A Stoic Response To The Climate Crisis

[Walker]

Walker, I don't pretend to be an exemplar. I can endure but I am more a follower than a leader.

I have been thinking about why you and Henry and others make rude jokes about such as Greta Thunberg. She and others like her are making a stand against death and disorder. You and Henry and others of the same political persuasion take refuge in narrow tribalism. I don't know what can be done about this. I don't even know what has caused some people in this day and age to be tribal, apart from fascism which itself may be nothing but a rationalisation of fear and regress.

What you call rude jokes are stoic responses, which makes Henry and I situation-appropriate to the thread.

Don’t worry, Greta is free to be a fool. Her kooky haranguing is just a dull, limp thread in the otherwise vibrant and dynamic tableaux of life, a bit of drab next to the glitter, easily woven into this age of over-hyped media jockeys such as Greta, with skills learned by any schoolboy who totes around memories of for instance, a bitter spinster hissing “hush!” in the school library, an observation sure to prompt a resounding yeah or two.

[henry quirk]

Walker, I don't pretend to be an exemplar. I can endure but I am more a follower than a leader.

I have been thinking about why you and Henry and others make rude jokes about such as Greta Thunberg. She and others like her are making a stand against death and disorder. You and Henry and others of the same political persuasion take refuge in narrow tribalism. I don't know what can be done about this. I don't even know what has caused some people in this day and age to be tribal, apart from fascism which itself may be nothing but a rationalisation of fear and regress.

What you call rude jokes are stoic responses, which makes Henry and I situation-appropriate to the thread.

Don’t worry, Greta is free to be a fool. Her kooky haranguing is just a dull, limp thread in the otherwise vibrant and dynamic tableaux of life, a bit of drab next to the glitter, easily woven into this age of over-hyped media jockeys such as Greta, with skills learned by any schoolboy who totes around memories of for instance, a bitter spinster hissing “hush!” in the school library, an observation sure to prompt a resounding yeah or two.

Speakin' of schoolboys: what happened to that lil shit, David Hogg? Same thing that's gonna happen to Greta, I imagine.

[Immanuel Can]

Speakin' of schoolboys: what happened to that lil shit, David Hogg? Same thing that's gonna happen to Greta, I imagine.

These climate activists...they're so messed up.

They advocate things like a city system of diesel trucks to pick up balloons of air (bottles), and then can only recycle 1/4 of them, so send the other 3/4 off to the landfill in another diesel truck. And they advocate for windmills, which are murder on birds, to generate electricity that is surplus. They drive electric automobiles that due to their batteries, tires and manufacture, actually have a larger carbon footprint than the gas ones. They buy electronics that rely on heavy metals poisonous to the environment and impossible to recycle sustainably. And they won't talk about China (which produces at least a third of the world's carbon footprint, currently, or India, which is poised to compete with it) or the Middle East, where much of the oil is produced, but want to score points in Canada, the UK or Sweden, where the problem can't really be solved.

And they use mentally-ill teenagers to do their work, because really, only a mentally-ill teenager would believe their nonsense.

IF human beings have a role in climate change, there is but one way it will be addressed: reduced consumption. Period. But nobody talks about that, because we all want to keep buying stuff, while pretending we're all fixing the environment at the same time.

I've said this before: but manifestly, no conversation about alleged human-caused climate change that does not begin with the words, "China and India" is even serious.

[henry quirk]

Speakin' of schoolboys: what happened to that lil shit, David Hogg? Same thing that's gonna happen to Greta, I imagine.

These climate activists...they're so messed up.

They advocate things like a city system of diesel trucks to pick up balloons of air (bottles), and then can only recycle 1/4 of them, so send the other 3/4 off to the landfill in another diesel truck. And they advocate for windmills, which are murder on birds, to generate electricity that is surplus. They drive electric automobiles that due to their batteries, tires and manufacture, actually have a larger carbon footprint than the gas ones. They buy electronics that rely on heavy metals poisonous to the environment and impossible to recycle sustainably. And they won't talk about China (which produces at least a third of the world's carbon footprint, currently, or India, which is poised to compete with it) or the Middle East, where much of the oil is produced, but want to score points in Canada, the UK or Sweden, where the problem can't really be solved.

And they use mentally-ill teenagers to do their work, because really, only a mentally-ill teenager would believe their nonsense.

IF human beings have a role in climate change, there is but one way it will be addressed: reduced consumption. Period. But nobody talks about that, because we all want to keep buying stuff, while pretending we're all fixing the environment at the same time.

I've said this before: but manifestly, no conversation about alleged human-caused climate change that does not begin with the words, "China and India" is even serious.

said it before: plant trees, replenish clam and oyster beds, sensibly control emissions, shut the flip up (greta), leave economies alone

[Belinda]

Henry Q, Walker and Immanuel Can share the same world view which includes love for Mr Trump and disdain for Greta Thunberg, and other attributes of the same cluster of ideas that includes e.g.private ownership of guns , and suchlike.

I wonder to what extent this particular world view (I don't know what to call this world view without sounding prejudiced) this particular world view as propounded by Henry, Walker, and Immanuel has caused its supporters to believe as they do, or whether individuals who believe as they do caused the world view.

It's not only in America we find individuals with the generally- regressive world view . I would like to know the social causes of the generally-regressive world view, and also the causes of the opposite i.e. the progressive view.

I understand the USA is a special case as here there is still historical peculiar distrust by the more 'colonised' states of the intellectual east coast.We see a picture of this effect when we look at the map with coloured-in red and blue states. However there are other divided societies around the world. How does libertarianism take root in hearts and minds?

[Skepdick]

It's not only in America we find individuals with the generally- regressive world view . I would like to know the social causes of the generally-regressive world view, and also the causes of the opposite i.e. the progressive view.

It's human nature. We have evolved to conserve energy, so we conserve it when it comes to thinking. Groupthink is less taxing.

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler --Albert Einstein
Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations --John von Neumann

There is a tension between the above two views. Our desire for simplicity is in direct conflict with the complexity of truth.

[henry quirk]

Commentary...

Henry Q, Walker and Immanuel Can share the same world view which includes love for Mr Trump and disdain for Greta Thunberg, and other attributes of the same cluster of ideas that includes e.g.private ownership of guns , and suchlike.

I wonder to what extent this particular world view (I don't know what to call this world view without sounding prejudiced) this particular world view as propounded by Henry, Walker, and Immanuel has caused its supporters to believe as they do, or whether individuals who believe as they do caused the world view.

It's not only in America we find individuals with the generally- regressive world view . I would like to know the social causes of the generally-regressive world view, and also the causes of the opposite i.e. the progressive view.

I understand the USA is a special case as here there is still historical peculiar distrust by the more 'colonised' states of the intellectual east coast.We see a picture of this effect when we look at the map with coloured-in red and blue states. However there are other divided societies around the world. How does libertarianism take root in hearts and minds?

...sayin' way more about the commentator than it does her targets.

[Skepdick]

...that sez way more about the commentator than it does her targets.

Nah. It goes both ways.

[henry quirk]

...that sez way more about the commentator than it does her targets.

Nah. It goes both ways.

how so?

[Walker]

(I don't know what to call this world view without sounding prejudiced)

The view is stoicism, which is not to say stoicism correlates with your characterizations.

The Greta trip is just an emotional ride of self-supporting circular reasoning bobbing up and down, round and around to the sound of a media calliope on the supposition merry-go-round …

an excursion of bias, delusion, short-sightedness and fantasy that is not particularly appealing to Adult Perspective Stoicism (APS) ...

APS being a perspective unshackled from attachment to the characteristic prison (passion) of the human realm, co-arising with a freedom which is neither swayed, captivated, nor enslaved by the propaganda of alarmism be it climate, corona, or promises of doom.

Greta’s mom in a Frozen power pose

And Greta's papa is an actor, likely her drama coach.

"How dare you!"

[Walker]

Speakin' of schoolboys: what happened to that lil shit, David Hogg? Same thing that's gonna happen to Greta, I imagine.

These climate activists...they're so messed up.

They advocate things like a city system of diesel trucks to pick up balloons of air (bottles), and then can only recycle 1/4 of them, so send the other 3/4 off to the landfill in another diesel truck. And they advocate for windmills, which are murder on birds, to generate electricity that is surplus. They drive electric automobiles that due to their batteries, tires and manufacture, actually have a larger carbon footprint than the gas ones. They buy electronics that rely on heavy metals poisonous to the environment and impossible to recycle sustainably. And they won't talk about China (which produces at least a third of the world's carbon footprint, currently, or India, which is poised to compete with it) or the Middle East, where much of the oil is produced, but want to score points in Canada, the UK or Sweden, where the problem can't really be solved.

And they use mentally-ill teenagers to do their work, because really, only a mentally-ill teenager would believe their nonsense.

IF human beings have a role in climate change, there is but one way it will be addressed: reduced consumption. Period. But nobody talks about that, because we all want to keep buying stuff, while pretending we're all fixing the environment at the same time.

I've said this before: but manifestly, no conversation about alleged human-caused climate change that does not begin with the words, "China and India" is even serious.

This is a great explanation of the way things are.

Speaking of landfills, picking through garbage at the recycling plant is one of those jobs Americans won't do so the PC quietly bury the evidence with no media reports.

[Walker]

Re: characteristic prison (passion)

“Passion is the major occupation in the human realm. Passion in this sense is an intelligent kind of grasping in which the logical reasoning mind is always geared toward the creation of happiness. There is an acute sense of the separateness of pleasurable objects from the expriencer resulting in a sense of loss, poverty, often accompanied by nostalgia.”
- Trungpa Rinpoche
The Myth of Freedom, Styles of Imprisonment

[Belinda]

Skepdick wrote:

There is a tension between the above two views. Our desire for simplicity is in direct conflict with the complexity of truth.

I desire simplicity too. I know this as when I introspect I find myself biased towards views like my own. Consequently I like to be challenged by someone competent to do so.

[Immanuel Can]

Commentary...

Henry Q, Walker and Immanuel Can share the same world view which includes love for Mr Trump and disdain for Greta Thunberg, and other attributes of the same cluster of ideas that includes e.g.private ownership of guns , and suchlike.

You forget, Belinda: I'm not American. I have no stake in Mr. Trump. But he is by far the most entertaining thing that's come along in American politics in a long while, and it's pretty obvious that so far he's succeeding wildly beyond expectations...including my own. As for Greta, I have no distain for her...she's a victim of abusive parents and exploitations of the media. She's a little kid. Who could despise a little kid?

And guns? Well, I'm not even sure what that has to do with anything, either way. I note that Mr. Biden has run into some horrible PR over his mishandling of a question on that subject -- the questioner quite rightly pointed out that handguns, not rifles, are the major problem, and Biden couldn't even remember what his own point should have been. But that's nothing to do with anything, really.

How does libertarianism take root in hearts and minds?

How does liberty take root in hearts and minds? That should be your question. Libertarianism is only one attempt to maximize freedom. There are other such ideologies. But Progressivism isn't one of them. It trades liberty for security, or for its own conception of "justice," which invariably involves penalizing some, and taking away their liberties, in order to minister various paltry privileges to the masses, with paternalistic disdain.

[henry quirk]

How does liberty take root in hearts and minds?

It doesn't have to cuz it's already there. A body comes into this world with (as) a free will. That ownness is intrinsic. That's why tyrants have to work so hard to keep a boot on people's necks (or to keep them distracted and off-kilter). It's unnatural to live as slave.