The highest dialogical struggle.

[tapaticmadness]

You seem to have learned one important thing, namely that madness is real and not something to be easily dismissed.

Just not really interesting to me anymore. Seeing madness and not succumbing to it is much harder imo, requires more dedication.

I only get super curious anymore when I encounter a form of madness I haven't seen before, then I have to figure it out. But most forms of madness are pretty boring to me, for example some excessive platonistic nonsense, or the direct realism nonsense, or some extreme buddhist visceral mind over matter madness, or the many madness traps within nondualism, or just simple religious extasy found anywhere, or all the forms of 'madness' from psychology/psychiatry, and so on.

The only interesting kind of madness I am not bored with is erotic madness, especially the scandalous kind of queer love. Oh, there is so much to say about all that. Every religion at its extreme point becomes that.

[TheVisionofEr]

It's the same thing. 30 generations or so people started making a theory of objects or what is also called metaphysics, science or philosophy. It gradually came to the point where it was realized that truth or knowledge might be terrible for human beings. It was always assumed it would be Good. That is the point of Nihilismus in Nietzsche. Then a fix was made. The fact/vale distinction. The fix leads then to the view that at best the study of objects is good in a secondary way, through the production of technology and so forth. If it is not good, then why bother with it? It's just empty information. Or, an addiction.

We are human beings, so there is no sense in saying that we are seeking something that isn't somehow good. The whole idea of truth becomes meaningless as does the idea of the human being.

You presuppose a mind that can understand the truth. That can only be us. Then you delude yourself by pretending that the real truth is independent of us. Objective.

More subtly, the concept of the objective is a human concept. A notion which means tangibly a claim about the potential or posibility of something called the object. Which can only mean the object of our knowledge.

Why bother with it? Curiosity. (Btw it's also possible that it's good for one or a few humans after all, but bad for most other people.)

Also I said unreachable ideal of objectivity, understanding as much as we can, which acknowledges the limits of human understanding, and also doesn't refer to objects.

So by truth you don't mean truth, and your OP was pretentious whining then, because truth doesn't "kill" you, you just pretend it away or distort it, and look for something "good" instead.

It's the history of the West, and now the world, in which you currently have your being and which has endowed you with your thoughts and outlook. Passing it off as unimportant is just self delusion.

[Atla]

It's the history of the West, and now the world, in which you currently have your being and which has endowed you with your thoughts and outlook. Passing it off as unimportant is just self delusion.

I'm not passing it off as unimportant, it's simply not what the English word 'truth' means.

[TheVisionofEr]

It's the history of the West, and now the world, in which you currently have your being and which has endowed you with your thoughts and outlook. Passing it off as unimportant is just self delusion.

I'm not passing it off as unimportant, it's simply not what the English word 'truth' means.

It's a long story what it means, of which you are wholly uninformed and so in the grips of blind instinct like an ant.

[Atla]

It's the history of the West, and now the world, in which you currently have your being and which has endowed you with your thoughts and outlook. Passing it off as unimportant is just self delusion.

I'm not passing it off as unimportant, it's simply not what the English word 'truth' means.

It's a long story what it means, of which you are wholly uninformed and so in the grips of blind instinct like an ant.

Or maybe you are a fool clinging to thinking from hundreds of years ago.

[TheVisionofEr]

Read some history, dear baby. And learn about the history of the ideas which you are now living in like the most conservative cuck of the tradition.

[Atla]

Read some history, dear baby. And learn about the history of the ideas which you are now living in like the most conservative cuck of the tradition.

History of ideas is one thing, etymological fallacy is another.

Yes 90% of the time spent on learning the history of Western philosophy is wasted. Yes it hurts.

[TheVisionofEr]

You are very stupid. dixi

[Atla]

You are very stupid. dixi

Maybe, but at least every dictionary I've checked agrees with my stupidity. They didn't mention 'truth' being something necessarily 'good' for us.

[tapaticmadness]

You are very stupid. dixi

Maybe, but at least every dictionary I've checked agrees with my stupidity. They didn't mention 'truth' being something necessarily 'good' for us.

This argument between you two guys is hilarious.

[TheVisionofEr]

You are very stupid. dixi

Maybe, but at least every dictionary I've checked agrees with my stupidity. They didn't mention 'truth' being something necessarily 'good' for us.

I'm not referring to dictionaries or "etymologies," but rather to the real situation in which the word truth is used. In other words to the motive in life which is nominated by the word or sound.

I'm going to investigate and explicate this claim further in a post on the Matrix films.

[Atla]

I'm not referring to dictionaries or "etymologies," but rather to the real situation in which the word truth is used. In other words to the motive in life which is nominated by the word or sound.

I'm going to investigate and explicate this claim further in a post on the Matrix films.

Doesn't necessarily mean that in real situations either. As for the Matrix which isn't a real situation by the way, do you remember Cypher's take on the truth? Or the reason why they didn't disconnect people from the Matrix above a certain age?

[TheVisionofEr]

Our personal view of things or "image" of them, our sense of orientation or of what is significant, real or true could be, and indeed has become silently and after several generations almost unconsciously or instinctivly interpreted as not a real situation.

The interpretation of the human as "subjective" seems to imply that any attempt to distinguish real situations from images are meerly images or subjective.

A work of art can interpret what is really happening. What is real would have to be distinguished from the unreal or untrue.

I haven't seen the film in some time and am not clear on which details you want us to imagine or interpret.