Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:13 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:32 pm
And we have discovered your own emotive justification to ask this odd question!
Who is the 'we', and what do you propose 'you' and 'them' have discovered? What do you think or believe is my own 'emotive justification' is exactly.
I asked you that to you "odd" question because I wanted to know if you did or did not accept that aboriginal children had been forcibly taken away? Considering the topic of this discussion it seems like a very relevant question to me, especially considering the actual words you have used in this discussion so far.
The who is 'we' or 'you' seems alright for you to use above [underlined] without me thinking nor confusing you as meaning that your point is shared by all. So I know that you understand how context isn't asserting any particular 'we' that you think I'm ganging up against you here. The use of 'we' is to anyone reading here ABLE to interpret your bias and is what the content of the enlargened content I emphasized above. That is, the content of accusing me of some "sort of RACIST REACTION" is your emotive interpretation, not something I imagined.
I am still NO clearer of who the 'we' is that HAS, supposedly, discovered my own, supposed, "emotive justification" to ask that, supposedly, "odd" question. But you do NOT have to answer and clear that up if you so wish not to.
Well considering you have ALREADY made a 'racist reaction' I am not sure what you mean by "accusing you" of some racist reaction. If you have done some thing already, then you have done it. If I observe a 'racist reaction', then that is obviously the interpretation I got and have. Also, there was no need for the "emotive" word, as NO emotion was involved. I was just expressing a view of what I observed happen. Every one of 'you', adult human beings, are racist, so I am not sure why 'emotions' should come into this obvious FACT.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:32 pmWhat does it mean to "
accept that native children have been forcibly taken away" in context to what I stated?
It does not matter what it means to accept one way or another. Considering what you wrote I was just wondering if you did or did not accept that native children have been forcibly taken away? Your refusal to answer speaks for itself.
No, my content clearly specified my disagreement of native children being 'taken' (derogatorily) and your interest in asking it when it was already understood by my stance against the accusation is intended to rhetorically imply that I am merely not 'accepting' that they were 'taken' (derogatorily) as a matter of fact .
Well, to me, you are only muddying things more now, and not clearing any thing up here.
How could a child now get 'taken' (derogatorily) away from its parents and/or culture?
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmThe term in context to the accusation of cultural genocide is that white people kidnapped the children -- as such would be a derogatory meaning of 'taken' rather than the mere neutral meaning of what is 'taken'.
If a person from a perceived different culture obviously takes away a child from its parents of a perceived "other" culture, then the mere neutral meaning of 'taken' STILL APPLIES. If some thing is 'taken', and it had to be 'forcibly' be done, which obviously it would in just about EVERY case, if not EVERY case, then that can very easily be classed as, and as such mean, 'kidnapped'.
Obviously if a child is 'taken' from its parents unwillingly, then that is 'kidnap'.
If thee Truth of things is 'derogatory', then the Truth IS 'derogatory'. Nothing you can 'try' will lessen this impact.
What is it that you are so terrified of, that you appear so determined to 'try to' minimize and/or justify the actions of obviously 'forced' removal of children from their parents, and/or culture?
Does it have some thing to do with very own adoption, and what that means/meant to you?
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmIt would be like I offered you money and then later told others that you '"took money" from me, which, while technically true, it implies you stole it.
You telling lies does NOT imply I stole any thing. You telling lies does not just imply but actually MEANS you are lying.
By the way, having your child/ren STOLEN from you is NOTHING like your example just given, in many varying ways.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmIt is obvious that if I gave you money and you
accepted it, you 'took' it from me.
Yes that is very true. That is; I TOOK the money that you GAVE me, which is VERY DIFFERENT from I TOOK the money that you did NOT give me.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmBut without the context, the asserting of 'taking' money from me absent of the understanding of me 'giving' voluntarily would imply you stole it. The same goes with your question and the to the concern of the accusations of white people 'taking' their children.
But when did native people's EVER voluntarily 'give up' their own children?
If there are few cases of this happening, then that is WHEN that happened. But out of ALL of the other cases, then this 'giving voluntarily' there own children did NOT happen. Therefore, these children were forcibly 'taken' and STOLEN and under horrendous conditions.
This REALLY is NOT that hard to ACCEPT and UNDERSTAND.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:32 pmThis is a question of fact of which no one can know without actual evidence and of which I already mentioned is NOT provided.
Well the evidence is there, but if you see or not just depends on if you want to look at it, and see it, or not.
Okay, now you are positing that Natives were 'taken' (with the implicit derogatory meaning of 'stolen' or 'kidnapped').
You can call it 'derogatory' if you like, or not, either way it does not add to nor lessen what thee actual Truth IS.
Also remember, and noted, is you, by your own "self", added the 'derogatory' word and meaning here. No one else had, and that word and its meaning has never even been discussed. Remember how concerned you were before that the meaning of the words 'culture' and 'genocide' had not been talked about and discussed, but now you seem quite happy to add your own words, with your meanings, whenever you like.
Also, what you do mean 'now' I am positing ... My view has NOT changed, yet anyway, throughout this discussion from the outset.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmThus, now the onus is on you to provide such evidence. See, ...I knew what you were getting at by your rhetorical question.
But you could NOT have known what I was "getting at" by my "rhetorical" question, because I did NOT ask a 'rhetorical' question. I asked Truly OPEN clarifying questions because I did NOT know what your view was and because I was NOT assuming any thing at all.
If you thought taking all this time, through all the words we have used, to just to the point of 'you' wanting 'me' to provide evidence for some thing, then this could have already been done and settled way before now. If you just asked me in the beginning what my view was, then I would have told you, and then you could have just told us that the ONUS IS ON ME to provide evidence. This would have saved a lot.
Now, if you did NOT want the ONUS ON YOU to provide evidence, mostly because you have absolutely NO evidence at all provide, otherwise, if you did you would have already put it forward, then I will provide evidence.
You just have to inform me and us what do you want evidence for exactly?
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmAnd you just provided the proof of your deception.
What is this in relation to exactly?
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm Please provide the evidence of the crimes of Native children kidnapped.
When ANY child is taken from their parents, when the parents do NOT want them taken, then that is what is called 'kidnapped'.
Kidnapping is a crime.
You told us that children were taken from their parents.
Therefore, that is the evidence of the crimes of (native) children kidnapped.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmAnd ask yourself what interest you think the adoptees had in mind?
Firstly, I am NOT going to ask "myself" a ridiculous question like this.
Second, what 'adoptees' are you talking about?
Third, I have NO idea what ALL adoptees were thinking at a particular time.
IF 'adoptee' means the child. I do NOT even know what one of them was thinking at the very exact moment of being 'given' or 'taken' away. Some are a day old for God's sake.
Children do NOT usually think about interest when they are being 'stolen'. They usually just want what they want at that moment. What they usually do NOT want is to be separated from the ones that Truly love them.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm What value is it for parental adoptees to desire Native children against the will of the parents?
Are 'you', by any chance, of aboriginal descent, was 'taken' or 'given' away at a very young age and were adopted out to another culture's family?
What does the word 'adoptee' even mean? Who is thee 'adoptee', and who is the 'parental adoptee'?
Now, what value is it for a person who desires to adopt a native child against the will of that child's parents, then there is absolutely NO value other than utter and pure greed and selfishness of that person.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmGiven this was a derogatory act as assumed, what function does it serve to adopt and take on the burden of raising other people's children of a class of people they presumed were less than themselves?
A lot of assumptions going on here, which detracts from the actual Truth of things.
The people who worked for the governments 'took' children from their parents, for whatever reason they so chose, now, if they did not want to kill these children, then they had to do some thing with them. One of the ways that was decided to do with these 'taken' children was to put them up for adoption. Contrary to your presumption, some people did NOT see these children as "less than themselves" and wanted to take care of them, "the best they could", as they say.
Maybe you are confused, are you aware that absolutely EVERY one thinks differently? Therefore, there is NO one reason for ALL people in particular situations like this.
Also, what kind of 'human being' thinks some are "less than another". Some might even be considering and wondering if the 'human being' who thinks this way is actually a 'human being' at all?
Are you joking?
Are you really under some sort of illusion that ALL people who adopted 'native children' wanted them or could have wanted them for slavery?
OF COURSE some might have wanted them for this, and OF COURSE some would have used them this way, but FOR ALL to think this way is just ABSURD.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm Did they think of them as cute pets to adore?
Again, what is with the 'trying to' squeeze and put THEM into the one category?
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmThese can and do exist.
OF COURSE. This behavior can be seen in lots of places. In fact it is famously advertised, and presented, on screens, how the rich and famous find things cute and adorable and buy them up, through "adoption".
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmBut would the intention of adoption where legal be criminal?
How could ANY thing, which is 'legal' be 'criminal'?
And if so, why are none of these criminals being charged?
I do NOT even know what you are on about now.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:32 pmThe fact that you opted to ask this is begging of some meaning that I clearly asserted was NOT proven to be determined.
I do not understand this.
I asserted that the accusations regarding cultural genocide are untrue of the general population outside of particular government preferences to hand them over to religious organizations to manage. The charges of abuses, however possible, are (1) not backed by actual charges against particular people NOR the religious organizations and (2) if true, it would imply a massive conspiracy of people in which many numbers of people should be everywhere. We live in a time here in Canada where actual people are being accused openly regardless of any assumption of innocence on many areas. But it is absent in the actual cases of the supposed systematic abuses by invisible perpetrators.
Assert all you want.
Obviously people's of varying countries have been 'taking' the children, and the land, of "other" cultures, which has obviously decimated those cultures, which in essence is 'cultural genocide'. How could anyone not see this or assert that it is not true.
Absolutely EVERY 'culture' of absolutely EVERY thing eventually gets 'taken' over and decimated. This is HOW the Universe keeps turning over, changing, or evolving.
What is WRONG with the Truth?
We can either LOOK AT the Truth of things, and discuss the It. Or, we can 'try' to ignore the Truth, and/or 'try to' assert that the Truth of things does NOT happen.
Honestly, I much prefer the former one.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmSo, if you believe the charges true, who particularly are the guilty. Is there a list?
I neither believe or disbelieve any thing.
Besides that I do not even know what the charges are, and I have absolutely NO interest in laying blame nor in charging particular people for particular things. I much prefer to just LOOK AT and concentrate on the WHOLE overall picture of things. That way I do NOT get bogged down in absolutely totally unnecessary "stuff".
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmWhat you
may be unaware of is that our Supreme Court literally prevented the exposure of the potential guilty parties due to a protection of the churches involved, ...similar to how the Catholic Churches have prevented access to internal knowledge of abuses by priests. Because here the Catholic Church and all other 'friendly' assignments to other Christian churces under their oversight is Constitutionally protected, the decision to quickly settle in a 'final' agreement was intentionally decided politically to transfer any burden over to the taxpayer rather than the potential guilty parties....where they existed. Because they didn't WANT the exposure, they agreed to pay off all Natives without actual charges if they agreed NOT to say who specifically abused them. They were granted a right to speak publically about the abuses (minus particular names of particular abuses) as part of the acceptance of the money benefits offered. All that any Native required to get this money was to assert they have gone to one of these schools (for the Residential School cases) or that they were adopted to white families.
For your information I was totally UNAWARE, and totally DISINTERESTED.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmPLEASE provide the evidence you think justifies ACTUAL abuses universally existent if you doubt me on this. It shouldn't be hard given the numbers, right?
The way you write I REALLY and TRULY can NOT follow you and do NOT even know what you talk about, most of the time.
For example IF there is ACTUAL abuses, then NO evidence is NEEDED. Therefore, I would NOT have to provide the evidence I think justifies such things.
I have NO idea what 'universally existent' means. I do NOT know what I would "doubt you on" exactly. I do NOT even know what you are talking about, let alone to doubt you about.
I have NO idea what "numbers" are in relation to, nor what should or should not be "hard" is in relation to either.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmAnd then let's get to your own underlying opinion about whether "cultural genocide" is a reality.
If you want to get to my own "underlying" opinion about whether 'cultural genocide' is a reality or not, then just tell me what does 'cultural genocide' mean.
I have already given my view on what forcibly 'taking' of the children of one culture, and what the 'taking' of those up and coming future adults would do to that culture
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmWe (general 'we') can already gamble that genocides have occurred and that many would like to crush certain common behaviors called, 'culture'.
Like for what example?
What are some of the certain common behaviors, which you call 'culture', would you like to 'crush'?
By the way, when a lot of the common behaviors, or the current 'culture', of 'you', human beings, in the times of when this is written, are self-eradicated and crushed once and for all for good will have a tremendously great impact on the land called 'earth', and for ALL those earthlings.
One of those common behaviors that would be great to crush and self-eliminate for good would be the one where each 'culture' LOOKS AT the "other" as though their behaviors are WRONG and BAD but neglect to LOOK AT what they, "themselves", are doing which is WRONG and BAD itself.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm But the accusation of "cultural genocide" is like what people might collectively opt to destroy of derogatory behaviors, like rape, given many consider this a 'culture' too.
And you KNOW of how many 'cultures' that say "rape is a part of 'our' culture"?
Maybe if you were to STOP with the judging of "others" and START LOOKING AT this from not just a 'me' and 'my opinions are good and right' perspective and LOOKING AT things from a Truly OPEN and OVERALL perspective instead. For example you could START LOOKING AT WHY 'you' adult human beings WANT to have sex in the first place, instead of judging 'rape', and work out WHY you WANT sex when you do NOT want to make more human beings. This is best done by LOOKING AT the WRONG that one's "self" does FIRST, and discovering WHY 'you' are the way 'you ARE'. Once 'you' workout WHY 'you' do ALL the WRONG that you do DO, then you will have worked out WHY ALL people do the WRONG that they DO, then 'you' help partake in STOPPING ALL the WRONG, by PREVENTING WRONG, like rape, from EVER happening again to ANY one, which coincidentally happens in EVERY culture.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmBut in context to a 'cultural genocide" the implication is that some race of people are assumed to intrinsically
own some environmental behavior simply for being of that race and that others want to destroy the behavior due to a hatred of the particular people assumed to have proprietary rights to claim the behavior.
You, human beings, can IMPLY any thing about any one, but that will NEVER make it to be thee Truth.
There are so many DIFFERENT VARIABLES in what you just said to LOOKED AT and discuss that a whole new thread could be made just for this one paragraph.
Keeping LOOKING AT what is IMPLIED and/or NOT IMPLIED if you WANT. I prefer to just keep LOOKING AT
what IS thee actual Truth of things instead.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pmDo you think that if one has Native genetics who is adopted to a white family have some internal 'culture' assigned to do Pow Wows or have some intrinsic closer connection to plants and animals and the Earth over non-Natives and that such white families raising such children are abusing them for NOT having this known and taught to them?
Is there a human being that does NO have native genetics?
If yes, then WHO?
Also, and very contrary to popular belief, there is absolutely NO such thing as an accurate description or definition 'white' in regards to human beings.
By the way, what do you think your hatred or dislike of all of this here has come from?
Could it be because:
You were adopted?
You were 'taken'?
You were 'given'?
You were a 'native child' and 'taken'?
You were a 'native child' and 'given'?
You were not given compensation but others were.
You feel like you missed out on some thing.
You do not like paying taxes and do not like seeing that money 'taken' from you, 'given' to others?
What is it with this issue that 'you' REALLY do NOT like?