Einstein on the train

[Atla]

Okay, so now I am clear. When you write some thing is DEFINITELY true what you actually mean is it actually might be false, and vice-versa. So thanks for finally clearing that up for me.

Okay thanks for finally clearing this up also. When YOU say some thing it TOTALLY not true, what you actually mean is it may actually be false, and vice-versa.

It wasn't "finally", I already cleared that up several times. I guess in a few days you'll pretend to have forgotten it again.
Stop lying

If you can NOT find them or could NOT bothered looking for them, then I very well understand WHY.

I, however, unlike you, much prefer to re-post what I am referring to, as evidenced for what I am saying, and evidenced by how I have actually done this.

I won't search for it because you should remember it, not sweep it under the carpet. Stop putting the blame on me.
Stop lying

That is exactly what I just said.

You want to disagree with me and even TRY TO, but then you end up just saying exactly what I just said.

No, it's not. You talk about the "Truth of things" all the time, your absolute certain knowledge.
Stop lying

How could I be deflecting when I brought this subject back into the discussion?

What available evidence do 'you' have that 'I' am insane?

Almost all your comments are evidence. You keep preaching your "Truth of things", your absolutely certain bullshit. And you think that everyone who doesn't agree with that is wrong. That's insane (and malignant).
Stop lying

This is what you believe:
"3. The True Self is saying absolutely 100% True and Right things all the time. "we', unfortunately, block this out with our unnecessary assumptions, beliefs, et cetera. So, the True Self can and does communicate through ALL human bodies, that is; when what is being expressed through human bodies is True and Right."

-------------

Question: Why do you want to force your brand of insanity onto others so badly?

[Age]

Okay, so now I am clear. When you write some thing is DEFINITELY true what you actually mean is it actually might be false, and vice-versa. So thanks for finally clearing that up for me.

Okay thanks for finally clearing this up also. When YOU say some thing it TOTALLY not true, what you actually mean is it may actually be false, and vice-versa.

It wasn't "finally", I already cleared that up several times. I guess in a few days you'll pretend to have forgotten it again.
Stop lying

If you can NOT find them or could NOT bothered looking for them, then I very well understand WHY.

I, however, unlike you, much prefer to re-post what I am referring to, as evidenced for what I am saying, and evidenced by how I have actually done this.

I won't search for it because you should remember it, not sweep it under the carpet. Stop putting the blame on me.
Stop lying

That is exactly what I just said.

You want to disagree with me and even TRY TO, but then you end up just saying exactly what I just said.

No, it's not. You talk about the "Truth of things" all the time, your absolute certain knowledge.
Stop lying

How could I be deflecting when I brought this subject back into the discussion?

What available evidence do 'you' have that 'I' am insane?

Almost all your comments are evidence. You keep preaching your "Truth of things", your absolutely certain bullshit. And you think that everyone who doesn't agree with that is wrong. That's insane (and malignant).
Stop lying

This is what you believe:
"3. The True Self is saying absolutely 100% True and Right things all the time. "we', unfortunately, block this out with our unnecessary assumptions, beliefs, et cetera. So, the True Self can and does communicate through ALL human bodies, that is; when what is being expressed through human bodies is True and Right."

-------------

Question: Why do you want to force your brand of insanity onto others so badly?

Lol we are in a thread about physics and you still can not stop looking at ME.

Do you want to force your BELIEFS onto others?

You are so blinded by your own BELIEFS that you have NOT yet even begin to comprehend what I have NOT yet even expressed. But here you are BELIEVING you ALREADY KNOW.

[Atla]

Lol we are in a thread about physics and you still can not stop looking at ME.

Do you want to force your BELIEFS onto others?

You are so blinded by your own BELIEFS that you have NOT yet even begin to comprehend what I have NOT yet even expressed. But here you are BELIEVING you ALREADY KNOW.

Nice deflection/projection, in physics we know since 90+ years that the observable universe seems to be expanding. And yet you are forcing your absolutely certain beliefs here as well.
You are the one acting like you already know. Stop lying.

[uwot]

And what you have just done was tell your story as though it was a picture-perfect VIEW of things, which was based on your own distinctint definitions.

No. What I have done is related a story that someone else told, bunged in a couple of historical facts and stated a couple of opinions. All of which you are free to interpret in your own way.

To some 'philosophy' is NOT a game but rather a love of becoming wiser.

Right. So the first thing to take from philosophy is the apocryphal story of Socrates.

And, some say that there is only one thing that be KNOWN, for sure.

Argh, Cap'n Age, there be only one thing known for sure.

So, every thing else is NOT known at all, but only ASSUMED or BELIEVED to be true, by saying some.

No, no, no Age. Any scientist worth their salt knows that their assumptions and beliefs are provisional.

While some just declare that they are just expressing a VIEW, without saying they know it is right but in fact could actually be wrong, or partly wrong.

Right, and they're the smart ones. Like Socrates, they know they don't know. If new information comes to light, they will change their opinion.

Now, contrary to your assumption expressed above, I may have actually 'got' ALL of that a long time ago, even if you believe otherwise.

It is not an assumption, you demonstrably still haven't got it.

[Age]

Lol we are in a thread about physics and you still can not stop looking at ME.

Do you want to force your BELIEFS onto others?

You are so blinded by your own BELIEFS that you have NOT yet even begin to comprehend what I have NOT yet even expressed.

But here you are BELIEVING you ALREADY KNOW.

Nice deflection/projection, in physics we know since 90+ years that the observable universe seems to be expanding.

Finally thee actual and real Truth comes to light.

The observable universe SEEMS to be expanding. SEE you do ALREADY KNOW the Truth of things, like I do.

It just takes a lot of persuasion to get It out of 'you'.

There is far MORE of thee actual and real Truth down there inside you, which comes from the ABSOLUTE True Self, if you are at all interested.

And yet you are forcing your absolutely certain beliefs here as well.

But I do NOT have any BELIEFS. (I MUST OF forgotten to TELL YOU).

What are these supposed 'absolutely certain beliefs', which you BELIEVE I am "forcing"?

If I have been supposedly "forcing" BELIEFS here, then it should be EXTREMELY EASY for you to POINT THEM OUT.

You are the one acting like you already know. Stop lying.

But that is the WHOLE POINT of ALL of this. I DO ALREADY KNOW.

That is WHY you have NOT been able to challenge NOR question me YET about what I say.

What you can do, and have done, though is just TRY TO ridicule me and TELL ME that I am WRONG. But, unfortunately, without ANY evidence provided.

[Age]

And what you have just done was tell your story as though it was a picture-perfect VIEW of things, which was based on your own distinctint definitions.

No. What I have done is related a story that someone else told, bunged in a couple of historical facts and stated a couple of opinions. All of which you are free to interpret in your own way.

You have told a story, said there are facts, which are NOT really facts at all, and have said some things as though they are true, when they are OBVIOUSLY NOT.

To some 'philosophy' is NOT a game but rather a love of becoming wiser.

Right. So the first thing to take from philosophy is the apocryphal story of Socrates.

But that is YOUR story, based on your own distinct definitions.

And, some say that there is only one thing that be KNOWN, for sure.

Argh, Cap'n Age, there be only one thing known for sure.

So, do you agree that there is ONE thing known for sure?

If yes, then what is it.
If no, then what are you suggesting here?

By the way I forgot to mention there is one thing known for sure, individually. But there are other things that are ALREADY KNOWN, which will come to light, collectively.

ALL of these KNOWN are the Truth of things, which comes from and through Honesty and OPENNESS.

Answers given or NOT given to clarifying questions SHOWS just how OPEN and Honest or NOT a person IS.

So, every thing else is NOT known at all, but only ASSUMED or BELIEVED to be true, by saying some.

No, no, no Age. Any scientist worth their salt knows that their assumptions and beliefs are provisional.

A 'scientist' is just a label put onto a human being.

A human being with assumptions and beliefs is NOT worth salt. Full stop.

A Truly intelligent human being does NOT have assumptions nor beliefs.

ALL adult human beings have assumptions and beliefs. NOT all children have assumptions and beliefs.

While some just declare that they are just expressing a VIEW, without saying they know it is right but in fact could actually be wrong, or partly wrong.

Right, and they're the smart ones. Like Socrates, they know they don't know. If new information comes to light, they will change their opinion.

Is an 'opinion' an assumption or a belief?

Now, contrary to your assumption expressed above, I may have actually 'got' ALL of that a long time ago, even if you believe otherwise.

It is not an assumption, you demonstrably still haven't got it.

LOL.

Demonstrate it then.

[Atla]

Finally thee actual and real Truth comes to light.

The observable universe SEEMS to be expanding. SEE you do ALREADY KNOW the Truth of things, like I do.

It just takes a lot of persuasion to get It out of 'you'.

There is far MORE of thee actual and real Truth down there inside you, which comes from the ABSOLUTE True Self, if you are at all interested.

You are wrong, there is no "Truth of things".
It seems to be expanding in the Einsteinian sense. Beyond that it's just speculation, and that speculation comes from me and you, not some "absolute True Self".

But I do NOT have any BELIEFS. (I MUST OF forgotten to TELL YOU).

What are these supposed 'absolutely certain beliefs', which you BELIEVE I am "forcing"?

If I have been supposedly "forcing" BELIEFS here, then it should be EXTREMELY EASY for you to POINT THEM OUT.

You believe that absolute Truths comes from the True Self. And you believe every such absolute Truth.
You have a ton of insane beliefs. All you do is try to force them onto others.

But that is the WHOLE POINT of ALL of this. I DO ALREADY KNOW.

That is WHY you have NOT been able to challenge NOR question me YET about what I say.

What you can do, and have done, though is just TRY TO ridicule me and TELL ME that I am WRONG. But, unfortunately, without ANY evidence provided.

No, you only BELIEVE that you know. But you don't know.
That's very much deserving of ridicule.

And for example the evidence shows that the observable universe is expanding. That's basic knowledge so stop lying.

[uwot]

A human being with assumptions and beliefs is NOT worth salt. Full stop.

That is your own assumption or belief.

A Truly intelligent human being does NOT have assumptions nor beliefs.

Well, yer kinda ruled yourself out then.

Demonstrate it then.

You've done it for us.

[surreptitious57]

The term atheist refers to a human being with a BELIEF. For the very reason you just gave. So if the person labelled surreptitious
57 then that person has and holds A or does BELIEF which is actually contrary to what that same person clearly expresses

This is not true because I dont believe in anything at all - I either know something is true or think it is true
There is nothing I simply believe to be true. In the case of God I dont believe in him so the question of belief does not arise
Its more accurate to say I dont think God exists because I prefer not to use the words believe / belief where I am concerned

[surreptitious57]

Also saying my views are WRONG because I am a moron

Please do not mention this ever again in any response to me. I have never said this about you and
you therefore had no need to mention it here. Save it for those who have actually called you this

[Age]

Finally thee actual and real Truth comes to light.

The observable universe SEEMS to be expanding. SEE you do ALREADY KNOW the Truth of things, like I do.

It just takes a lot of persuasion to get It out of 'you'.

There is far MORE of thee actual and real Truth down there inside you, which comes from the ABSOLUTE True Self, if you are at all interested.

You are wrong, there is no "Truth of things".

You have already explained to us that when you say things like; 'You are wrong', what you actually mean is that 'that' could actually be WRONG itself, and therefore what you are really saying is that you do NOT know what the Truth is and are just saying things, which could be not be true at all.

You have informed us that you are NOT certain of any thing you say. So, the Truth is whenever you say things like above the exact opposite could well be the actual Truth of things.

If there are NO 'Truth of things', then absolutely EVERY thing you say is 'NOT the Truth of things'. Therefore, they are just your assumptions, guesses, and beliefs, which in reality could be wrong, false, and/or incorrect.

I will just remember this each time you express some thing as though it is thee Truth, (of things).

It seems to be expanding in the Einsteinian sense. Beyond that it's just speculation, and that speculation comes from me and you, not some "absolute True Self".

Of course 'you' and 'me' speculate on things, that there SEEMS to be expansion is also a SPECULATION, which people like 'you' have speculated on. However, the True Self does NOT have to speculate. The True Self KNOWS what thee Truth of things IS ALREADY, OBVIOUSLY.

Also, WHY did you write "It 'seems' to be expanding ... Beyond that it is just speculation"? You are writing this as though 'the Universe IS expanding' IS thee actual Truth of things. Is this correct?

If yes, then okay.
If no, then what are you saying here in your writing?

The words 'seems to be' and 'beyond that it is just speculation' appear to contradict each other.

But I do NOT have any BELIEFS. (I MUST OF forgotten to TELL YOU).

What are these supposed 'absolutely certain beliefs', which you BELIEVE I am "forcing"?

If I have been supposedly "forcing" BELIEFS here, then it should be EXTREMELY EASY for you to POINT THEM OUT.

You believe that absolute Truths comes from the True Self.

But I do NOT believe that. BUT, 'you' BELIEVE 'I' do BELIEVE 'that', correct?

And you believe every such absolute Truth.

What 'absolute Truth' are you referring to here?

You have a ton of insane beliefs.

Do 'I'? Would you care to list some of them?

Also, how many 'beliefs' are there in a 'ton'?

All you do is try to force them onto others.

LOL How do I TRY TO 'force' them onto "others"?

I am just saying when 'you' are OPEN and Honest, then you will SEE the Truth of things, for 'you', the self.

If I was TRYING TO 'force' any thing onto any one, then I would be saying some thing like; "This is what IS TRUE, and now BELIEVE IT". When, in fact, I am doing the EXACT OPPOSITE. I am saying I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY THING. So, I have absolutely NO thing to 'force' onto any one.

You are the one saying things like; "There is NO such thing". "That is CERTAINLY NOT true". "That is TOTALLY incorrect". You are the one who appears to be 'forcing' YOUR BELIEFS onto "others", and expecting them to accept them as being thee Truth of things.

But that is the WHOLE POINT of ALL of this. I DO ALREADY KNOW.

That is WHY you have NOT been able to challenge NOR question me YET about what I say.

What you can do, and have done, though is just TRY TO ridicule me and TELL ME that I am WRONG. But, unfortunately, without ANY evidence provided.

No, you only BELIEVE that you know. But you don't know.

What IS 'it' that you say I do NOT 'know'? 'What' EXACTLY do you BELIEVE I do NOT know?

That's very much deserving of ridicule.

Ridicule all you like.

One's True character is SHOWN through and by their mis/behaviors.

And for example the evidence shows that the observable universe is expanding. That's basic knowledge so stop lying.

I have NEVER said that the 'evidence' does NOT show any thing contrary to what you said here.

All I have asked IS: What is the actual 'evidence' that SHOWS that the Universe is expanding?

Even now you keep saying the 'evidence' shows the observable universe is expanding. I am just asking; What IS that actual 'evidence'?

How much more simple can I make this for you? You say, "The 'evidence' SHOWS ..." I ask, "What is that 'evidence'?

[Age]

A human being with assumptions and beliefs is NOT worth salt. Full stop.

That is your own assumption or belief.

To me, human beings are worth human beings. AND, salt is worth salt. I am NOT sure what you could consider to be an 'assumption' or a 'belief' here.

Would you care to clarify what 'that' is that you see as being my own 'assumption' or 'belief' here?

Is it just possible that I actually have NO assumption nor belief here at all, but I just wrote in a way KNOWING how to make you assume and/or believe some thing? AND, KNOWING that you would EXPRESS your OWN assumption or belief, which I could then use to POINT OUT and SHOW how quickly and easily human beings JUMP to making assumptions and beliefs, and how quickly they are to EXPRESS them, even when the FACT IS there is absolutely NOTHING to base those assumptions and/or beliefs on.

Also, could I have done this to also POINT OUT and SHOW, that NO matter how many times I suggest to ask clarifying questions instead of making assumptions and jumping to conclusions, which are then BELIEVED to be true, the opposite will be carried out?

Adult human being really do prefer to assume and believe AND to assume and believe that they already KNOW the Truth of things instead of just doing what is, after all, the very most basic natural thing of being human, which is; to just be OPEN and curious. Instead of being OPEN and curious and ask clarifying questions in order to obtain the actual and real Truth of things, adult human beings really prefer to just ASSUME and BELIEVE that they already know what is True, Right, and Correct.

A Truly intelligent human being does NOT have assumptions nor beliefs.

Well, yer kinda ruled yourself out then.

I NEVER even ruled my self in.

A Truly intelligent human being would have already known better than to go to a philosophy forum and expect to be challenged and/or questioned for clarity regarding their VIEW/S.

Demonstrate it then.

You've done it for us.

Provide 'evidence' then of where I have supposedly demonstrated this. Then I at least am given a chance to respond to SOME thing.

First EXPLAIN what 'it' IS, EXACTLY.

Then provide 'evidence' of when I have supposedly demonstrated that I have NOT "got it".

THEN, I can discuss this with you, AND THEN we CAN see just how much Truth there is in what you are alluding to.

Until then you are just making an accusation about what I have NOT yet "got" without any actual 'evidence' to support what you are thinking/believing. We do NOT even, in real terms, actually yet KNOW what you are actually talking about EXACTLY.

Oh and by the way you not to long ago expressed: Oh and by the way, this is what this f@€king thread is about: https://willybouwman.blogspot.com NOW, would you like to discuss this? OR, would you just like to carry on LOOKING AT 'me' instead?

You have made it clear that you BELIEVE that the Universe is expanding. Now, would you like to clear up for me what ACTUAL 'evidence' is there that the Universe IS expanding?

Once this 'evidence' is brought out in the OPEN and so comes-to-light for ALL to SEE, then we can start to LOOK AT 'it' AND discuss 'it'. Until then all we have is you expressing your BELIEF that 'the Universe is expanding', and when questioned about what is the ACTUAL 'evidence' you have for this, all you can give us is, "Because it is written in a book", and, "Because the "expert/s" say it is so".

Until you provide the actual 'evidence' that you say 'proves' that 'the Universe is expanding', then all you are doing is acting like "religious" people do when they say the 'evidence' and 'proof' for things is, "Because it is written", and, "Because the "expert/s" say it is so". Until ACTUAL 'evidence' is provided, 'you' are being NO different from 'them'.

REALLY, what is so hard about just saying what the ACTUAL is that the Universe is expanding?

Surely the actual evidence must of been explained in those books that you read, OR, do you just BELIEVE things happen because "It is written" that 'it happens', in those books that you look up to and worship?

[Age]

The term atheist refers to a human being with a BELIEF. For the very reason you just gave. So if the person labelled surreptitious
57 then that person has and holds A or does BELIEF which is actually contrary to what that same person clearly expresses

This is not true because I dont believe in anything at all - I either know something is true or think it is true
There is nothing I simply believe to be true. In the case of God I dont believe in him so the question of belief does not arise
Its more accurate to say I dont think God exists because I prefer not to use the words believe / belief where I am concerned

SO, IF it is more accurate to express 'I do NOT think God exists' than to express 'I do NOT believe God exists', then SURELY expressing 'that' which is MORE true, MORE right, and/or MORE accurate/correct would be a 'better' thing to do? But it is YOUR decision.

Just remember that if you say things like I do NOT 'believe' some thing, then to me that IS A BELIEF also, which I will, if I feel like, question you about, for clarity.

But if you have already NOTICED the difference, by your self, which you have just expressed, then you could possibly also SEE HOW the actual and real Truth of things is inside US ALL.

WHEN people are OPEN and Honest, then that is WHERE the Truth of things lays.

[Age]

Also saying my views are WRONG because I am a moron

Please do not mention this ever again in any response to me.

I CERTAINLY did NOT mean for that to be in relation to 'you', surreptitious57, at all.

I was purposely writing the words 'you people' in an attempt to make it CLEAR that that line was NOT directed at "surrptitious57" at all, who has CLEARLY NEVER expressed ANY thing like this at all towards me. It was direct at "others" who have clearly expressed this.

I KNOW you have NEVER based your views on the character of 'me', and from all accounts probably would NOT. I was just adding what some people do and have been doing for thousands of years to TRY TO "reject" what "another" is saying.

I have never said this about you and you therefore had no need to mention it here. Save it for those who have actually called you this

As I said I was just 'adding it in' with the the other ways that 'people' do things to TRY TO attack/refute what "another" is saying.

[surreptitious57]

SO IF it is more accurate to express I do NOT think God exists than to express I do NOT believe God exists then SURELY expressing that which is MORE true MORE right and / or MORE accurate / correct would be a better thing to do

I totally agree but sometimes dont bother for reasons of habit unless I actually have to clarify - such as with you here for example
So I dont do belief of any kind and equally dont do non belief either even though these terms are invariably used in relation to God
Sometimes I may use believe as a synonym for know but that is a habit I am very quickly getting myself out of and permanently too

There are things I know or think I know and equally things I dont know or think I dont know - this is the totality of all that I know / dont know
Nowhere do the words believe or belief appear so when I say I do dont do belief or non belief its true - even if I dont always avoid such terms

So if you ever ask me again do I believe in God I may say no I dont believe in God simply because you used the word believe in your question
A more accurate answer would be : I dont know if God exists or not but I dont think that he does - but I dont believe in God is just easy to say

You also asked why God is referred to as he - its simply the pronoun of choice - but how someone wishes to reference God is entirely up to them