Hell

[bahman]

What is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?

A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.

You know this place exists, how?

Where is it?

Regards
DL

I know Satan. I have seen Him several times. I have tremendous amount of spiritual experiences. I had a vision Him in His chamber guarded by Draculas... Where is Hell? The reality has infinite folds. We are living in one of them.

[Lacewing]

one of the assumptions and beliefs that I see you have are that you assume and/or believe that I am claiming, or want to claim, that i personally know what the actual Truth of things is.

So you claim "there is only one actual reality", yet you don't know what it is? Is that correct?

[Lacewing]

I know Satan. I have seen Him several times. I have tremendous amount of spiritual experiences. I had a vision Him in His chamber guarded by Draculas... Where is Hell? The reality has infinite folds. We are living in one of them.

So, do you know that what YOU "experience" and visualize (what is "true" for you), is not true for everyone else? This may very well be YOUR reality, but doesn't it appear that we all have different realities?

To make claims about satan, draculas, and hell as if such things exist Universally would seem to be an attempt to rationalize one's own troubled beliefs: projecting them as some kind of ultimate reality/truth that no one can escape from or be responsible for. Perhaps these ideas and visions represent something interesting for you specifically?

[bahman]

I know Satan. I have seen Him several times. I have tremendous amount of spiritual experiences. I had a vision Him in His chamber guarded by Draculas... Where is Hell? The reality has infinite folds. We are living in one of them.

So, do you know that what YOU "experience" and visualize (what is "true" for you), is not true for everyone else?

True.

This may very well be YOUR reality, but doesn't it appear that we all have different realities?

We are trapped within our realities. They seem different.

To make claims about satan, draculas, and hell as if such things exist Universally would seem to be an attempt to rationalize one's own troubled beliefs: projecting them as some kind of ultimate reality/truth that no one can escape from or be responsible for.

To see the truth is only a matter of time. I thought for a period that I might be a delusional person. But I then realize that there is a fantastic coherence between what I experience. They speak to me as other people speak to me. What they say is rational so to me this could only come out of another rational being, like you, my friends, etc.

Perhaps these ideas and visions represent something interesting for you specifically?

That was the start of a new relationship. I gradually realize what Satan is and why He does things accordingly.

[Lacewing]

We are trapped within our realities. They seem different.

Why do you say we are trapped? What if we are the creators -- and all is perfect?

Why wouldn't a vast Universe of possibilities provide endless and evolving realities?

Where does the need/idea come from that there is ONE Universal reality?

To make claims about satan, draculas, and hell as if such things exist Universally would seem to be an attempt to rationalize one's own troubled beliefs: projecting them as some kind of ultimate reality/truth that no one can escape from or be responsible for.

To see the truth is only a matter of time.

What truth?

I thought for a period that I might be a delusional person. But I then realize that there is a fantastic coherence between what I experience. They speak to me as other people speak to me. What they say is rational so to me this could only come out of another rational being, like you, my friends, etc.

And that is your fantastic experience.

Just as I, or anyone else, has our own fantastic experience. Why should each person perceive their fantastic experience as ultimate truth for all?

That was the start of a new relationship. I gradually realize what Satan is and why He does things accordingly.

And what and why is that? I'm much more interested in the insights that people have from their realities/experiences, than in their claims that their realities are Universal (which never makes any sense).

[bahman]

We are trapped within our realities. They seem different.

Why do you say we are trapped?

Because we have limited power, experience, etc.

What if we are the creators -- and all is perfect?

The truth is that there is no creator/God. I have an argument for that. Perfection is the end, we are moving toward perfection though.

Why wouldn't a vast Universe of possibilities provide endless and evolving realities?

I believe that there is an endless number of universes. But no matter how exciting a universe is at the end is a mere experience.

Where does the need/idea come from that there is ONE Universal reality?

There is one reality, we are interacting mind through the medium of physical. The rest is just the details.

To make claims about satan, draculas, and hell as if such things exist Universally would seem to be an attempt to rationalize one's own troubled beliefs: projecting them as some kind of ultimate reality/truth that no one can escape from or be responsible for.

To see the truth is only a matter of time.

What truth?

What I am telling you. What other people tell, Heaven, Hell, ghosts, Draculas, etc.

I thought for a period that I might be a delusional person. But I then realize that there is a fantastic coherence between what I experience. They speak to me as other people speak to me. What they say is rational so to me this could only come out of another rational being, like you, my friends, etc.

And that is your fantastic experience.

Just as I, or anyone else, has our own fantastic experience. Why should each person perceive their fantastic experience as ultimate truth for all?

We can deduce the ultimate truth from what we experience. There is, however, one absolute truth, absolute truth is a set of indisputable facts about reality like we are interacting minds.

That was the start of a new relationship. I gradually realize what Satan is and why He does things accordingly.

And what and why is that? I'm much more interested in the insights that people have from their realities/experiences, than in their claims that their realities are Universal (which never makes any sense).

The truth is that we are minds. Mind is, however, an eternal entity. Eternity, in the end, becomes dull no matter how fantastic is your experiences. So, we forget then come to this world so everything looks fresh and new to us. So that is what Satan and His gang are doing, manipulating our mind so we have a chance to look for the truth that we know in the depth of our minds, following our temporary needs, etc. simply being busy for a while until everything looks dull for us again. So we are in a cycle, coming from up to down and growing from down to up.

[Greatest I am]

A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.

You know this place exists, how?

Where is it?

Regards
DL

I know Satan. I have seen Him several times. I have tremendous amount of spiritual experiences. I had a vision Him in His chamber guarded by Draculas... Where is Hell? The reality has infinite folds. We are living in one of them.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

You are a poor boy buddy.

Regards
DL

[Lacewing]

We are trapped within our realities. They seem different.

Why do you say we are trapped?

Because we have limited power, experience, etc.

How do you know that's not part of a creative illusion willingly orchestrated? Are you "trapped" if you choose to step onto a stage and act out a play?

What if we are the creators -- and all is perfect?

Perfection is the end, we are moving toward perfection though.

Why wouldn't everything ALREADY be perfect, even if it might not seem so from our limited perspective? Why do you think that perfection is the end? The end of what? There's an "end"??? Why would there be an end?

Please notice how many stories and conditions you are creating.

Why wouldn't a vast Universe of possibilities provide endless and evolving realities?

I believe that there is an endless number of universes. But no matter how exciting a universe is at the end is a mere experience.

ONE experience? Again, what "end"?

Where does the need/idea come from that there is ONE Universal reality?

There is one reality, we are interacting mind through the medium of physical. The rest is just the details.

So you claim. Based on what?

To see the truth is only a matter of time.

What truth?

What I am telling you. What other people tell, Heaven, Hell, ghosts, Draculas, etc.

With all due respect... what "truth" are you telling me? You've made random claims that don't seem to be based on anything other than it's what YOU believe. How is what YOU believe "the truth"? Seriously...do you not see how self-serving and arrogant or desperate it is to claim that YOUR "truth" will be seen in time? Can't you imagine that there are far more fantastic realities than yours... that maybe YOU will come to realize?

We can deduce the ultimate truth from what we experience. There is, however, one absolute truth, absolute truth is a set of indisputable facts about reality like we are interacting minds.

We all experience different things -- so how does that deduce ONE truth?

Perhaps there aren't separate minds at all. Maybe that's an illusion from the human perspective.

The truth is that we are minds.

Your claim, based on your own interpretative experience and all of the beliefs that go with it.

Eternity, in the end, becomes dull no matter how fantastic is your experiences.

How does eternity have an end?

Seriously, are you noticing how you weave these inconsistent and fanciful ideas into a story that pleases yourself? This is a common thing that we humans do, yes? Look at all of the baseless and conflicting stories/realities/truths from humankind!! Why not notice and acknowledge human storytelling instead of piling on more of it? Maybe we could have more clarity and honesty as a result...and what might we create with that? Instead of being trapped or condemned or limited by the stories, we'd be free to see and explore in more ways. And we wouldn't have to wait for an "end".

So that is what Satan and His gang are doing, manipulating our mind...

Do you think this is something separate from you?

[Greatest I am]

That was the start of a new relationship. I gradually realize what Satan is and why He does things accordingly.

The Christian Satan is female, goof. Get your lies straight.

Go look at the Expulsion painting.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

The truth is that we are minds. Mind is, however, an eternal entity. Eternity, in the end, becomes dull no matter how fantastic is your experiences. So, we forget then come to this world so everything looks fresh and new to us. So that is what Satan and His gang are doing, manipulating our mind so we have a chance to look for the truth that we know in the depth of our minds, following our temporary needs, etc. simply being busy for a while until everything looks dull for us again. So we are in a cycle, coming from up to down and growing from down to up.

You have been watching too much Matrix.

If anything supernatural or invisible to us exists, then fractals say that there are many.

You are spouting old Gnostic Christian ideas, that we have scrapped for the reason I put a long time ago.

Regards
DL

[Lacewing]

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

I wonder if Jesus partook of mushrooms?

[bahman]

You know this place exists, how?

Where is it?

Regards
DL

I know Satan. I have seen Him several times. I have tremendous amount of spiritual experiences. I had a vision Him in His chamber guarded by Draculas... Where is Hell? The reality has infinite folds. We are living in one of them.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

You are a poor boy buddy.

Regards
DL

I am a mind. Pure and simple. I know, I have arguments for my proposals in any discussion. I have experienced stuff that leads me to deduce the existence of you and others. The reality is a game between minds. Those who know the rules know how to manipulate you unless you are a member of them. Are you a member of The Highest that imposes laws?

[bahman]

Why do you say we are trapped?

Because we have limited power, experience, etc.

How do you know that's not part of a creative illusion willingly orchestrated? Are you "trapped" if you choose to step onto a stage and act out a play?

I could leave here but I prefer to stay so I could perform a duty.

What if we are the creators -- and all is perfect?

Perfection is the end, we are moving toward perfection though.

Why wouldn't everything ALREADY be perfect, even if it might not seem so from our limited perspective? Why do you think that perfection is the end? The end of what? There's an "end"??? Why would there be an end?

Let me give you an example. Suppose the best-case scenario that everybody is looking for it is defined as perfection. Suppose that you are looking to know everything. What can you do when you know everything and if the only motivation that forces you further is to know more?

Please notice how many stories and conditions you are creating.

I have justification for what I created.

Where does the need/idea come from that there is ONE Universal reality?

There is one reality, we are interacting mind through the medium of physical. The rest is just the details.

So you claim. Based on what?

Based on two arguments: 1) Any change requires mind and 2) The existence of another mind. I would be happy to share them with you.

What truth?

What I am telling you. What other people tell, Heaven, Hell, ghosts, Draculas, etc.

With all due respect... what "truth" are you telling me? You've made random claims that don't seem to be based on anything other than it's what YOU believe. How is what YOU believe "the truth"? Seriously...do you not see how self-serving and arrogant or desperate it is to claim that YOUR "truth" will be seen in time? Can't you imagine that there are far more fantastic realities than yours... that maybe YOU will come to realize?

Of course, there are fantastic realities that I am not observing them right now. What are your experiences?

We can deduce the ultimate truth from what we experience. There is, however, one absolute truth, absolute truth is a set of indisputable facts about reality like we are interacting minds.

We all experience different things -- so how does that deduce ONE truth?

We are able to reach the truth through exchanging and creating thoughts.

Perhaps there aren't separate minds at all. Maybe that's an illusion from the human perspective.

I have an argument against that. There is at least one mind more than yours since there are changes that your mind is not responsible for it.

The truth is that we are minds.

Your claim, based on your own interpretative experience and all of the beliefs that go with it.

There is only this interpretation which is consistent.

Eternity, in the end, becomes dull no matter how fantastic is your experiences.

How does eternity have an end?

Seriously, are you noticing how you weave these inconsistent and fanciful ideas into a story that pleases yourself? This is a common thing that we humans do, yes? Look at all of the baseless and conflicting stories/realities/truths from humankind!! Why not notice and acknowledge human storytelling instead of piling on more of it? Maybe we could have more clarity and honesty as a result...and what might we create with that? Instead of being trapped or condemned or limited by the stories, we'd be free to see and explore in more ways. And we wouldn't have to wait for an "end".

You won't be looking for to know more when you know everything. Time is endless. The truth is plain and simple. You don't need eternity to know it.

So that is what Satan and His gang are doing, manipulating our mind...

Do you think this is something separate from you?

Sure it. Just look, there are different religions each claiming that they have the truth yet they are conflicting with each other. That just could be due to the intervention of Satan.

[bahman]

That was the start of a new relationship. I gradually realize what Satan is and why He does things accordingly.

The Christian Satan is female, goof. Get your lies straight.

Go look at the Expulsion painting.

Regards
DL

He is an It, a mind, like me and you. He can change Its appearence to Male or Female. I have seen It mostly Male rather than Female.

[bahman]

The truth is that we are minds. Mind is, however, an eternal entity. Eternity, in the end, becomes dull no matter how fantastic is your experiences. So, we forget then come to this world so everything looks fresh and new to us. So that is what Satan and His gang are doing, manipulating our mind so we have a chance to look for the truth that we know in the depth of our minds, following our temporary needs, etc. simply being busy for a while until everything looks dull for us again. So we are in a cycle, coming from up to down and growing from down to up.

You have been watching too much Matrix.

If anything supernatural or invisible to us exists, then fractals say that there are many.

They are infinite number of minds.

You are spouting old Gnostic Christian ideas, that we have scrapped for the reason I put a long time ago.

Regards
DL

I didn't know that my idea is along that line. What is your reason for scrapping this idea?