Power and the Public Good

[Nick_A]

Many people on the Left believe that the purpose of acquiring power is for the good of the public.

"We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America." - Barack Obama, October 30, 2008

"God bless the America we are trying to create." Hillary Clinton

So the purpose of the progressive movement theoretically serves the public good by transforming America into what furthers the public good. Of course that is a foolish idea but to make matters worse it masks a far greater dangerous reality which is the attraction to power itself as described in George Orwell's book 1984.

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Of course the snowflakes being indoctrinated in universities as well as many regular citizens have no concept that the society being advertised is pure fantasy and supporting it just invites a surrender to "power" in whatever form. Is political and psychological slavery necessary to support the goal of power really worth sacrificing freedom for?. Once we realize that power is not the means to an end but the end itself makes the support and defense of freedom much more attractive.

[Nick_A]

One thing that has been proven over and over again is that the majority are unwilling to support freedom until they experience the consequences of the effects of power. That is why this thread is so hard to reply to. it disturbs our sleep.

America has honored D Day and the invasion of Normandy

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 365312001/

Look at the pictures and say why bother fighting. Just give in to power. Can it be worse than Donald Trump? It is the modern way. why call these soldiers brave. Aren't they just gullible for agreeing to defend a concept not worth the effort

On June 6, 1944, Allied forces stormed the beaches of Normandy in Nazi-occupied France during World War II, forever reshaping the progress of the war and history during the D-Day operation.

Thousands of ships, planes and soldiers from the United States, Britain and Canada surprised Nazi forces.

More than 4,000 Allied soldiers, most of them younger than 20, as well as more than 4,000 German troops died in the invasion. Up to 20,000 French civilians were also reportedly killed in the bombings.

In 2019, veterans and world leaders gathered to honor the soldiers who took part in the invasion, led by Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower and known then as Operation Overlord.

To mark the historic day, here are 17 photos that show how the battle unfolded.

Yes I know; it is horribly old fashioned to call this bravery. Freedom isn't worth the effort. Just play with your remote and trust that might makes right. it is the modern way

[Impenitent]

or use your might and fight the system

either way, Thrasymachus remains correct

-Imp

[Nick_A]

or use your might and fight the system

either way, Thrasymachus remains correct

-Imp

Your defense of Thasymachus is admirable. However there is another possibility to consider

https://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Anci/AnciBhan.htm

Thrasymachus who represented the new and critical view, propounded the radical theory of justice. He defines justice as "the interest of the stronger". In the other words, might is right. For while, every man acts for himself and tries to get what he can, the strongest is sure to get what he wants and as in a state the Government is the strongest, it will try to get and it will get, whatever it wants for itself. Thus, for Thrasymachus justice means personal interest of the ruling group in any state or we can further define it as "another's good". Laws are made by the ruling party in its own interest. Those who violate such laws are punished because violation of such laws is treated as violation of justice. Socrates criticises the defination of justice given by Thrasymachus and he says just as a physician studies and exercises his power not in his interest but in the interest of a patient, the Government of any kind shall do what is good for the people for whom it exercises its art. But Thrasymachus advances some more arguments in support of his concept of justice and injustice.

An unjust is superior to a just in character and intelligence.
Injustice is a source of strength.
Injustice brings happiness.
Socrates attacks these points of Thrasymachus and throws light on the nature of justice.

Justice implies superior character and intelligence while injustice means deficiency in both respects. Therefore, just men are superior in character and intelligence and are more effective in action. As injustice implies ignorance, stupidity and badness, It cannot be superior in character and intelligence. A just man is wiser because he acknowledges the principle of limit.

Unlimited self-assertion is not a source of strength for any group organized for common purpose, Unlimited desire and claims lead to conflicts.
Life of just man is better and happier. There is always some specific virtue in everything, which enables it to work well. If it is deprived of that virtue, it works badly. The soul has specific functions to perform. When it performs its specific functions, it has specific excellence or virtue. If, it is deprived of its peculiar virtue, it cannot possibly do its work well. It is agreed that the virtue of the soul is justice. The soul which is more virtuous or in other words more just is also the happier soul. Therefore, a just man lives happy. A just soul, in other words a just man, lives well; an unjust cannot.

At this juncture the new point of view is stated by Glaucon and he put Forward a form of what was later to be known as a social contract theory, arguing we are only moral because, it pays us or we have to be. Glaucon describes the historical evolution of the society where justice as a necessity had become the shield of the weaker. In the primitive stage of society without law and government, man was free to do whatever he likes. So the stronger few enjoyed the life at the sufferance of the weaker many. The weaker, however, realised that they suffered more injustice. Faced with this situation they came to an agreement and instituted law and government through a sort of social contract and preached the philosophy of just. Therefore, justice in this way something artificial and unnatural. It is the "product of convention". It is through this artificial rule of justice and law that the natural selfishness of man is chained. A dictate of the weaker many, for the interest of the weaker many, as against the natural and superior power of the stronger few.

Plato realises that all theories propounded by Cephalus, Thrasymachus and Glaucon, contained one common element. That one common element was that all the them treated justice as something external "an accomplishment, an importation, or a convention, they have, none of them carried it into the soul or considered it in the place of its habitation." Plato prove that justice does not depend upon a chance, convention or upon external force. It is the right condition of the human soul by the very nature of man when seen in the fullness of his environment. It is in this way that Plato condemned the position taken by Glaucon that justice is something which is external. According to Plato, it is internal as it resides in the human soul. "It is now regarded as an inward grace and its understanding is shown to involve a study of the inner man." It is, therefore, natural and no artificial. It is therefore, not born of fear of the weak but of the longing of the human soul to do a duty according to its nature.
Yes, the modern way is “might makes right” It is the way of animal Man which governments seek to control by force.

Socrates offers a potential that the great beast is not yet ready for. He refers to Man being governed by higher values natural for soul knowledge making freedom possible. Everything indicates that it is impossible since animal Man is yet to become open to soul knowledge. Might makes right or the essential animal reaction must win out. There is nothing to oppose it.. Perhaps in the 24th century it may be different but for now regardless of finest platitudes to the contrary, might makes right will be the deciding factor.

You are right: Thasymachus remains correct. It is the nature of the Beast to deny the value of and potential for freedom as it worships the great god of government which loves you and teaches you why freedom is not worth fighting for...

[Walker]

Of course the snowflakes being indoctrinated in universities as well as many regular citizens have no concept that the society being advertised is pure fantasy and supporting it just invites a surrender to "power" in whatever form. Is political and psychological slavery necessary to support the goal of power really worth sacrificing freedom for?. Once we realize that power is not the means to an end but the end itself makes the support and defense of freedom much more attractive.

In the search for power, wind turbines are quite the fantasy spectacle, a whirling hype of efficiency, a failed simulacrum of the nebulous Green consciousness. You don’t see sails on yellow submarines but you never know, a design for low-energy squid-propulsion, purchased from a genius dolphin for the purpose of producing currents of water not wind, could be languishing in some dusty drawer of forgotten patents in the basement of a government tomb.

They're the T-Rex of technology servicing the future ... swatting eagles from the sky.

What is the power that permits these monstrosities to exist?

The total costs involved in wind energy are colossal
https://www.iceagenow.info/the-total-co ... -colossal/

[gaffo]

from your below, i assume you are a "rightist" if so, what is your "Vision" of Power and/or the/a greater good?

Many people on the Left believe that the purpose of acquiring power is for the good of the public.

I'm a left 70's Dem, now Libertarian.

i believe the good is via community unity via my view of Universal Human Secularism. i affirm the Enlightenment concepts and my Constitution.

as to the purpose of power? - is to personal power (Hitler/Stalin anyone without eyes?)

anywhy the Bill of Rights this best part of my Constitution (9th is the best of the best BTW), mindset of course is to protect majority rule (mob rule) from the minority (which of course is not the same as championing Tsarist minority rule (which is what we have now BTW).

affirm Jury Pardon powers!

[Nick_A]

Gaffo

from your below, i assume you are a "rightist" if so, what is your "Vision" of Power and/or the/a greater good?

Power gives us the ability to accomplish our aim. To have this power we first need a conscious aim relating to the greater good. then we need sufficient will to further our aim and finally the physical ability to introduce it in the world.

My aim for the greater good is to support activities which make it possible through a healthy metaxu. Metaxu is what serves as the connection between Man and the source of existence. A healthy metaxu invites us to the experience awe and wonder of the reality above ours

Man is like a green plant. Our roots are in the ground of society and receive nourishment from the quality of society much like a plant is nourished by the quality of soil its roots are in. Our roots are equivalent to the lower parts of the collective human essence. Our higher parts are equivalent to the leaves of the plant.

A plant uses Chlorophyll which allows plants to absorb energy from sunlight. It is vital for photosynthesis,

A human being can receive the light of grace to nourish our higher parts if we are open to it. Without the help of grace humanity becomes more animal. Man becomes spiritually unhealthy much like a plant becomes unhealthy in insufficient light.

The aim for a healthy society is to support the human need to become oneself. A healthy society will have higher values and its culture would have a metaxu which serves to awaken us to a quality of reality greater than what we live in. A healthy society will aid in a person's ability to open to the light of grace so as to nourish the higher parts of our being as it grows in conscious quality.

Yes, it is no longer possible for a world attached to the struggle for prestige and technological advances. But that doesn't mean I cannot support the intent to keep ideas alive.

Power could theoretically serve the need to sustain a healthy soil or society and provide the incentive to open to grace. But power is being used to provide the opposite which doesn't offer an optimistic perspective.

[henry quirk]

Many folks on the Right believe that too.

just sayin'...

[Nick_A]

If we have chosen the position in life in which we can most of all work for mankind, no burdens can bow us down, because they are sacrifices for the benefit of all; then we shall experience no petty, limited, selfish joy, but our happiness will belong to millions, our deeds will live on quietly but perpetually at work, and over our ashes will be shed the hot tears of noble people.

Marx, Reflections of a Young Man (1835)

You must remember the power to kill, capture, put in prison, or reeducate is for your own good. What is a little suffering compared to the happiness which will belong to millions because of a little suffering? Your LORD, the Great Beast, knows all and will use power to actualize it. It is insulting for anyone to think differently.

[Walker]

We The People answer The Beast. Will The Beast hear? History says, no. The Beast corrupts University into ideology that deafens rationality to reality. The Beast may sense danger. The Beast may lay low after punishment, but The Beast never dies. It waits to pounce.

“When the punitive damage jury verdict was read in court yesterday in Gibson’s Bakery v. Oberlin College, it was like a seismic wave moving quickly through the courtroom.”

https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/p ... courtroom/

“You would expect a highly regarded university, with a long history of being a great school in this country, would have disregarded what we would think of as a basic thought process.”
- Plakas for the plaintiff