Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

[Age]

It's a whole lot of noise. I think such noise is a sign of the deepest kind of self-indulgent and self-deceiving intoxication.

I wouldn't worry about noise

Clearly you don't.

A still mind is like a still wind...and of course we all know you know that by your constant need to be intoxicatingly self-indulgent with your obbessive opinions about how other people choose to express their quest for truth, that has nothing to do with you personally whatsoever.

Right, so... what's your point? Is this not the place to challenge the claims people make,

I thought in a 'philosophy' forum of all places this would be a place to challenge the claims people make. Unfortunately though I find this rarely ever happens.

An example of what usually happens instead is in the next quote.

as well as pointing out their crazy crap and inconsistencies?

When you judge others writings as "crazy crap" is this based on an actual and real factual evidence, or just on your own actual assumptions and beliefs?

Is it possible that what you perceive as being "crazy crap" could actually hold actual and real Truth to it? Or is this just NOT possible at all?

Also IF perceived inconsistencies are to be pointed out, then just pointing them out by saying there are inconsistencies is NOT the best way of doing this. Pointing them out by writing them down again, and then explaining HOW and WHY they are inconsistent, from YOUR perspective is a much being way of SHOWING what you SEE but "others" have not YET.

Do you think this is just a one-way stage, where people should sit silent and in awe, regardless of the stuff being spewed? Don't we learn and evolve from the feedback we give and get? I know you don't like my feedback. Even if feisty, I really do wish you well!

[Logik]

I thought in a 'philosophy' forum of all places this would be a place to challenge the claims people make. Unfortunately though I find this rarely ever happens.

This is precisely what's happening!

Your claim that "you are here to learn how to communicate" is being challenged. Because you are doing the exact opposite of what you've claimed.

You are trying to force others to adopt your language/way of thinking/seeing the world e.g you are forcing others to learn to communicate with you, rather than you learning to communicate with them.

And even in your paragraph above, you are desperately trying to leverage "guilt" as an instrument of control over others.

You are perfectly happy to challenge everybody else's claims. But you fight tooth and nail to protect your own claims from being challenged.

[Dontaskme]

I, however, neither BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE any thing

If you don't believe anything, then there's no requirement to not believe what you already don't believe is there?

It's true that one aka the ( I )doesn't need the belief they are, they simply are, no belief is needed. This simple fact of being is the divine oxymoron that is a no position position.

But as soon as that position of no position is taken up by the knowledge that someone else can have a belief then you've artificially superimposed a belief on your no belief position.

You cannot know if another person has a belief while at the same time denying yourself of all belief...all you are doing is creating the idea of there existing a belief that others can have without realising that the seed of thought that others can have a belief is manifesting in you yourself, that you then planted in another...the seed of belief that someone else can have a belief came from you, you created the idea, not someone else...and then you project your own seed of thought which is just an assumption onto others saying it's theirs...denying it's yours..well done Age, that makes perfect sense doesn't it?

So that idea about a belief belonging to someone has come from you, the you that denies it has a belief, and yet assumes others can have one...the assumption is a projection of your own belief that other people have a belief...that's your own assumption, it does not belong to another.

So in essence Age, you are not making any sense are you when you say you have no belief, because it's you who is making up the idea in the first place, the idea of belief belongs to you... it's your own grown concept....that you then deny having...you remind me of someone trying to wash away blood using blood.

.

.

[Age]

Don't worry, you people won long ago, decades or centuries ago. No one can save the world now, we will almost certainly all die soon, I hope that makes you happy.

Well thankfully, thanks to the study of non-duality

Finally. I asked you some time ago now, when I first came in this forum, how you came to know what you are saying in here. You would NEVER clarify this for me, but now I finally know. Thanks.

[Age]

I don't think all nondualists do that. I think nondualists on this forum tend to do that. It's quite obvious in the way they phrase things, which positions themselves as "knowers"... and others as "not knowing", yet in nonduality there would be no "others". From what I've seen, there is more "separateness" in their presentations than they want to admit to, and they use nonduality as a cloak to dart behind when it suits them.

Nonduality sort of has two awakenings, but people like DAM, Nick, Age etc. have only gone through the first one (or not even that).

What do you mean that "age" has only gone through the first awakening of nonduality (or not even that).

i have had NOTHING whatsoever to do with nonduality. I had NEVER even heard the term when i first entered this forum.

Now they are stuck in limbo in all kinds of half-crazy states, these traps are quite typical. Not going all the way with the awakening process is usually worse than not starting it at all.

WHAT "awakening" process are you referring to?

It is true that we nondualists are "knowers", we do know something that ~98-99% of people in Western cultures do not, namely what our "true nature" is. But after the second awakening we are led back to reality, to the world of (apparent) separateness, with an ego. I would say the majority, especially the ones coming from the Advaita angle, never make it to the second stage (the Buddhists are better at this).

[Age]

were you taught anything about yourself being divine? were you taught that there is no separate self, and that the separate self was an illusion, not that it didn't exist, but it existed as an illusion?

I don't use those particular phrases, but I agree with them. From my very earliest thoughts and intuition as a child, I felt that I belong... and that all is divine... and (eventually I could put into words) that separation is an illusion. This was not taught to me. If anything, it was discouraged in favor of worshiping some sort of god.

Often, when people spend a lot of energy on self-improvement or expanding their awareness, they are blown away by what they discover, and they want to tell everyone. We may think that the same particular method must be used to "get there". But what kind of persnickety Universe would that be?! Surely there is NO SINGLE PATH to get anywhere.

Are you proposing this as an ABSOLUTE SURETY?

Maybe, if you provide an example of one place where you think this statement might apply, then we can take a good hard LOOK AT it, and then discuss? What do you think about doing this? Where is one place, state, or anywhere else where you think/believe that there is NO SINGLE PATH to get to?

And each of us are capable of a vast range of degrees of awareness regardless of any study or platform we may say we align with.

Agree.

Gaining FULL self AND Self Awareness (Consciousness) can be obtained just by being completely Honest, Open, and Wanting to change, for the better.

that's what non-duality is all about, it's about coming into alignment with your divine self. It's very humbling.

I think it's valuable to be careful and stay aware, because the ego is so clever at contorting things into self-service. If we want to truly be transmitting and receiving in clarity, we have to stay self-aware of our human trickery and fear.

Also, on the subject of naturally understanding something, do you naturally understand that there is actually nothing to understand?
This is a whole new course of study, a discourse often over looked...you see?

Yes. I think such an understanding offers more of an enhancement/empowerment to my capability and clarity, rather than being something I would dive into and "study". I simply embrace being human on Earth while feeling that ALL IS WELL and complete. There is nothing I need to do or know... it's all play.

This is why I don't think anyone needs to be telling me HOW to do it.

Telling you HOW to do WHAT exactly?

Why do you come across as though you think that "others" are continually telling you HOW to do "it" (some thing)?

You, as an adult human being, are FREE to choose whatever you want to do, correct?

If yes, then this would include choosing to listen to, or NOT listen to, what "others" may or may not be saying, right?

WHY would anyone even begin to think that anyone does NEED to be telling 'them' HOW to do it (whatever "it" is)?

WHY can 'you' NOT just read/listen without thinking that another one is telling you how to do some thing.

Whenever I have expressed what I have done, or what I have SEEN from what I did, you come in as though I am telling you HOW to do some thing, which is so far from the Truth. This is WHY I continually ask to clarify WHERE are you getting this perception FROM exactly.

I love hearing about possibilities, I'm just wary of people's obsessions, because it always seems to have too much of their stuff mixed in.

Is it POSSIBLE that some one could POSSIBLY SHOW you a way to a Truly loving and peaceful world in which absolutely EVERY one is living in harmony, with one "another", as One?

Or is that just NOT possible?

The reason previous discussions were pointless from my perspective was because you were inconsistent: operating from duality in some regards, and then spinning off into nonduality when challenged about your duality. It seemed dishonest and untrustworthy.

Okay, I will try to address those flaws in future dialog.

Wonderful! I will respond politely!

Using nonduality to avoid accountability is not an impressive use of it -- rather, it just shows the sneaky depths people can go to, and how they can corrupt anything.

Hmm, but you see I don't think that's actually what is going on inside the nondualists mind, speaking for myself so to speak, but then if that's what's being perceived, then okay, we'll work on presenting this knowledge a whole lot better.

I'm glad you are seeing a positive use for my feedback. That's my greatest hope in offering it... even though I'm having fun with it too.

Let the party begin...all are invited, and remember to be friendly,and kind to yourselves.

Sounds good!

[Age]

But after the second awakening we are led back to reality, to the world of (apparent) separateness, with an ego. I would say the majority, especially the ones coming from the Advaita angle, never make it to the second stage (the Buddhists are better at this).

Here's a handy litmus test for ego:

Show somebody a photo of themselves. Ask them what they see.

The number of times I've heard "I see a loving husband", "A business woman", "a happy smile", "a no-bullshit tough son of a bitch blah blah blah" .

So many people narrate their self-image/identity. None of them see simply themselves.

What is the number of times you have heard such things?

How often do "you" show human beings are photo of that body, and ask them what do they see?

When "you" say "none of them see simply themselves could this be because they do NOT see the human body as themselves, which would make sense from a realistic and True perspective?

[Dontaskme]

Egos and religious mindsets are front and center much of the time. To deny that makes such people liars.

Well it is what it is, I don't really judge it myself, it's just what the human does with it's time, it talks about stuff, any stuff that interests it.

Really? You don't notice when people are making false claims... and that doesn't have an effect on their credibility for you? You just hear all talk as the same?

Any truth claim uttered is a false claim, but there is nothing wrong with a false claim ..it's a part of the dance that is life living itself..there appears in this play a character that makes a false claim....or not. It's doesn't matter for the one who sees through the illusion of separation, those people do not seek credibilty or fame..they see there is no claimer, no blamer hence no fame...except in the story. We all have our story to tell Lacewing.

Obviously they play the game of claim and blame and fame seeking, that's the other side of the story, we are all actors on the stage of life. Life is infinite in expression anything can appear/happen. Expression is unlimited, it's infinite in expression...nothing is excluded.

It's one thing to talk about nonduality -- it's another thing to pretend to embody it from some fake superior platform while talking to other people...

Not intended, but if that's how it's percieved then what to do about it, but heed the feedback off the reader and explain to the reader that there was no intention there of what was being percieved by the reader.

I don't think all nondualists do that. I think nondualists on this forum tend to do that. It's quite obvious in the way they phrase things, which positions themselves as "knowers"... and others as "not knowing", yet in nonduality there would be no "others". From what I've seen, there is more "separateness" in their presentations than they want to admit to, and they use nonduality as a cloak to dart behind when it suits them.

But this is just your opinion..
I think you just maybe overthink this nondual language Lacewing. What you percieve to be the case cannot be proved to be the case, it's just how you are perceiving the message. The thing is, it's a weird thing to talk about, but only those that have studied non-duality for a long time will understand what another nondualist is saying...Notice nondualists never really challenge other nondualists because they know there is no one there to bounce off.

All knowledge is perceived differently, it's just a message informing ...it's never about the messenger, the messenger is just doing the best it can in providing the message..the message is there to be discerned ...there is no point pointing out errors in the messenger, we either accept the message or reject it..it's really that simple.
Non-dual speakers repeat over and over that there is here only not-knowing knowing and that YOU ARE that KNOWING...not that it belongs to a ''someone''...knowledge belongs to everyone and noone.

For some reason, topics that involve some kind of awareness potential, get my attention if it appears that they are being used dishonestly. Whereas I don't care as much about people being dishonest with politics -- that's just part of the landscape. But any topic that is represented as "higher thinking" needs to have higher standards and accountability... it seems to me... and people should not be representing themselves as knowers and experts.

But they are not actually doing that...are they acting like they are experts? ..isn't that just your opinion? I suppose they could put up a disclaimer at the bottom of their post stating that the message in this post is in no way the absolute truth and that there is no way it is coming from an expert who has superior knowledge over and above anyone else...

Everyone has the same capcity to know exactly what they want to know, no one has overall authority or monopoly over knowledge...especially non dual knowledge..aka advaita vedanta...the end of knowledge.

Then the nondualist should EASILY be able to clarify when they are challenged on this. Instead, their ego dances a dance of separation, and uses this platform to stroke itself. This has been played out over and over. Nonduality wouldn't need to do that... ego would. It seems "dangerous" to me that people misuse awareness in this way. Like religion... when self-serving.

That's just more opinion. I would never make that opinion about nonduality speakers because I get what they are speaking about. So wouldn't feel the need to judge.

Nonduality is freedom in every minute, there is nothing experiencing this freedom but freedom itself. Judging and preferences of what should and shouldn't be, what is right or wrong belongs to the chattering monkey mind. The ego...but nothing wrong with that either, it's just freedom expressing itself...part of the dance of life.

Okay... then again, the nondualist should be able to acknowledge that when challenged, rather than denying that their ego is in play. Otherwise, their awareness is no clearer than a dualist. If there is not consistency and accountability, then what is it?

I don't understand why you seem to believe the nondualist denies the ego existing, that's just not what is being pointed to in the message.

Nondual awareness (who you are) looks on in detachment at the appearances, the action figures in the play....the play is just what it is, there's no player (ego character) without an audience (awareness), and no audience (awareness) without a player (ego character)... Nothing is being excluded here.

You are both the player and the watcher of the player in the play you are appearing in...the dreamer and the dream.

.

[Age]

I have continually expressed that I am here in this forum to LEARN how to communicate better.

I have NOT had much dealings nor communications with human beings prior to this, so there is a great deal for Me to learn from human beings in this regard.

The more I am taught in regarding communication with human beings, then the better I become.

Well , I can tell you one thing, trying to come across as the "impersonate" Absolute is a sure recipe to break down every discussion into meaninglessness.

WHY? Is there some sort of BELIEF that does NOT allow you to ask clarifying questions?

Clarifying questions can LEAD to find great meaning.

You seem to "believe" ... ah.. sorry, I know you don't like this word - then again, you don't have any preferences regarding words... then again... maybe I should better write: There seems to be the view that the ONE is separate from us, poor human beings, and that this ONE has to learn how to better communicate with these beings... There also seems to be the view that the ONE can learn how to do this from these human beings.

SEE, when my words are finally taken for what they ARE and MEAN, then you will realize that all I am doing is expressing a VIEW, and that all these VIEWS are NOT beliefs nor believed to be true, right, nor correct. They are just VIEWS, which IS the preference word that I use.

Hopefully that sticks now.

Now, the One is NOT separate from us, poor human beings, (the use of the emotive word 'poor' here to evoke some thing was really unnecessary), anyhow, this One ONLY came to KNOW thy Self, from and through human beings. The human brain had to evolve enough in order for the One to become Truly Conscious and Aware of Its own Self. So, there is NO separation, nor poorness nor richness of one over the "other". Although the One IS the only One, human beings have been absolutely necessary for the One to KNOW HOW and WHY It is the One.

i, this human being, is a very slow and simple person who from birth never learned how to be heard by "others" thus does NOT know how to communicate with "them" properly and clearly. The One also has NOT learned how to be heard nor listened to FULLY by human beings, although at times I am heard and listened to perfectly CLEAR by human beings, the message is far more times than not misinterpreted, misunderstood, and/or completely lost. Both i and I have trouble being clearly UNDERSTOOD fully.

Yes it WILL BE human beings who teach the One how to be heard, and listened to, FULLY.

The One can ONLY learn from human beings HOW to communicate with THEM better.

Imagine a race that can NOT speak a human language and arrives on earth, or imagine if you went back in time a few hundred thousand years, and tried to speak to people's who could NOT understand a word you are saying. If you wanted to communicate with "them", would you be better off to keep speaking your words and language, or learning FROM THEM how to better communicate WITH THEM, in THEIR language?

If you want them to UNDERSTAND you best, would it be better to speak to them in their terms, their language and their words, or under your terms, and in your language and with your words?

Is the ONE sure that IT is talking to human beings? Maybe IT is actually talking to ITself?

The One KNOWS who/what EXACTLY It is talking WITH.

Could it be that a "human being" is only a thought-up entity which is part of the ONE's perspective/view?

Absolutely ANY thing is POSSIBLE.

But KNOWING what it IS is better than WONDERING what it COULD BE.

And that maybe this view is not the only True View but simply another part of the regular, if very unusual, perspective labeled "age"?

The True View is ALREADY KNOWN, as has been explained enough times already.

I am happy to continue talking to you, but maybe we can do this as regular people do?

GREAT, but correct me if I am wrong but it was alexw who started with the "you do not even exist" remarks.

TRYING TO talk the non-dual talk BEFORE who/what the small self IS and Who/What the True Self actually IS are discussed, agreed up, accepted, and thus KNOWN was NEVER going to really work.

I don't mind if you think you are talking as the voice of the One, but even the One should talk to human beings in their language, this might actually really teach you how to communicate better.

But it is human beings who TRY TO use the non-dual format and talk like that, which has NEVER really worked.

Also, the last bit of what you wrote here does NOT differ to much at all with what I said above.

There is an old saying: If on a pirate ship, its a good idea to (pretend to) be a pirate.

But WHY pretend?

WHY NOT just be one's Real and True Self ALWAYS.

People only pretend, out of fear, because of judgement and/or punishment.

When the Truth IS there is absolutely NOTHING to fear ANYWAY.

[Dontaskme]

But WHY pretend?

WHY NOT just be one's Real and True Self ALWAYS.

The true self aka the dog will dump it's load of shit on the pavement in full view of all around, especially it's human owner.

Now, as a human, would a human do the same thing and pull down it's trousers and dump it's load of shit on the pavement in front of every other person on that pavement?

Does a person feel self-conscious about doing such an activity ? or would they do it without feeling any sense of self consciousness?
Or do they have to pretend they have self-consciousness?

.

[Age]

But if any one is TRYING TO express any thing from an ABSOLUTE perspective

Guess you are referring to our discussions, so let me answer if I may:

I said multiple times: The ABSOLUTE/ONE has no perspective of its own.
Perspectives are for egos - perspectives ARE egos.

So an absolute True perspective of ALL things would be AN Ego also, correct?

All perspectives are known. Who knows them? The one who should (better: can) not be named -- (pun intended).

But the One who can, and DOES, KNOW can be named, by 'I'. (pun may or may not be intended).

Thus I was not ever trying to "express any thing from an ABSOLUTE perspective" - as there is no such perspective.

But is this perspective, "There is no such perspective" and ABSOLUTE perspective, or is it just one of those perspectives on the levels of confusion, which are mentioned in writings under the label "alexw"?

All I was doing is play pirates with you.

Whatever that actually means i do NOT actually know.

Why did we play? We simply did.

Because "we" WANTED TO, obviously.

Why do we now stop? We simply do.

But who is stopping?

Thee I does NOT want to stop.

WHY does "alexw" WANT TO stop?

There is so MUCH MORE to discuss, discover, and/or learn here, so WHY stop NOW?

WHY ever stop discovering and learning?

[Dontaskme]

But WHY pretend?

WHY NOT just be one's Real and True Self ALWAYS.

People only pretend, out of fear, because of judgement and/or punishment.

When the Truth IS there is absolutely NOTHING to fear ANYWAY.

Fear is important.

Even birds and mice fake their deaths, play dead out of fear at the thought of being eaten by a cat.

If fear ends you die.

Why?

The unconscious self knows no death, the conscious self knows death and it doesn't want to die, it is unconscious of there being no such state as death, but is conscious of impending death. The conscious state is knowing. The unconscious state is not-knowing, both knowing and not knowing are present in the same instant...else reality wouldn't work the way it does.

The fear is innate in every living thing, it's there by design, designed by infinite intelligence, there has to be fear present and that's what keeps this whole dynamic of living ..living... and not being killed off in droves.

There is just far too much going on in life to explain it all...explaining everything would take an eternity to explain it all.
Everything is constantly changing, so as soon as something is explained, it changes dynamic, and a new explanation is needed.

.

[Lacewing]

Surely there is NO SINGLE PATH to get anywhere.

Are you proposing this as an ABSOLUTE SURETY? Maybe, if you provide an example of one place where you think this statement might apply, then we can take a good hard LOOK AT it, and then discuss? What do you think about doing this? Where is one place, state, or anywhere else where you think/believe that there is NO SINGLE PATH to get to?

If you disagree, maybe you can provide an example of one place where you think this statement might NOT apply? Where is one place, state, or anywhere else where you think/believe that there is a SINGLE PATH to get to? Then we can take a good hard LOOK AT it.

I simply embrace being human on Earth while feeling that ALL IS WELL and complete. There is nothing I need to do or know... it's all play. This is why I don't think anyone needs to be telling me HOW to do it.

Telling you HOW to do WHAT exactly?

How to understand nonduality by following a certain path.

Why do you come across as though you think that "others" are continually telling you HOW to do "it" (some thing)? You, as an adult human being, are FREE to choose whatever you want to do, correct?

Don't worry, I don't feel pressured. My phrasing points to the way that people think they "know" a way to be/think/know that "others" should be/think/know, and so they tell those others how to be/think/know like they (themselves) do. Like the way you continually urge people to communicate on your terms...the way you think they should...the way you think is the right way to do it.

WHY can 'you' NOT just read/listen without thinking that another one is telling you how to do some thing.

WHY can 'you' NOT just read/listen without thinking that another one is doing something which they're actually not doing?

Whenever I have expressed what I have done, or what I have SEEN from what I did, you come in as though I am telling you HOW to do some thing, which is so far from the Truth. This is WHY I continually ask to clarify WHERE are you getting this perception FROM exactly.

Maybe you can provide some links or examples to where you think this occurred? Where/when were you expressing about yourself, and I thought that you were telling me how to do something? Maybe we will see that you were making inaccurate assumptions/assessments about the person you were talking to, or comparing what you do (as right) with what another does (as wrong).

Is it POSSIBLE that some one could POSSIBLY SHOW you a way to a Truly loving and peaceful world in which absolutely EVERY one is living in harmony, with one "another", as One?

Sure. Do you think it is necessary? Is there something not in complete order right now?

[Age]

It's a whole lot of noise.

If all you see and hear is a whole lot of "noise", then so be it. Just maybe you are NOT looking and listening properly?

Just maybe you really are making a whole lot of noise.

Maybe I am but without any reference to any actual part, then we will NEVER know.

When "noise" comes from the one and only True Self, then I can be as Self-indulgent as I want to be.

Well, yes, you are very self-indulgent...

Are you aware that self-indulgent IS DIFFERENT from Self-indulgent?

and no, it doesn't seem dependent on any particular claim you make.

Another attempt at accusing me of some thing, but NEVER having to actually provide any example, let alone any actual evidence for YOUR claims.

The noise one hears and sees might be the noise from their own small self and NOT the noise from the True Self.

Or it might really be noise from people like you.

Again until you point out the actual noise you hear, we will NEVER know if the noise is from this small self or from thee True Self, Its Self.

If you do NOT show any thing, then there is literally nothing to LOOK AT.

If "noise' is self-deceiving or not, then this will have to wait to be SEEN, which will be soon enough anyway.

Some people are living fully in the current moment and have no interest in waiting or depending on fantasy timelines.

But for those who are waiting to SEE if there is any actual noise, or if it is just a distorted sound within "lacewing" only, some thing has to be produced and SHOWN first.

Instead of just saying " "noise" reveals much to the contrary" why do you NOT just point out WHERE the actual falsity, wrongness, and/or incorrectness IS?

The tendency of your tedious questioning seems to show that you are so obsessively fixated on debating little details, you completely miss or avoid a broader picture being pointed out to you.

But I do NOT do debate. As debating is completely unnecessary and is a huge cause of conflict and resentment within the "world".

Debating causes separation.

Finding agreement creates unity, which is what I do.

Do you seriously not recognize the noise you make?

Do you seriously NOT recognize the noise you make?

You should it is deafening from this perspective.

Yes, we all make noise to different degrees.

Thank you. So WHY can you NOT recognize the noise YOU yourself continually MAKE?

Is it because OBVIOUSLY we would NOT say what we say if we RECOGNIZED and KNEW the noise that we make?

If you are NOT aware we NEED each other to SHOW us WHERE we are WRONG and INCORRECT. We NEED each other to point out the noise we ALL make.

You did NOT really BELIEVE that each person ALREADY KNOWS the noise they are about to make BEFORE they make it, did you?

You seem especially noisy, which is why I pointed it out.

So what? That does NOT stop you one bit from pointing out the actual noise I make, TO YOU. Nor does it stop you from EXPLAINING exactly WHY it is SO noisy TO YOU.

Again ALL you are doing is just saying "You make noise" WITHOUT any examples nor evidence of and for this.

WHY NOT just give it a try one time and EXPOSE the actual noise that you see AND hear?

You might be very surprised what eventuates from it. I MIGHT actually STOP making noise or at least STOP being so noisy to you.

I obviously can NOT stop what I can NOT recognize, see, and/or hear that I am doing.

This is WHY I NEED to learn HOW to communicate better. I NEED human beings to TELL me WHERE I am WRONG and WHY I am WRONG.

This surely is NOT that hard to understand and DO, is it?

And (to me) such a level of noise suggests a lesser amount of clarity, awareness, understanding, and peaceful acceptance.

Again. absolutely NO idea what this noise IS or COULD BE.

Without reference to any thing in particular for all i know, from your perspective, absolutely EVERY thing i say could be noise to you.

Such manic communication is unnecessary for open and connected minds.

There are NO 'minds'. There is however One (Truly OPEN) Mind.

Is this some of the noise you talk about hearing?

You seem to be in a love affair with your claims and questioning, which is why you repeat them over and over.

I can ONLY question what "another" says. So, if I am asking the same questions, then the same things must be being repeated over and over and/or either I am NOT seeing the answer OR the same questions are NOT being answered.

Yes I may repeat the same claim over and over, but this is because I WANT it to be challenged and questioned. I thrive on being questioned and challenged.

If my obviously 'outrageous' claims are NOT questioned and challenged, then I will wonder WHY, and so repeat them again.

Feel FREE to question and/or challenge absolutely ANY claim I make. The more I am questioned and challenged, then the better for Me.

But just saying some thing like; "You are noisy" is NOT questioning any thing nor challenging any thing at all.

Without ANY thing to reference the noise comment to, for all we KNOW the noise could just be another distorted BELIEF or ASSUMPTION of yours that you are seeing and/or hearing.

But just maybe I do already RECOGNIZE and KNOW exactly what the outcome WILL BE, which I am influencing HERE NOW.

Maybe you're making it all up to entertain yourself.

Maybe or maybe NOT.

I KNOW which one is far more possible, from My perspective.

As I said, some people are living fully in the current moment, which means there is NO outcome to obsess over--there is only NOW.

And is that the same "current moment" NOW that YOU are abusing and killing children IN, while you call it "living fully".

Do you feel fully alive KNOWING that you are abusing and killing children RIGHT NOW, while continuing to destroy the one and ONLY home that you have?

You can WANT to continue ON, exactly as you are NOW. But "others" prefer to LOOK TO seeing HOW they can change, themselves, for the better.

But like I say, you are FREE to choose to do whatever you want to do.

You can KEEP "living fully" and KEEP doing the harm and damage that you are doing RIGHT NOW to innocent human beings if you so WISH TO.

What outcome are you "lacewing" able to recognize?

I don't care. All is in order.

That is the way. DO NOT CARE about the abuse you do to others. What you do to others is just the order of things, right?

That is one way to SHOW complete ignorance of the actual ABUSE you cause and do to others.

If you completely ignore the Truth of the WRONG you do, then you do NOT have to LOOK AT IT. And if you do NOT LOOK AT IT, then you will NEVER SEE, and UNDERSTAND IT also.

there are a multitude of self-deceiving egos also at play, and they are TRYING TO work out what is actually going on HERE.

Yes, that appears to be what you are doing. Have fun with that!

LOL

A perfect example of an ego at work here; Only LOOKING AT what "another" does, and, SEEING only "others" doing WRONG.

OF COURSE that is what appears to 'you' that 'i' am doing. This is because 'you' will NOT LOOK AT what 'you' yourself DO, which is just just the way an self-deceiving ego works.

[Age]

Not going all the way with the awakening process is usually worse than not starting it at all.

I've seen this. People who have discovered just enough new awareness to be dangerous with it, without recognizing their own influences in convoluting it.

It is true that we nondualists are "knowers", we do know something that ~98-99% of people in Western cultures do not, namely what our "true nature" is. But after the second awakening we are led back to reality, to the world of (apparent) separateness, with an ego.

This makes sense. For me, there is no reason for greater awareness to detach from being human. It is possible to have one's head in the Heavens while one's feet are dancing on the Earth because it's all one.

Awake or not it doesn't matter much, we are only human.. and there's nothing beyond that for us, no "higher plane".. we only have each other (and our animals).

Are you suggesting that evolution STOPS with human beings?

Is it absolutely impossible to evolve past that minuscule human being time frame stage?

In fact when this is written could it be possible that we are actually in the first stages of transforming out of the human being stage and evolving into the next, and much better, stage?

Our beloved cat just passed away, she had a better life than most cats, because we cared. This world is so much suffering, but we can ease the pain. And sometimes be a little happy, genuinely.
I won't accept those who fully detach from the world, claim it's all just an illusion anyway, leave everyone else behind, throw out the best in human nature.. just for some misguided, self-serving psychosis, in the name of enlightenment..

So we can ease the pain because we care BUT I will NOT accept "others" who do what I dislike.

Does NOT accepting "others" ease the pain and show we care?