with those from other species.

“In a convenient distraction from the wet-market theory, some western environmentalists are currently trying to pin the blame for this pandemic on the destruction of the natural environment, supposedly resulting in people coming into contact with wildlife such as bats for the first time. This idea, which has been doing the rounds for a couple of decades, is barking mad as an argument for three reasons.

“First, human beings were in far closer contact with wildlife in the natural state in the past, when they routinely hunted animals for food in the forest, than they are now.

“Second, SARS and COVID-19 came from urban markets and one of them originated in a farmed animal – the palm civet. Neither virus was encountered in a wilderness. The practice of wildlife farming of many exotic species is peculiar to China.

“Third, there is no evidence of bat populations being under stress from climate change or habitat destruction at the present time, let alone any respectable theory about how stress would lead bats to give their diseases to people more readily. Indeed, China is one of the countries that is rapidly reforesting, rather than deforesting, making more habitat for bats. Bats are full of respiratory viruses because, like us, they gather in large crowds, at roosts, not because they are scarce. It is our modern urban living that has made us vulnerable, not our encroachment on nature.

“What about the other argument, that the Chinese government covered up evidence of human-to-human transmission till well into January? The World Health Organisation, which has been accused of being very much in thrall to the Chinese government before, tweeted on 14 January: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.” Ouch. Already then there was a month’s worth of evidence of cases of human transmission.

“A week later WHO’s secretary general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, was briefed on the situation and announced sycophantically that: “I was very impressed by the detail and depth of China’s presentation. I also appreciate the cooperation of China’s Minister of Health, who I have spoken with directly during the last few days and weeks. His leadership and the intervention of President Xi and Premier Li have been invaluable, and all the measures they have taken to respond to the outbreak.”

“Taiwan was already warning the World Health Organisation by this stage that something frightening was happening in China, but its warnings were ignored. Taiwan is excluded from the WHO at China’s behest.

“On 30 December, Dr Li Wenliang sent a message to fellow doctors warning them of the threat of catching the new virus. He was reprimanded for “spreading false rumours” and police forced him to sign a statement that he had “seriously disrupted social order” and breached the law. Dr Li died of coronavirus in February.

“Elsewhere in the world on 4 February, the mayor of Florence urged people to hug any Chinese people as a gesture of support against the virus.''
Thanks for giving us the link. Do you know who YouTube used for their source?
You obviously didn't watch the video, because it has nothing to do with the article.

This is exactly what I mean. If something is true then what difference does it make who's delivering the message, or on what forum?
You are 'checking' to see if it fits with your political agenda.
Fuck people. I don't know why I bother. They really do deserve everything they get.
commonsense
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:03 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:00 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm Just because evidence is 'circumstantial' doesn't make it wrong, or any less compelling.

Circumstantial evidence is less credible than physical evidence.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:10 pm In this case it's the only possible 'kind' of evidence because obviously no one physically witnessed the actual transference of the virus from one species to another.

Just because the only available evidence is circumstantial, that doesn’t make it more compelling.
There is plenty of 'physical' evidence too--like hundreds of thousands of dead people. Is that the only part you read?
And it doesn't need to be 'more compelling'. What kind of 'physical evidence' would you find 'more compelling' in this case?
The physical evidence you offer—at least 200,000 dead—isn’t evidence of a plot by anyone. As such, 100,000’s of people are neither compelling nor relevant to the claim that they died because there was a plot behind the virus.

Any kind of direct evidence is more compelling than circumstantial evidence.

Is that the only part I read? No, it is the only part of what you wrote that is a logical fallacy.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

commonsense wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:33 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:03 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:00 pm


Circumstantial evidence is less credible than physical evidence.





Just because the only available evidence is circumstantial, that doesn’t make it more compelling.
There is plenty of 'physical' evidence too--like hundreds of thousands of dead people. Is that the only part you read?
And it doesn't need to be 'more compelling'. What kind of 'physical evidence' would you find 'more compelling' in this case?
The physical evidence you offer—at least 200,000 dead—isn’t evidence of a plot by anyone. As such, 100,000’s of people are neither compelling nor relevant to the claim that they died because there was a plot behind the virus.

Any kind of direct evidence is more compelling than circumstantial evidence.

Is that the only part I read? No, it is the only part of what you wrote that is a logical fallacy.
Who said anything about a 'plot'?

I have no idea what you are wittering about.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor has me 'blacklisted' because he can't face the truth about himself and his ilk.
The PC never have an argument, which is why they are always throwing around the 'R', 'B', and 'X' words. It's all they have. Losers.
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