ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

[henry quirk]

Is it mutable?

Examples, please.

[Immanuel Can]

Well, we disagree. No surprise there. I believe in rationality, and you believe in...?

I believe in rationality too. We just define the criteria for "rationality" differently.

By my criteria you aren't rational, and I sure prefer my definition to yours.

Yep, I believe that.

I can also see that you have no answer at all for people suffering with body dysphoria. You don't even acknowledge the categories that would make any sense of their situation.

So I think I'll stick with regular rationality, thank you very much.

[Skepdick]

Is it mutable?

Examples, please.

You never changed the state of ANYTHING in the world?

Shit, Harry! How are you. using that computer of yours if the keyboard won't budge!?!?

[henry quirk]

Is it mutable?

Examples, please.

You never changed the state of ANYTHING in the world?

Shit, Harry! How are you. using that computer of yours if the keyboard won't budge!?!?

I move stuff around, put it together, take it apart; I never change what is real, never rejigger what is fundamental

You said reality itself is mutable: I want an example.

[Skepdick]

Yep, I believe that.

I can also see that you have no answer at all for people suffering with body dysphoria. You don't even acknowledge the categories that would make any sense of their situation.

So I think I'll stick with regular rationality, thank you very much.

People suffering don't want answers. They don't want to 'make sense' of the situation.

They want to improve their situation.

The solution is always change - mutability.

[Skepdick]

I move stuff around, put it together, take it apart; I never change what is real, never rejigger what is fundamental

You said reality itself is mutable: I want an example.

You just provided the example, Harry!

If reality was immutable you wouldn't be able to "take stuff apart, put it together".
If reality was immutable you wouldn't be able to change anything!

You wouldn't be a free will. You would be a no-will.

You have no idea what is fundamental. Physicists do.

And what is fundamental is mutable by observation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Yep, I believe that.

I can also see that you have no answer at all for people suffering with body dysphoria. You don't even acknowledge the categories that would make any sense of their situation.

So I think I'll stick with regular rationality, thank you very much.

People suffering don't want answers. They don't want to 'make sense' of the situation.

They want to improve their situation.

The solution is always change - mutability.

You are well named. American bad spelling plus an apt description.

[Skepdick]

You are well named. American bad spelling plus an apt description.

Thank you.

Naming things aptly is considered a hard problem in computer science.

[henry quirk]

If reality was immutable you wouldn't be able to "take stuff apart, put it together

No. I play with the stuff, not the box.

Reality is not mutable.


You have no idea what is fundamental.

Sure I do: maleness, femaleness, there's two right there.


Physicists do.

Sure, that's why they all agree...


And what is fundamental is mutable by observation.

Oh, you're one of those...

Sorry, but that's bullshit. Measurement in itself doesn't change diddly. There's no wave function to collapse.

But, that's another discussion for another (more marshy) thread. Here, I'm stickin' to dry land, that bein', in context...


A man can pretend to be a woman, may believe he is a woman, make go to great lengths to emulate the appearance of a woman, but a man cannot become a woman.

...and...

No one is obligated (except as he chooses for himself) to participate in another's disorders and delusions.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

You are well named. American bad spelling plus an apt description.

Thank you.

Naming things aptly is considered a hard problem in computer science.

You are a nutter with a superiority complex and nothing else. Never mind. The majority of people writing on here are nutters.

[Immanuel Can]

Yep, I believe that.

I can also see that you have no answer at all for people suffering with body dysphoria. You don't even acknowledge the categories that would make any sense of their situation.

So I think I'll stick with regular rationality, thank you very much.

People suffering don't want answers. They don't want to 'make sense' of the situation.

They want to improve their situation.

You need categories for all that, and you deny there are any in reality. You can't even find "people suffering," because that's a category. And "improving" means "getting better," which presumes categories of "better" and "worse" in the situations you can't even define as a "situation," because that too requires a category.

But in point of truth, the very first thing suffering people want is to make sense of their situation. In many cases, they desire that even more urgently than the solution -- the one you can't offer, because you can't even define the problem. Heck, you can't even define a situation as a problematic situation, unless you make sense of it.

So I think your "no categories" axiom is arrant nonsense. Even you, in your own assessments expressed here, are not adhering to it.

[Skepdick]

You need categories for all that, and you deny there are any in reality. You can't even find "people suffering," because that's a category. And "improving" means "getting better," which presumes categories of "better" and "worse" in the situations you can't even define as a "situation," because that too requires a category.

But in point of truth, the very first thing suffering people want is to make sense of their situation. In many cases, they desire that even more urgently than the solution -- the one you can't offer, because you can't even define the problem. Heck, you can't even define a situation as a problematic situation, unless you make sense of it.

So I think your "no categories" axiom is arrant nonsense. Even you, in your own assessments expressed here, are not adhering to it.

Yeeeep. This "start with the problem and work backwards" mindset.
This "man is the measure of all things" mindset.
This "suspend judgment, collect information, suspend choosing a taxonomy" mindset.

You don't have it...

Go ahead and define "problem" and "not problem" see if you can. Mr Categorical thinker.

Lets see across which axis you draw the line across.

The Serenity prayer is ALL about mutability!

[Immanuel Can]

Go ahead and define "problem" and "not problem" see if you can. Mr Categorical thinker.

Heh. It was you who raised the issue of "suffering people" as a problem, so it's you -- without reference to categories, mind you -- that needs to define why you think it's a problem. If you didn't mean suffering of people was a problem, then what did you mean by raising it?

A minute or two ago, you were treating trans-wanters who didn't have bathrooms as if it was a problem. Now you're saying it's not, because "problem" is a category, and you don't believe in those things?

You can't even keep faith with yourself. How are you suppose you could possibly convince anyone of anything? You don't even believe in the categories "wrong" and "right."

[Skepdick]

Go ahead and define "problem" and "not problem" see if you can. Mr Categorical thinker.

Heh. It was you who raised the issue of "suffering people" as a problem, so it's you -- without reference to categories, mind you -- that needs to define why you think it's a problem. If you didn't mean suffering of people was a problem, then what did you mean by raising it?

A minute or two ago, you were treating trans-wanters who didn't have bathrooms as if it was a problem. Now you're saying it's not, because "problem" is a category, and you don't believe in those things?

You can't even keep faith with yourself. How are you suppose you could possibly convince anyone of anything? You don't even believe in the categories "wrong" and "right."

I can't convince anybody of anything - you have free will.

The choice to mutate your mind is yours.

But you don't believe in mutability. So I guess I am wasting my time.

[Immanuel Can]

But you don't believe in mutability. So I guess I am wasting my time.

Ah. I see.

This conversation fits into the category "things that waste time" -- in which you do not believe. Just like the category "mutable things," -- in which you must also not believe.