I'm a Theist

[attofishpi]

Look, far be it from me to be an asshole, but you really need to understand the difference between mans evil and Gods evil.

If God were evil, atto, or if He did evil, then there simply would be no such thing as evil. In fact, then what you call evil is then "good," for it would describe the purposes for which the Supreme Being who created the universe created it, and it would be consonant with his character. There would be no larger or prior set of criteria to which any of us could refer that would give us a basis for identifying anything as "evil."

The Gnostics figured that out. That's why they had to suppose the existence of a secondary creator-god who was smaller than their absolute "god," and below him by a whole hierarchy of "beings." They called him "the Demiurge." That way, they could say that "evil," such as might exist, was the fault of the Demiurge. If it were the fault of the ultimate god, they knew, evil itself would cease to have any meaning.

Would that be your position, then? Or do you think the Gnostics were nuts?

I'm not going to waste further time with you if you don't listen intently to what I have to say. I am not an apprentice to a sage.

IC stated:- "If God were evil, atto, or if He did evil, then there simply would be no such thing as evil. In fact, then what you call evil is then "good,""

Fair enough. So you understand that for an individual to experience the wrath of God - indeed the evil of God, then there must be fair reason?

DO u understand - that God CAN do evil?

[bahman]

The black field is not nothing.

Right.

Your last sentence also makes no sense to me because I can imagine nothing.

I think you're probably wrong about that. But even if you weren't, you couldn't communicate your "nothing" vision to me or to anyone else, because there's nothing to communicate there.

Think of an apple on a table. I take and eat it. I eat the table too. What is left is space. I sallow that too. Therefore, there is no thing.

[Immanuel Can]

God CAN do evil?

By definition, no.

If there is a Supreme Being, then there is, by definition, no standard above Him by which we would be able to justify such a claim.

[bahman]

Look, far be it from me to be an asshole, but you really need to understand the difference between mans evil and Gods evil.

If God were evil, atto, or if He did evil, then there simply would be no such thing as evil. In fact, then what you call evil is then "good," for it would describe the purposes for which the Supreme Being who created the universe created it, and it would be consonant with his character. There would be no larger or prior set of criteria to which any of us could refer that would give us a basis for identifying anything as "evil."

The Gnostics figured that out. That's why they had to suppose the existence of a secondary creator-god who was smaller than their absolute "god," and below him by a whole hierarchy of "beings." They called him "the Demiurge." That way, they could say that "evil," such as might exist, was the fault of the Demiurge. If it were the fault of the ultimate god, they knew, evil itself would cease to have any meaning.

Would that be your position, then? Or do you think the Gnostics were nuts?

I'm not going to waste further time with you if you don't listen intently to what I have to say. I am not an apprentice to a sage.

IC stated:- "If God were evil, atto, or if He did evil, then there simply would be no such thing as evil. In fact, then what you call evil is then "good,""

Fair enough. So you understand that for an individual to experience the wrath of God - indeed the evil of God, then there must be fair reason?

DO u understand - that God CAN do evil?

He needs to reflect on reality to see that God does evil too.

[Immanuel Can]

The black field is not nothing.

Right.

Your last sentence also makes no sense to me because I can imagine nothing.

I think you're probably wrong about that. But even if you weren't, you couldn't communicate your "nothing" vision to me or to anyone else, because there's nothing to communicate there.

Think of an apple on a table. I take and eat it. I eat the table too. What is left is space. I sallow that too. Therefore, there is no thing.

You're still imagining a "you" to do that. Moreover, you're imagining a set of objects of which the removal is necessary. In other words, you're having to imagine a bunch of "things" and manipulate their relations to each other, in order to speak of "nothing."

All of that means you're employing "things" in an effort to get to "nothing." And you can't find a way to speak of it without doing some such operation, obviously. Which, no doubt, you will find frustrating. But really, that's the whole problem: there's no pure vision of "nothing," no way to visualize or communicate the idea of something that has no qualities.

[Immanuel Can]

He needs to reflect on reality to see that God does evil too.

"Evil" as defined from what perspective, B?

[henry quirk]

"When I was talking of 'space' I was meaning the entire space of the universe and its contents. Does that change your mind in any way?"

No. I see Reality/the universe/space as a big, mostly empty, box with a finite number of discrete entities inside of it.

Not seein' the need for space to be binary\digital.

[attofishpi]

God CAN do evil?

By definition, no.

If there is a Supreme Being, then there is, by definition, no standard above Him by which we would be able to justify such a claim.

Oh. Owe.

HELL_o

Who was it that suggested he would condemn us to eternal torture in the furnace of hell?

[Immanuel Can]

Who was it that suggested he would condemn us to eternal torture in the furnace of hell?

You've been speaking to too many Catholics. They not only have your "Hell," but an additional bit of nastiness known as "Purgatory," which also has flames and demons with pitchforks in it.

But it's not Biblical. The Bible speaks of Hell as "separation from God." That's not a thing that God intends, not something He prefers for us, and not the reason He created us. But He also saw great value in us being free beings, who can choose what we want. And relationships cannot be forced.

So separation from God is a thing which some of his creatures are choosing of their own free will. That's the bad side of free will: it can be used for good, but it can be used for evil as well. That's what makes it "free."

But now, if free beings are freely choosing not to relate to God, who's to blame for that?

[henry quirk]

"I'm just as bewildered as anyone."

I guess I should be too, but I find livin' in the world doesn't require a comprehensive understanding of the undergirding of the world, so I'm not.

If, for example, we discover the whole of everything we call Reality is just a dollop of cream cheese smeared on God's bagel, I'll be awfully surprised, will experience five minutes of existential terror, then just get on with it (living).

[attofishpi]

"When I was talking of 'space' I was meaning the entire space of the universe and its contents. Does that change your mind in any way?"

No. I see Reality/the universe/space as a big, mostly empty, box with a finite number of discrete entities inside of it.

Not seein' the need for space to be binary\digital.

Fuck Henry - I just typed a really detailed message to you - but i pressed the wrong FUCKING KEY!!! and BOOM!! it ALL went off by way of kansas..

..will post in the morning ...woops sorry mate.

[attofishpi]

Who was it that suggested he would condemn us to eternal torture in the furnace of hell?

You've been speaking to too many Catholics. They not only have your "Hell," but an additional bit of nastiness known as "Purgatory," which also has flames and demons with pitchforks in it.

But it's not Biblical. The Bible speaks of Hell as "separation from God." That's not a thing that God intends, not something He prefers for us, and not the reason He created us. But He also saw great value in us being free beings, who can choose what we want. And relationships cannot be forced.

So separation from God is a thing which some of his creatures are choosing of their own free will. That's the bad side of free will: it can be used for good, but it can be used for evil as well. That's what makes it "free."

But now, if free beings are freely choosing not to relate to God, who's to blame for that?

FUCK YOU ARE AN IDIOT WITH NO ACTUAL IDEA OF GOD!!! ALL U HAVE IS YOUR BUY_BULL.

[bahman]

He needs to reflect on reality to see that God does evil too.

"Evil" as defined from what perspective, B?

Evil is the opposite of good. Such as, killing innocents: https://www.bethinking.org/bible/old-te ... s-killings. Killing innocents is evil to you. Isn't it?

[henry quirk]

Mannie asked: Would knowledge of how to torture children be "good'?

atto responded: In what way is that knowledge YOU SICK FUCK?

Ask J. Mengle.

[Immanuel Can]

ALL U HAVE IS YOUR BUY_BULL.

I saw the gun go whistling past my ears.