Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

Post by Arising_uk »

- something evolves
Don't viruses do this all the time?
- a scientist invents something that is useful to mankind based upon his belief in evolution.
GM crops, Gene-therapy(when the tools are found), DNA profiling.
- a scientist discovers a new aspect of reality that can only make sense in light of evolution.
Why a new aspect of reality? Why not a better explanation for an old one, i.e. the myriad forms of living things being explained as not the result of direct intervention by a 'god'? We use forms of biological evolution in Computing now-a-days and does seem to produce the programs we want.
It should be considered as shameful as 'climate gate'. Even if the climate is warming or even if evolution is true the deliberate lying and manipulation of data is everything science should not be.
This is the problem of science, politics and the public. It was just as shameful that the politicians ignored the science advice in the beginning and now they are on the 'bandwagon' its just as much that they are glossing over certain science advice now. Still, I accept that scientists are easily capable of fixing their data to fit their theory, hence peer-review(although this appears to be in trouble in some quarters now-a-days).
These findings, dug out of the ground, are always interpreted according to the theory. You find a rabbit in the wrong strata layer and I guarantee no scientist will accept that finding.
Nice idea but you won't, as Haldane pointed-out. BUt I disbelieve your words as if they found a whole warren of them then they would start to re-assess their ideas, unlike the religious I suspect.
Scientists are truly trapped in the paradigm of long ages and every piece they find is made to fit. The good thing is that science doesn't need a scientist's theories to work only the application of the scientific method.
As you've pointed out the scientific method works within an assumed theory. As such, theories are needed but if experimentation shows otherwise then the theory needs to be re-examined. This is why Science is pretty much the only way we've found of escaping long-held paradigms.
Wootah
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Re: Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

Post by Wootah »

Don't viruses do this all the time?
They mutate sure. Evolve, no. I haven't heard of many viruses becoming a whole new type of virus.
GM crops, Gene-therapy(when the tools are found), DNA profiling.
None of which required a belief in millions of years of evolution in order to see and understand why genes operate.
Why a new aspect of reality? Why not a better explanation for an old one, i.e. the myriad forms of living things being explained as not the result of direct intervention by a 'god'? We use forms of biological evolution in Computing now-a-days and does seem to produce the programs we want.
Everything I understand about biological computing involves the programmer (usually through code) selecting results that adhere to his expectations.
As you've pointed out the scientific method works within an assumed theory. As such, theories are needed but if experimentation shows otherwise then the theory needs to be re-examined. This is why Science is pretty much the only way we've found of escaping long-held paradigms.
Agreed.
Wootah
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Re: Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

Post by Wootah »

Here is a perfect example of the shuffling of discoveries to fit the paradigm.
http://creation.com/polish-tetrapod-foo ... -tiktaalik
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Rortabend
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Re: Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

Post by Rortabend »

Perhaps the fossils are not recording evolution over millions of years. Perhaps they represent instead the catastrophic burial of the entire biosphere of the earth during a recent global watery catastrophe—like Noah’s Flood. What a radical thought.
What a great explanation! Assuming the flood happened 4000-5000 years ago, how exactly would this fossil have formed in that time? Creationism has no explanation for fossil formation because it cannot accept the results of geology.
Wootah
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Re: Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

Post by Wootah »

Rortabend wrote:
Perhaps the fossils are not recording evolution over millions of years. Perhaps they represent instead the catastrophic burial of the entire biosphere of the earth during a recent global watery catastrophe—like Noah’s Flood. What a radical thought.
What a great explanation! Assuming the flood happened 4000-5000 years ago, how exactly would this fossil have formed in that time? Creationism has no explanation for fossil formation because it cannot accept the results of geology.
Huh? Something dies, or foot prints get embedded in some ground in this case. Then it gets covered over rapidly, then it fossilizes. How do you think fossilization occurs?

http://creation.com/fast-fossils
http://creation.com/fossils-questions-and-answers
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Rortabend
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Re: Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

Post by Rortabend »

I think you need to learn a little bit more about sedimentary rock formation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedimentary_rock

It is true that fast fossilisation can occur but this only explains a very small fraction of fossils that we have observed. Nice try but no cigar!
Wootah
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Re: Imre Lakatos & Evolution Theory

Post by Wootah »

Rortabend wrote:I think you need to learn a little bit more about sedimentary rock formation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedimentary_rock

It is true that fast fossilisation can occur but this only explains a very small fraction of fossils that we have observed. Nice try but no cigar!
I'm not understanding your point yet.
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