Theodicy-problem: Why does God allow evil?

[philosopher]

I'd like to address the Theodicy-problem during this horrible pandemic. People suffer, and it's not only because of the carelessness or evil by other humans. It's nature itself causing innocent people - to suffer a horrible death.

I'm not addressing the philosophical issue of wether God exists or not. But in any case of any premise, you're left with several logical outcomes.

If you're a mathematician, you can invent something to begin with, but anything you invent - whether it be a flying unicorn with or without wings, the square root of -1 or an omnipotent, omniscient creator-deity who is also omnibenevolent, you can mathematically speaking, invent all of those things, yet anything you invent are subject to the rules of logic.

Which means if you invent the square root of -1, you get an imaginary number, "i" and an entire set of new rules are to be found.

Similarly if you "invent", say, God (who is omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent), even though said deity is claimed to be omnipotent, you still have to define what it means to be able to create anything, anytime - anywhere.

God could cancel the pandemic at any moment and say with a loud voice from the clouds: "I am God, and I'm here save you". But that would leave other complications. God could do away with these other complications, but that would create even more complications.

God could choose not to create the pandemic in the first place, to avoid such horrors. Well, then we'll have to specify what "such horrors" are. And which horrors are allowed? None? Well, then we'll have to do away with everything that has to do with pain and suffering, meaning we (or God) must be numb. But we do want to feel pleasure, right? Surely you don't want to be numb all the time, but an eternity of pleasure would be quite boring too - if not turning into madness and permanent insanity for all of humankind.

This entire subject made me think of what I really want... and it turns out to be vastly more complex and difficult to answer, than doing calculus.

I know I definitely don't want to feel pleasure all the time. But I don't want extreme pain either, and I don't want to feel numb, fearless or sane all the time either.

Also, I don't want to choose when I want to feel anxious, pleasure or in pain/painless, neither do I want to choose when to feel tired or awake at any time I so desire. What do I really want?

I don't know. Perhaps what I really want is to experience the world with some degree of certainty in some situations, and with less certainty in others.

I also want to feel as if I have a free will, even if I really don't have any such thing as a "free" will, I still want the illusion of my will to feel free.

From this set of rules, it follows that a horribly pleasurable, frighteningly fearless painful and nice yet scary world, with conscious observers in living mortal bodies are perhaps the least of all evils?

Just a quick take on the Theodicy-problem...

[henry quirk]

My god, if he gave a shit, would say if evil bothers you, stop doin' it

[philosopher]

My god, if he gave a shit, would say if evil bothers you, stop doin' it

Maybe God had no choice?

[Lacewing]

My god, if he gave a shit, would say if evil bothers you, stop doin' it

Would he give a shit about the evil that some do that affects others?

[philosopher]

Could it be, that God did not create the universe? Could it be that humans invented God, and God in turn shaped mankind in his image?

[Lacewing]

Could it be, that God did not create the universe? Could it be that humans invented God, and God in turn shaped mankind in his image?

It seems highly intoxicating for the human ego to be associated with a god-like idea, as ridiculous and unnecessary as that is.

[philosopher]

There's also a third possibility: God did not create the universe. God - the benevolent, is not the same as God - the creator.

In other words, the Devil is not the fallen angel, the Devil is our creator-deity and God - the savior, is a rebel who fell from Heaven after revolting against the evil creator-devil, became human and got crucified.

In this case, we are slaves of The Devil and our only hope is to wait for the rebel-God to save us - or rebel against the creator-deity/devil.

[henry quirk]

My god, if he gave a shit, would say if evil bothers you, stop doin' it

Maybe God had no choice?

I reckon he has the same capacity for choice you and I do, which is considerable.

[henry quirk]

My god, if he gave a shit, would say if evil bothers you, stop doin' it

Would he give a shit about the evil that some do that affects others?

I think he'd say I made you free and capable: if evil offends you, do sumthin' about it.

[Lacewing]

My god, if he gave a shit, would say if evil bothers you, stop doin' it

Would he give a shit about the evil that some do that affects others?

I think he'd say I made you free and capable: if evil offends you, do sumthin' about it.

So he's a hands-off kind of god. Great...don't need him.

[Immanuel Can]

I'd like to address the Theodicy-problem during this horrible pandemic. People suffer, and it's not only because of the carelessness or evil by other humans. It's nature itself causing innocent people - to suffer a horrible death.

I'm going to ask you the same question I'm asking Gary, P.

What do you think God should have done instead?

[Lacewing]

I'd like to address the Theodicy-problem during this horrible pandemic. People suffer, and it's not only because of the carelessness or evil by other humans. It's nature itself causing innocent people - to suffer a horrible death.

I'm going to ask you the same question I'm asking Gary, P.

What do you think God should have done instead?

Asking others questions without answering those put to you is obvious for what it is.

You already know that I don't believe in gods... which is why I'm not surprised that there's not a god doing anything.

It makes more sense to me that we are part of an immense energetic system, ebbing and flowing very perfectly in itself -- because there are no human judgments that apply on that scope. It is creation and destruction, in many varied forms... and there is no one at the helm, so-to-speak, (and no one needed).

[Immanuel Can]

You already know that I don't believe in gods... which is why I'm not surprised that there's not a god doing anything.

Right. So unlike Gary, you have no complaint against God, and are not interested in the Theodicy Problem, therefore.

For you, it's not a relevant topic. Now you see why I'm not discussing it with you. You have made up your own mind that there is no such problem.

[Lacewing]

You already know that I don't believe in gods... which is why I'm not surprised that there's not a god doing anything.

Right. So unlike Gary, you have no complaint against God, and are not interested in the Theodicy Problem, therefore.

For you, it's not a relevant topic. Now you see why I'm not discussing it with you. You have made up your own mind that there is no such problem.

We don't have to think the same to ask each other questions. That hasn't stopped us or anyone else before. You just don't want to answer the questions that you are putting to other people. Why is that?

[Immanuel Can]

We don't have to think the same to ask each other questions.

No, if we had two sides of an issue, it would be possible. But the question presumes at least the possibility of the existence of God...a thing about which you already profess that you have no opinion, because the requisite premise is not even possibly true, in your view.