Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

[AlexW]

i've never seen the True Self speak, nor has anyone else ever seen it speak as far as i know

Exactly this is the problem/illusion.

People believe that the small/individual I, the conditioned self can speak, think, feel... but this small I is only a bundle of thoughts, thats all.
The True Self identifies with this collection of beliefs and from now on thinks there is an individual seeing, thinking, talking... but all that ever speaks, hears, thinks, smells, feels is the True Self.
There is only IT, how could anything else - like an individual self (a collection of thoughts and beliefs) - ever do any of that?

[Age]

But even if EVERY one, besides just one, says some thing is true or right, then does that in and of itself MEAN that it is ACTUALLY true or right?

i can't make sense of this sentence

If that is what you BELIEVE, then that is what it MUST BE.

i can't make sense of this sentence

For surely, you would NOT believe in some thing unless it was absolutely true and right, correct?

i can't make sense of this sentence

Let me know if I have gotten this wrong but "you" BELIEVE that the True Self can NOT speak, correct?

By belief you mean 100% certain belief, so stop insulting me

but yes, i've never seen the True Self speak, nor has anyone else ever seen it speak as far as i know

Just maybe partly the reason WHY "you" BELIEVE that what 'I' say is "crap" is because "you" can NOT make sense of what 'I' say? If "you" do NOT yet understand some thing, then OBVIOUSLY it would appear to be "crap" to "you".

[Atla]

i've never seen the True Self speak, nor has anyone else ever seen it speak as far as i know

Exactly this is the problem/illusion.

People believe that the small/individual I, the conditioned self can speak, think, feel... but this small I is only a bundle of thoughts, thats all.
The True Self identifies with this collection of beliefs and from now on thinks there is an individual seeing, thinking, talking... but all that ever speaks, hears, thinks, smells, feels is the True Self.
There is only IT, how could anything else - like an individual self (a collection of thoughts and beliefs) - ever do any of that?

To be honest AlexW I'm starting to think that you have some sort of amnesia as well..

YES as I made it clear many times, everything the small self does, is actually "done" by the "True Self". But the "True Self" isn't an entity and doesn't actually "do" anything in any meaningful sense of the word, it doesn't have the ability to identify/speak/hear/think/smell/feel in any meaningful sense of the word. The "True Self" is simply the world, reality.

But I was talking to Age who literally believes that the True Self is speaking through him like a giant being. That's a pychiatric condition.

[Atla]

But even if EVERY one, besides just one, says some thing is true or right, then does that in and of itself MEAN that it is ACTUALLY true or right?

i can't make sense of this sentence

If that is what you BELIEVE, then that is what it MUST BE.

i can't make sense of this sentence

For surely, you would NOT believe in some thing unless it was absolutely true and right, correct?

i can't make sense of this sentence

Let me know if I have gotten this wrong but "you" BELIEVE that the True Self can NOT speak, correct?

By belief you mean 100% certain belief, so stop insulting me

but yes, i've never seen the True Self speak, nor has anyone else ever seen it speak as far as i know

Just maybe partly the reason WHY "you" BELIEVE that what 'I' say is "crap" is because "you" can NOT make sense of what 'I' say? If "you" do NOT yet understand some thing, then OBVIOUSLY it would appear to be "crap" to "you".

i understand your main shtick well enough, you are the one who lacks the ability to think straight

everything the i does is actually done by the "True Self", but that doesn't mean that the "True Self" is a giant entity with a voice that truly "does" things, the "True Self" is not an entity, not a being, but you believe it is, that's why you are insane and lack understanding

you think the "True Self" is literally speaking through you but that's a psychiatric condition, not awakening

[AlexW]

To be honest AlexW I'm starting to think that you have some sort of amnesia as well..

Maybe I do... sorry if I couldn't remember.

YES as I made it clear many times, everything the small self does, is actually "done" by the "True Self". But the "True Self" isn't an entity and doesn't actually "do" anything in any meaningful sense of the word, it doesn't have the ability to identify/speak/hear/think/smell/feel in any meaningful sense of the word. The "True Self" is simply the world, reality.

Agree.

The "meaningful sense of the word" only arises from the identification with a separate doer (even he/she doesn't even truly exist)

But I was talking to Age who literally believes that the True Self is speaking through him like a giant being. That's a pychiatric condition.

Yes, didn't mean to interrupt your discussion. I don't think Age thinks the Self is a giant being (Age, correct me if I am wrong), its simply the way Age communicates that is unusual (guess it's not really possible to speak/write AS the True Self without coming across as a lunatic )

[Atla]

To be honest AlexW I'm starting to think that you have some sort of amnesia as well..

Maybe I do... sorry if I couldn't remember.

YES as I made it clear many times, everything the small self does, is actually "done" by the "True Self". But the "True Self" isn't an entity and doesn't actually "do" anything in any meaningful sense of the word, it doesn't have the ability to identify/speak/hear/think/smell/feel in any meaningful sense of the word. The "True Self" is simply the world, reality.

Agree.

The "meaningful sense of the word" only arises from the identification with a separate doer (even he/she doesn't even truly exist)

But I was talking to Age who literally believes that the True Self is speaking through him like a giant being. That's a pychiatric condition.

Yes, didn't mean to interrupt your discussion. I don't think Age thinks the Self is a giant being (Age, correct me if I am wrong), its simply the way Age communicates that is unusual (guess it's not really possible to speak/write AS the True Self without coming across as a lunatic )

No, he literally seems to believe that when he is using the word "i", "he" the human being is talking. And when the word "I" is used, the True Self is saying absolutely 100% true, right things (communicating through his human body i guess). He thinks that's how we all function and everyone else is insane for not realizing this, even though he spends his days trying to teach it to us.

[Dontaskme]

There is no known knower.

wrote DAM. Is this the same as existence precedes essence?

No not really.

The point is, you cannot know you know. To know you know would mean splitting yourself in two into knower and known.

Knower and Known are inseparably ONE in the instantaneous moment, any apparent separation is a conceptual mental construction, an illusion.

There is only KNOWING that cannot be known. . . aka Not-Knowing Knowing.

All you can know is you don't know, except what thought thinks it knows via imagination. Imagination is empty at it's core.

.

[AlexW]

No, he literally seems to believe that when he is using the word "i", "he" the human being is talking. And when the word "I" is used, the True Self is saying absolutely 100% true, right things (communicating through his human body i guess). He thinks that's how we all function and everyone else is insane for not realizing this, even though he spends his days trying to teach it to us.

Haha... if this is true then its really funny!

[Atla]

No, he literally seems to believe that when he is using the word "i", "he" the human being is talking. And when the word "I" is used, the True Self is saying absolutely 100% true, right things (communicating through his human body i guess). He thinks that's how we all function and everyone else is insane for not realizing this, even though he spends his days trying to teach it to us.

Haha... if this is true then its really funny!

It's hilarious at first but it can easily wreck one's life..

[Dontaskme]

To be honest AlexW I'm starting to think that you have some sort of amnesia as well..

Maybe I do... sorry if I couldn't remember.

YES as I made it clear many times, everything the small self does, is actually "done" by the "True Self". But the "True Self" isn't an entity and doesn't actually "do" anything in any meaningful sense of the word, it doesn't have the ability to identify/speak/hear/think/smell/feel in any meaningful sense of the word. The "True Self" is simply the world, reality.

Agree.

The "meaningful sense of the word" only arises from the identification with a separate doer (even he/she doesn't even truly exist)

But I was talking to Age who literally believes that the True Self is speaking through him like a giant being. That's a pychiatric condition.

Yes, didn't mean to interrupt your discussion. I don't think Age thinks the Self is a giant being (Age, correct me if I am wrong), its simply the way Age communicates that is unusual (guess it's not really possible to speak/write AS the True Self without coming across as a lunatic )

No, he literally seems to believe that when he is using the word "i", "he" the human being is talking. And when the word "I" is used, the True Self is saying absolutely 100% true, right things (communicating through his human body i guess). He thinks that's how we all function and everyone else is insane for not realizing this, even though he spends his days trying to teach it to us.

Leave Ken alone, he is what he is, doing the best he can, and that will never change. You have no right to judge him harshly, stop being spiteful and mean spirited just to make yourself look more superior. You once said to me to forget it that I will never get it..oh really? what the heck would you know about that? are you God speaking now?

Relative verbal expression of the ineffable Absolute...is absurd, don't blame the person ..clownshoe!...seems you revel in having a cheap laugh at another persons expense, and this just about sums you up...your the clownshoe here, no one else.

Yeah this is really hilarious isn't it, really funny...no it's NOT!!! Such is the nature of conceptual expression. All thinking and talking functions within the pairs of opposites. It is all 'wrong' and it is all 'fun' and perfect as it is.

Let it be, this is not a bitching contest.

.

[Dontaskme]

That's a pychiatric condition.

No it's not, it's a belief.



.

[Atla]

Maybe I do... sorry if I couldn't remember.


Agree.

The "meaningful sense of the word" only arises from the identification with a separate doer (even he/she doesn't even truly exist)


Yes, didn't mean to interrupt your discussion. I don't think Age thinks the Self is a giant being (Age, correct me if I am wrong), its simply the way Age communicates that is unusual (guess it's not really possible to speak/write AS the True Self without coming across as a lunatic )

No, he literally seems to believe that when he is using the word "i", "he" the human being is talking. And when the word "I" is used, the True Self is saying absolutely 100% true, right things (communicating through his human body i guess). He thinks that's how we all function and everyone else is insane for not realizing this, even though he spends his days trying to teach it to us.

Leave Ken alone, he is what he is, doing the best he can, and that will never change. You have no right to judge him harshly, stop being spiteful and mean spirited just to make yourself look more superior. You once said to me to forget it that I will never get it..oh really? what the heck would you know about that? are you God speaking now?

Relative verbal expression of the ineffable Absolute...is absurd, don't blame the person ..clownshoe!...seems you revel in having a cheap laugh at another persons expense, and this just about sums you up...your the clownshoe here, no one else.

Yeah this is really hilarious isn't it, really funny...no it's NOT!!! Such is the nature of conceptual expression. All thinking and talking functions within the pairs of opposites. It is all 'wrong' and it is all 'fun' and perfect as it is.

Let it be, this is not a bitching contest.

.

You are the mean spirited here, instead of trying to help him, you want him to remain screwed up for the rest of his life. Why are you so malignant?

[Dontaskme]

You are the mean spirited here, instead of trying to help him, you want him to remain screwed up for the rest of his life. Why are you so malignant?

You really just can't help being a nasty piece of work can you?

.

No one is screwed up here, it's just a belief.

Try unscrewing the belief then perhaps you'll see clarity.

.

[Atla]

You are the mean spirited here, instead of trying to help him, you want him to remain screwed up for the rest of his life. Why are you so malignant?

You really just can't help being a nasty piece of work can you?

.

No, YOU can't help it. You people are making things worse instead of better, and largely at your own expense. You really are just too far gone to get it, aren't you.

[Belinda]

Atla, you might consider what " a psychiatric condition" is. Pathologies are defined and evaluated according to twin criteria of morbidity and pain.

DAM's thesis is so far from being morbid that if world leaders understood it they would tend more to tolerate minorities and the poor and oppressed people.

The thesis of no duality is so far from causing pain that it may tend towards over much quiescence towards unhappiness and pain.