Why is nazism popular today?

[Immanuel Can]

The more important point is that volitional freedom is possible. You can choose what you do with what you've got.

What would convince you of the alternative hypothesis?

If the alternative hypothesis were true, it would not be possible for anyone to "convince" anyone of anything. But I see you do expect to convince, so your assumption must be that freedom exists such that people can be convinced of things.

That's not even controversial...or particularly worthy of note.

Why did you expect it to be controversial? It is the most fundamental problem across all complexity theory.
Figuring out which things you have control over and which things you don't.

It's trivial because even your phrase "things you have control over and which things you don't" presumes already you have control of some "things." So there's no controversy: you must be presuming some level of freedom exists. And that's what I said all along.

[Logik]

It's trivial because even your phrase "things you have control over and which things you don't" presumes already you have control of some "things." So there's no controversy: you must be presuming some level of freedom exists. And that's what I said all along.

I use "freedom" in the statistical sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_o ... tatistics)

You clearly don't understand statistics, so which sense are you using it in?

[Immanuel Can]

which sense are you using it in?

Volitional. I said nothing about "statistical freedom."

[Logik]

If the alternative hypothesis were true, it would not be possible for anyone to "convince" anyone of anything. But I see you do expect to convince, so your assumption must be that freedom exists such that people can be convinced of things..

Nonsense. There are two hypothesis here.

A. You can convince me.
B. I can convince you.

Which one is true?
P(A) > P(B)
P(B) > P(A)

It's not about "freedom existing or not existing". It's about HOW MUCH FREEDOM. It's a continuum.

Hence: Degrees of freedom.

[Logik]

which sense are you using it in?

Volitional. I said nothing about "statistical freedom."

Would you say volitional freedom is a boolean? Either you have it or not?
Or would you say that it exist on a continuum?

[Immanuel Can]

It's not about "freedom existing or not existing". It's about HOW MUCH FREEDOM. It's a continuum.

Oh, gosh.

Okay, well, you seem to have quite a different idea of what we're arguing here. I was under the impression you were arguing against the existence of volitional freedom at all. It's evident now that you're not.

So we're not arguing.

[Logik]

Okay, well, you seem to have quite a different idea of what we're arguing here. I was under the impression you were arguing against the existence of volitional freedom at all. It's evident now that you're not.

So we're not arguing.

Oh ok then.

So are you claiming that having one option is the same as having 50? Freedom is freedom!

Because you ALWAYS have at least one choice: suicide. Yay! Freedom.

What I mean by "freedom" is maximizing optionality.

[Immanuel Can]

Okay, well, you seem to have quite a different idea of what we're arguing here. I was under the impression you were arguing against the existence of volitional freedom at all. It's evident now that you're not.

So we're not arguing.

Oh ok then.

So are you claiming that having one option is the same as having 50? Freedom is freedom!

No. I was saying that if you have volitional freedom, you have freedom.

What I mean by "freedom" is maximizing optionality.

"Maximizing" or "total"? I think you'd have to say "total," because it's awfully hard to quantify "maximal." How does one know when he/she has reached the point of "maximality"? And who says one is even entitled to that, if one were to demand it?

But total freedom...nobody's got that. It doesn't mean, however, that we don't have minimal or even optimal freedom. "Maximal," well nobody even knows what maximal freedom means.

[Logik]

No. I was saying that if you have volitional freedom, you have freedom.

You have the volitional freedom to commit suicide. In the event that you can't feed yourself in a capitalistic society.

Is that freedom

"Maximizing" or "total"? I think you'd have to say "total," because it's awfully hard to quantify "maximal." How does one know when he/she has reached the point of "maximality"? And who says one is even entitled to that, if one were to demand it?

Where did I use "total"?

Having 5 options makes you "more free" than somebody who has 4.

If I can survive without earning any income for 10 years, but you can only do it for 1 - I am more free than you.
If I can make $1mil gambles and you can't - I am more free than you.

I don't even know why you are mentioning entitlement. I am merely pointing out the meaning of "Degrees of freedom".

The statistical meaning as well as its material/consequential implications.

[henry quirk]

[-1-]

True. I am Jewish, and I was born ten years after the war.

interesting, did not you were Jewish.

what is your view of the Facist State of Israel?

If any Israeli Jew found out my true feelings about the state of Israel, I'd be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot.

Israel and the local Arab population were thrown into an impossible situation by forcing them to accept the status quo of an impass.

They both claimed the same land. This ought not to have been allowed by the Powers that Be. They should have declared firm borders and divided the people around those borders. This was not done properly, and an everlasting war-like state has been created because of it.

Now the Israeli Jews and the local and surrounding Arabs hate each other with all their might. Land disputes led to feuds, to blood feuds. People got out of it alive by having extremities chopped off, blinded, deafened, tortured. Both sides are guilty and guilty the same way.

Israel is called "fascist" because it has the upper hand on Israel's actual territory, and a bit over, in Arab territories, just to protect itself. But the tactics, methods and strategy of the Israeli state is the same as those of the surrounding lands: kill those who are the biggest threat, chop extremities off of people to show a sign to others, keep the status quo, never give in.

Now, with regard to Israel's immigration policies: yes, it is racist, inasmuch as it only allows Jews to immigrate (as far as I know). But that's the mandate of the land: for 2000 years (nearly) a nation state survived with only being a nation, but not having a state. Now they got a state, and it's for THEIR nation. (Our nation.) Exclusively. It's a reward on one hand for steadfastly hanging on to an inconvenient nationality (no land ownership allowed, pogroms galore, Holocaust, general discrimination) and on the other hand it's a reparation for the Holocaust and for the nearly 2000 years of abuse prior to the Holocaust.

[Immanuel Can]

what is your view of the Facist State of Israel?

Why is everyone so keen on hating Israel?

I know full well their state policy on Christians. And yeah, it's wrong, and they should change it; however, I have to admit it's a good deal better than the policy of the Syrians or Saudis. As for human rights, it isn't even close which nation you'd pick.

I also want to know how many "Palestinian" people have been invited to immigrate to the rich Arab nations on every side...oh, wait...that would be none. But Israel allows Palestinians to live within its borders, even though they left Israel to get wiped out by seven other countries...so what's so "fascist" about that?

And why are all these UN resolutions made against Israel, when none are made against places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, etc., who have vicious anti-human-rights regimes, have expelled all their Jews and routinely persecute Christians and other dissenters? Or there's the World Cup being given to Qatar, and they're literally building it with slave labour and killing all kinds of people, and nobody really cares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWd3-Xt-Bmc

Something very unbalanced is going on there.

[gaffo]

True. I am Jewish, and I was born ten years after the war.

interesting, did not you were Jewish.

what is your view of the Facist State of Israel?

If any Israeli Jew found out my true feelings about the state of Israel, I'd be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot.

Israel and the local Arab population were thrown into an impossible situation by forcing them to accept the status quo of an impass.

They both claimed the same land. This ought not to have been allowed by the Powers that Be. They should have declared firm borders and divided the people around those borders. This was not done properly, and an everlasting war-like state has been created because of it.

Now the Israeli Jews and the local and surrounding Arabs hate each other with all their might. Land disputes led to feuds, to blood feuds. People got out of it alive by having extremities chopped off, blinded, deafened, tortured. Both sides are guilty and guilty the same way.

Israel is called "fascist" because it has the upper hand on Israel's actual territory, and a bit over, in Arab territories, just to protect itself. But the tactics, methods and strategy of the Israeli state is the same as those of the surrounding lands: kill those who are the biggest threat, chop extremities off of people to show a sign to others, keep the status quo, never give in.

Now, with regard to Israel's immigration policies: yes, it is racist, inasmuch as it only allows Jews to immigrate (as far as I know). But that's the mandate of the land: for 2000 years (nearly) a nation state survived with only being a nation, but not having a state. Now they got a state, and it's for THEIR nation. (Our nation.) Exclusively. It's a reward on one hand for steadfastly hanging on to an inconvenient nationality (no land ownership allowed, pogroms galore, Holocaust, general discrimination) and on the other hand it's a reparation for the Holocaust and for the nearly 2000 years of abuse prior to the Holocaust.

Thank for your humanity and views - same as mine in the matter. it really is and has always been about the illegal occupation and mal treatment if 1.8 million palis in WB and Gaza (thuogh the latter is not just "cut out of ownership" (still be defualt owned by Irsael IMO).

thanks again, and peace to ya, thanks for reply Sir.

[gaffo]

what is your view of the Facist State of Israel?

Why is everyone so keen on hating Israel?

because of the illegal 50 yrs now occupation of the Westbank.

under Geneva Accords (which Israel is a signatory).

when a nation take land from another nation via war, the former must soon make preparations to allow folks conquered to become citizens of the newly occupied lands - voting rights, citizenship rights, equal rights, etc.

OR, if the newly conquering nations does not allow this they must leave said lands.

it is illegal under the Geneva Accords to invade and take lands, then dissallow the folks conquered to become citizens. it is also illegal to re-settle folks from the "nation proper" to "squat" there, give them full rights of citizenship of conquering nation, while not allowing the same of the folks living there prior to the invasion.

since Israel refuses to give Israeli citizenship to Westbank Palistinians, while re-settling Judiac ones in the same land and give the latter full citizenship, under the Geneva Accords Israel must leave the WB.

She refuses, and so is in violation of the treaty she is a signatory of!

I know full well their state policy on Christians. And yeah, it's wrong, and they should change it; however, I have to admit it's a good deal better than the policy of the Syrians or Saudis. As for human rights, it isn't even close which nation you'd pick.

Comparing the low bars of Israel's neighors when we give so much more $$ to Israel and not nearly as much to all the "low bar" arab states - matters to me. I'd like to see us cut of money to Israel myself.

I also want to know how many "Palestinian" people have been invited to immigrate to the rich Arab nations on every side...oh, wait...that would be none.

and why should they? Israel owns the people (palistians) and the land now.

you want to open the US borders and allow all the Central Americans to just move up here due to thier plight in thier native lands? 2 million of them? I don't.

nor to i think the Arab Nations should be obligated to either.

I agree with Colin Powell, "you break it the own it" Israel owns the WB and all the natives living there - its their duty to address it morally! - give all there full Israeli citizenship.

if the means Israel will no longer be a Jewish Majority, well too bad, they should have though of that prior to illegally invading the occupying the land!

too bad so sad.

But Israel allows Palestinians to live within its borders,

yes 20-percent of Israelis are Palitinians with almost full rights is Israeli citizens.

good

and?

no relevant!

not when "Irsael" is ALSO the westbank they occupy and 3/4 million there have full Israeli citizenship rights, and 1.8 million in the same land do not!

even though they left Israel to get wiped out by seven other countries...so what's so "fascist" about that?

????? the 20-pecent never left Israel, and why they have rights. the other 1.8 million never left, but just lived in lands 30 miles east of Israel proper (westbank) - they, as said never left either, but have no rights since 1967.

of the ones that left (most in 48, some in 67), they are now living in refuge camps in Jordan.

??

i think your understanding of history may be lacking.

And why are all these UN resolutions made against Israel, when none are made against places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, etc.,

UN is not partisan, they have condemned the arab nations for violations too.

not sure why you think they have not!

who have vicious anti-human-rights regimes,

yes they do.

have expelled all their Jews and routinely persecute Christians and other dissenters?

yep, no excuse, and most of those nations are also signatories of the 4th Geneva Accords and are in violation of it.

Or there's the World Cup being given to Qatar, and they're literally building it with slave labour and killing all kinds of people, and nobody really cares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWd3-Xt-Bmc

same with Kuwait, there they import Indians, Sci Lankans, as laborors - many now living there for generations - never allowing them citizenship.

Something very unbalanced is going on there.

yes there is - but not in the way you think (you seem to think the Arab nations have the free pass (and they do to a degree due to the OIL and US interests) - but the bigger bias is the free-pass you (and US) give to Israel - which - per under the WB policy IS WORSE than those Arab Nations piss poor human rights records.

yes, due the WB policy Israel have, she is WORSE than the Saudis, Iranians and Syrians.

thanks for reply though.

[gaffo]

Israel is now equal to Apartied South Africa.

no difference

its that simple and clear