We have been here before

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Age
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Re: We have been here before

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pm We all experienced Deja Vu. What we experience resides in our minds, the mind is the essence of any being with the ability to experience, decide and cause. Therefore, we have been here, in this universe, before.
If by the word 'we' 'you' mean 'human beings', then how EXACTLY have 'you', human beings, been here before?

And, why do you say "our minds", and how do 'you' "have a mind"?

If, however, when 'you' use the word 'we' 'you' are referring to some thing else, then it is is not the case that I have been here, in this Universe, before. The Truth is I have never left this one and only Universe ever.
bahman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pmMoreover, it is very unlikely that we do the same thing in different lives. Therefore we have been here a huge amount of times. The universe is however subjected to the change, meaning that it is very unlikely that we have two similar instances. Therefore, the universe is either cyclical and finite or infinite.
The Universe, by definition, and by how It works, can not be any thing else but infinite.

There is only One infinite Universe and One open Mind, consisting of many human beings who are not actually separated in any way other than in thought. Human beings are, by definition, separated, individual thinking things. A human being only has one life, but because human beings are connected to each other in the One Life of thee Universe, and to each other through thee One open Mind a perception, at times, arises of different lives, different times, and/or deja vu.

(ALL-OF-THIS can be backed up and proven scientifically.)
Age
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Re: We have been here before

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:51 pm
commonsense wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 pm from an earlier thread:
bahman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:48 pm
Waiting is something real. We know what is short, long waiting is. This means that we experience something that makes waiting meaningful to us. That thing is psychological time. What could be otherwise?
What is psychological time other than time artificially created by the psyche?
Can't you experience waiting?
Absolutely any person could experience 'waiting'. But this has very little to do with much else here.

Any person can also experience 'True Happiness', 'Pure Bliss', 'Contentment' and other things, but does this mean there is an actual 'heaven' that they are living in?
Age
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Re: We have been here before

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:52 pm
commonsense wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:56 pm Time is an artifact, time is imaginary. Time is a construct created by humans in order to comprehend change. I say this because there’s no reason that more than one change can’t happen together.

Suppose, for argument’s sake, that I speak just one syllable. A sound emanates from my vocal chords while air makes the chords vibrate and the tongue, lips and facial muscles are configured in a specific arrangement while simultaneously some molecules of oxygen are being taken up by my lungs and some amount of blood Is being pushed by a heartbeat, just to name a few of the changes that can take place together.

Unless there’s a limit to the number of changes that can occur together, all change could happen at once. If a lot of changes, or all change, happened at once, the experience would be confusing or incomprehensible to humans.

Change must be split into manageable sequences in order for us to understand our experiences. If we could not artificially create time, our experiences would be chaos.
Time is a substance and it is real. It curves according to general relativity.
What is 'time'? What is the 'substance', which you say time IS? How is 'time' real?

'time' just supposedly curves in what some one just put up as a theory of what happens.

The Truth IS, according to what some person guessed/assumed/theorized could be correct, which that person called and labelled that assumption/guess/theory "general relativity", that person also noted that 'time' curves in that assumed/guessed/theorized story of things. There has NEVER been any actual proof of 'time' being substance, and thus real in that perspective

Obviously, the REAL actual Truth of things might vary a little from that assumption/guess/theory, or vary somewhat, or vary a lot from what essentially could be partly or completely WRONG in fact.

So, to suggest that things ARE true, which are based off and from what is essentially just an assumption and guess in the beginning is besides being a very foolish thing to do, doing this will lead you completely astray from what the actual REAL Truth IS to start with.
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bahman
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:43 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:51 pm
commonsense wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 pm from an earlier thread:



What is psychological time other than time artificially created by the psyche?
Can't you experience waiting?
If I do, then I experience a real and meaningful thing—per you—which is called psychological time.

Psychological refers to something in the mind of a person. Psychological time, therefore, isn’t real. Psychological time is conjured up by the psyche of a person.

If psychological time is imagined in the mind, it still remains to be seen whether time exists in reality or not.
Do you call anything you experience except time unreal? The reality is made of minds and what minds experience and cause.
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bahman
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:50 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:52 pm
commonsense wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:56 pm Time is an artifact, time is imaginary. Time is a construct created by humans in order to comprehend change. I say this because there’s no reason that more than one change can’t happen together.

Suppose, for argument’s sake, that I speak just one syllable. A sound emanates from my vocal chords while air makes the chords vibrate and the tongue, lips and facial muscles are configured in a specific arrangement while simultaneously some molecules of oxygen are being taken up by my lungs and some amount of blood Is being pushed by a heartbeat, just to name a few of the changes that can take place together.

Unless there’s a limit to the number of changes that can occur together, all change could happen at once. If a lot of changes, or all change, happened at once, the experience would be confusing or incomprehensible to humans.

Change must be split into manageable sequences in order for us to understand our experiences. If we could not artificially create time, our experiences would be chaos.
Time is a substance and it is real. It curves according to general relativity.
If time is a substance, it must be possible to measure its mass. It is not.

If time curves, it must be able to travel in a circle, including a circle of no diameter. A single point is a circle of no diameter. Time—an invention without substance—is a single point.
You, of course, remember things. Where do they reside?
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bahman
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am
bahman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pm We all experienced Deja Vu. What we experience resides in our minds, the mind is the essence of any being with the ability to experience, decide and cause. Therefore, we have been here, in this universe, before.
If by the word 'we' 'you' mean 'human beings', then how EXACTLY have 'you', human beings, been here before?
You are a mind. You as mind have been here a huge number of times.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am And, why do you say "our minds", and how do 'you' "have a mind"?
The mind to me is the essence of any being with the ability to experience, decide and act. Therefore, saying that "I have a mind" is not correct.

Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am If, however, when 'you' use the word 'we' 'you' are referring to some thing else, then it is is not the case that I have been here, in this Universe, before. The Truth is I have never left this one and only Universe ever.
By we I mean minds.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am
bahman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pm Moreover, it is very unlikely that we do the same thing in different lives. Therefore we have been here a huge amount of times. The universe is however subjected to the change, meaning that it is very unlikely that we have two similar instances. Therefore, the universe is either cyclical and finite or infinite.
The Universe, by definition, and by how It works, can not be any thing else but infinite.
True.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am There is only One infinite Universe and One open Mind, consisting of many human beings who are not actually separated in any way other than in thought. Human beings are, by definition, separated, individual thinking things. A human being only has one life, but because human beings are connected to each other in the One Life of thee Universe, and to each other through thee One open Mind a perception, at times, arises of different lives, different times, and/or deja vu.

(ALL-OF-THIS can be backed up and proven scientifically.)
I think we are minds.
Age
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Re: We have been here before

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am
bahman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pm We all experienced Deja Vu. What we experience resides in our minds, the mind is the essence of any being with the ability to experience, decide and cause. Therefore, we have been here, in this universe, before.
If by the word 'we' 'you' mean 'human beings', then how EXACTLY have 'you', human beings, been here before?
You are a mind. You as mind have been here a huge number of times.
There is in some sense, and from a particular perspective, some truth in this.

But to see just how much truth you actually know and can explain. Will you elaborate further on what this 'mind' thing is exactly?

If yes, the great.

If no, then okay.

Also, where is here, which supposedly 'you' have been a huge number of times?

What is a 'huge' number?

How did you leave here, and come back?

Where did you go when you left here?
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am And, why do you say "our minds", and how do 'you' "have a mind"?
The mind to me is the essence of any being with the ability to experience, decide and act.
What is a 'being', which has the essence, which is the 'mind'?

Does a flower that follows the sun, for example, have the ability to experience, decide and act?

If yes, then is this a 'being' also with the mind as its essence as well?

If no, then will you clarify what is a being and what is not, and/or any thing else wrong here?
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pmTherefore, saying that "I have a mind" is not correct.
Okay, so when 'you' wrote, "our minds", then what did you actually mean?

bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am If, however, when 'you' use the word 'we' 'you' are referring to some thing else, then it is is not the case that I have been here, in this Universe, before. The Truth is I have never left this one and only Universe ever.
By we I mean minds.
Okay, so to correct what you previously wrote you mean the word 'we' means 'minds' and the word 'you' means 'mind'. Is this now correct?

If no, then what do you actually mean?

But if yes, then what do you mean when you previously wrote and said; What we (or minds) experience resides in we (or minds)? Are you saying that what 'you' experience resides in 'you'? (it does help considerably if 'you' speak for 'you' only instead of 'trying to' speak for me and/or "others" as well).

Also, if the mind, which is you, is the essence of a being, then who or what is that 'being' exactly, which the essence of is the mind, which you have just said is 'you' anyway?


So, who and/or what is the 'being' which 'you' are the essence of, exactly?
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am
bahman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pm Moreover, it is very unlikely that we do the same thing in different lives. Therefore we have been here a huge amount of times. The universe is however subjected to the change, meaning that it is very unlikely that we have two similar instances. Therefore, the universe is either cyclical and finite or infinite.
The Universe, by definition, and by how It works, can not be any thing else but infinite.
True.


Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am There is only One infinite Universe and One open Mind, consisting of many human beings who are not actually separated in any way other than in thought. Human beings are, by definition, separated, individual thinking things. A human being only has one life, but because human beings are connected to each other in the One Life of thee Universe, and to each other through thee One open Mind a perception, at times, arises of different lives, different times, and/or deja vu.

(ALL-OF-THIS can be backed up and proven scientifically.)
I think we are minds.
So, what 'you' are essentially saying here is; the mind thinks it and other minds are minds, correct?

If yes, then okay. That so called "mind" is FREE to 'think' whatever it wants to think. If it makes any real sense or not is another matter.

If, however, that is not correct, then what is actually correct?

What are 'you' 'trying to' say here?

When, and if, you start answering my clarifying questions, then I would better understand what it is that 'you' are 'trying to' say here, correct?

To make the claim here that, 'We have been here before', then surely you must know what 'you' are talking about, right?

Also, 'you' have not even got past fully explaining and making sense what the 'we' part of your claim is yet, before 'we' begin to move on to the 'here' part of your claim. Also, as I informed 'you' earlier ALL-OF-THIS can be explained in way that makes PURE sense. But you come across as though you believe you fully understand ALL-OF-THIS and that you KNOW what thee actual Truth IS. So, I will just let you SHOW us what that IS exactly.
commonsense
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Re: We have been here before

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:10 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:50 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:52 pm
Time is a substance and it is real. It curves according to general relativity.
If time is a substance, it must be possible to measure its mass. It is not.

If time curves, it must be able to travel in a circle, including a circle of no diameter. A single point is a circle of no diameter. Time—an invention without substance—is a single point.
You, of course, remember things. Where do they reside?
Some in the real world and some in my mind.
commonsense
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Re: We have been here before

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:07 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:43 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:51 pm
Can't you experience waiting?
If I do, then I experience a real and meaningful thing—per you—which is called psychological time.

Psychological refers to something in the mind of a person. Psychological time, therefore, isn’t real. Psychological time is conjured up by the psyche of a person.

If psychological time is imagined in the mind, it still remains to be seen whether time exists in reality or not.
Do you call anything you experience except time unreal? The reality is made of minds and what minds experience and cause.
For argument’s sake you may assume that I call some things real and I call other things unreal.

Why did you want to know?
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bahman
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:48 am
bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:51 pm
commonsense wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 pm from an earlier thread:



What is psychological time other than time artificially created by the psyche?
Can't you experience waiting?
Absolutely any person could experience 'waiting'. But this has very little to do with much else here.

Any person can also experience 'True Happiness', 'Pure Bliss', 'Contentment' and other things, but does this mean there is an actual 'heaven' that they are living in?
That is time which allows you to experience different things sequentially.
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bahman
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:01 am
bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:52 pm
commonsense wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:56 pm Time is an artifact, time is imaginary. Time is a construct created by humans in order to comprehend change. I say this because there’s no reason that more than one change can’t happen together.

Suppose, for argument’s sake, that I speak just one syllable. A sound emanates from my vocal chords while air makes the chords vibrate and the tongue, lips and facial muscles are configured in a specific arrangement while simultaneously some molecules of oxygen are being taken up by my lungs and some amount of blood Is being pushed by a heartbeat, just to name a few of the changes that can take place together.

Unless there’s a limit to the number of changes that can occur together, all change could happen at once. If a lot of changes, or all change, happened at once, the experience would be confusing or incomprehensible to humans.

Change must be split into manageable sequences in order for us to understand our experiences. If we could not artificially create time, our experiences would be chaos.
Time is a substance and it is real. It curves according to general relativity.
What is 'time'?
Time is a thing which allows that events happen sequentially. It is in this sense fundamental in any dynamic reality.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:01 am What is the 'substance', which you say time IS?
A substance is something that exists and we can experience it.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:01 am How is 'time' real?
Because without it there could not be any change. It is a fundamental variable of any dynamical theory.
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am

If by the word 'we' 'you' mean 'human beings', then how EXACTLY have 'you', human beings, been here before?
You are a mind. You as mind have been here a huge number of times.
There is in some sense, and from a particular perspective, some truth in this.

But to see just how much truth you actually know and can explain. Will you elaborate further on what this 'mind' thing is exactly?
Mind is a thing that can experience, decide and cause. Things can be divided to two categories: 1) Mindful and 2) Mindless. Mindless things, such as time, space, etc., can be experienced.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm If yes, the great.

If no, then okay.
Great. :mrgreen:
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm Also, where is here, which supposedly 'you' have been a huge number of times?
By here I mean the similar situations in the past.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm What is a 'huge' number?
A very very big number.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm How did you leave here, and come back?

Where did you go when you left here?
We go to another reality when we die. You live there for a very very long time until you get used to everything. You then somehow manage to come to this reality by forgetting things. Everything looks new to you so you are entertained for a little bit. Until you get used to things. The reality is that eternal life is torture if you could not forget things.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am And, why do you say "our minds", and how do 'you' "have a mind"?
The mind to me is the essence of any being with the ability to experience, decide and act.
What is a 'being', which has the essence, which is the 'mind'?
Being such as me, you, other people or even things.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm Does a flower that follows the sun, for example, have the ability to experience, decide and act?
Any change requires a mind. I have an argument for that.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm If yes, then is this a 'being' also with the mind as its essence as well?
I cal something which can experience, decide and cause as mind.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm If no, then will you clarify what is a being and what is not, and/or any thing else wrong here?
Something could be either mindful like me and you or mindless like time and space.
Age wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:17 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm Therefore, saying that "I have a mind" is not correct.
Okay, so when 'you' wrote, "our minds", then what did you actually mean?
Okay, that is wrong to say too. We are simply minds. :mrgreen:
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am If, however, when 'you' use the word 'we' 'you' are referring to some thing else, then it is is not the case that I have been here, in this Universe, before. The Truth is I have never left this one and only Universe ever.
By we I mean minds.
Okay, so to correct what you previously wrote you mean the word 'we' means 'minds' and the word 'you' means 'mind'. Is this now correct?
Yes. I am a mind.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am But if yes, then what do you mean when you previously wrote and said; What we (or minds) experience resides in we (or minds)?
I mean that our experience resides somewhere otherwise, we couldn't remember them. I think that my experiences reside in my mind. They are personal so they are in me, a mind.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am Are you saying that what 'you' experience resides in 'you'? (it does help considerably if 'you' speak for 'you' only instead of 'trying to' speak for me and/or "others" as well).
No, I am saying that what I experienced in the past resides in me somehow.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am Also, if the mind, which is you, is the essence of a being, then who or what is that 'being' exactly, which the essence of is the mind, which you have just said is 'you' anyway?
Anything which exists has an essence which make it what it is. Things are mindfull/beings or mindless/things. Being like me, you, etc. Things like time, color, space, etc.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am So, who and/or what is the 'being' which 'you' are the essence of, exactly?
I think I answered that.
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am
The Universe, by definition, and by how It works, can not be any thing else but infinite.
True.


Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:45 am There is only One infinite Universe and One open Mind, consisting of many human beings who are not actually separated in any way other than in thought. Human beings are, by definition, separated, individual thinking things. A human being only has one life, but because human beings are connected to each other in the One Life of thee Universe, and to each other through thee One open Mind a perception, at times, arises of different lives, different times, and/or deja vu.

(ALL-OF-THIS can be backed up and proven scientifically.)
I think we are minds.
So, what 'you' are essentially saying here is; the mind thinks it and other minds are minds, correct?
There are minds. Each mind can think too.
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bahman
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:02 am
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:10 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:50 pm

If time is a substance, it must be possible to measure its mass. It is not.

If time curves, it must be able to travel in a circle, including a circle of no diameter. A single point is a circle of no diameter. Time—an invention without substance—is a single point.
You, of course, remember things. Where do they reside?
Some in the real world and some in my mind.
I think they, your past experiences, only reside in your mind. That is true since they are personal.
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bahman
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Re: We have been here before

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:36 am
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:07 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:43 pm

If I do, then I experience a real and meaningful thing—per you—which is called psychological time.

Psychological refers to something in the mind of a person. Psychological time, therefore, isn’t real. Psychological time is conjured up by the psyche of a person.

If psychological time is imagined in the mind, it still remains to be seen whether time exists in reality or not.
Do you call anything you experience except time unreal? The reality is made of minds and what minds experience and cause.
For argument’s sake you may assume that I call some things real and I call other things unreal.

Why did you want to know?
I am wondering whether you agree with me on this: "The reality is made of minds and what minds experience and cause.".
These things are real. I mean they exist.
Age
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Re: We have been here before

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:15 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:48 am
bahman wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:51 pm
Can't you experience waiting?
Absolutely any person could experience 'waiting'. But this has very little to do with much else here.

Any person can also experience 'True Happiness', 'Pure Bliss', 'Contentment' and other things, but does this mean there is an actual 'heaven' that they are living in?
That is time which allows you to experience different things sequentially.
This is what you BELIEVE is true, which, by the way, you are having trouble explaining and having your explanation accepted. Why do you think or believe this is so?

From my experience the reason why I experience different things sequentially is because I am LOOKING AT the One thing of Life, Existence, or Universe, as distinctly different separate things, and so I see "different things" sequentially. This is because I SEE the One thing in a constant continual change. I SEE Creation continually changing, and evolving into its own Self. This continual change is what allows me to experience the "different things" sequentially.

And, I have ALREADY explained what 'time' IS, to me, and how 'time' relates to the continual changing action-re-action process of Life, Itself.

I also FULLY understand WHY you think and believe what you do, and also KNOW WHY those views and beliefs do NOT fit in with the actual Truth of things.
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