Do you believe or do you epoché?

[Gary Childress]

When it comes to things that seem to be beyond all reasonable ability to know or verify--for example such as whether or not there is a God or whether or not there are "dimensions" to the world and our existences which transcend our average, every day experiences--do you have a belief one way or the other on such matters or do you find yourself like me, unable to decide one way or the other and therefore generally in a perpetual state of suspended judgement or "epoché" with respect to those things?

[-1-]

in a perpetual state of suspended judgement

"Would you like to see the pope at the end of a rope?"

-- Ozzie Osbourne, "Master of Reality" with Black Sabbath (Black Sabbath - musical group of the sixties and seventies, much of their records have been burnt by Southern Baptist congregations.)

[Age]

When it comes to things that seem to be beyond all reasonable ability to know or verify--for example such as whether or not there is a God or whether or not there are "dimensions" to the world and our existences which transcend our average, every day experiences--do you have a belief one way or the other on such matters or do you find yourself like me, unable to decide one way or the other and therefore generally in a perpetual state of suspended judgement or "epoché" with respect to those things?

But NONE of those thing are beyond all reasonable ability to know or verify.

In FACT they have all already be resolved, and thus are already KNOWN.

[Gary Childress]

When it comes to things that seem to be beyond all reasonable ability to know or verify--for example such as whether or not there is a God or whether or not there are "dimensions" to the world and our existences which transcend our average, every day experiences--do you have a belief one way or the other on such matters or do you find yourself like me, unable to decide one way or the other and therefore generally in a perpetual state of suspended judgement or "epoché" with respect to those things?

But NONE of those thing are beyond all reasonable ability to know or verify.

In FACT they have all already be resolved, and thus are already KNOWN.

I'll take that as "no", you don't epoché.

[bahman]

We cannot reach any state of affair, truth for example, unless we firstly believe.

[Gary Childress]

We cannot reach any state of affair, truth for example, unless we firstly believe.

That is perhaps true with respect to any particular thing that is knowable, however, a person doesn't need to assert belief one way or the other on things that aren't knowable and aren't essential to everyday functioning. For example, I pretty much have to believe on some level that the external world exists in order to effectively survive. However, that's generally not the case with something like whether or not there is a God.

[bahman]

We cannot reach any state of affair, truth for example, unless we firstly believe.

That is true with respect to any particular thing that is knowable, however, a person doesn't need to assert belief one way or the other on things that aren't knowable and aren't essential to everyday functioning. For example, I pretty much have to believe on some level that the external world exists in order to effectively survive. However, that's generally not the case with something like whether or not there is a God.

God as a absolute being does not exist (I have an argument for that). We can however become gods (mind is eternal).

[Gary Childress]

We cannot reach any state of affair, truth for example, unless we firstly believe.

That is true with respect to any particular thing that is knowable, however, a person doesn't need to assert belief one way or the other on things that aren't knowable and aren't essential to everyday functioning. For example, I pretty much have to believe on some level that the external world exists in order to effectively survive. However, that's generally not the case with something like whether or not there is a God.

God as a absolute being does not exist (I have an argument for that). We can however become gods (mind is eternal).

What is your proof for God not existing? What is your proof for mind being eternal (by mind being eternal I assume you mean that our minds don't perish when our body does)?

[bahman]

That is true with respect to any particular thing that is knowable, however, a person doesn't need to assert belief one way or the other on things that aren't knowable and aren't essential to everyday functioning. For example, I pretty much have to believe on some level that the external world exists in order to effectively survive. However, that's generally not the case with something like whether or not there is a God.

God as a absolute being does not exist (I have an argument for that). We can however become gods (mind is eternal).

What is your proof for God not existing?

1) The reality is unbound (following Cantor theorem), the best does not exist
2) God is defined as absolute, the best
3) Therefore there is no God

What is your proof for mind being eternal (by mind being eternal I assume you mean that our minds don't perish when our body does)?

Please let's see if we can agree on the previous topic.

[Gary Childress]

God as a absolute being does not exist (I have an argument for that). We can however become gods (mind is eternal).

What is your proof for God not existing?

1) The reality is unbound (following Cantor theorem), the best does not exist
2) God is defined as absolute, the best
3) Therefore there is no God

What is your proof for mind being eternal (by mind being eternal I assume you mean that our minds don't perish when our body does)?

Please let's see if we can agree on the previous topic.

I disagree. That isn't proof that there is no God.

[bahman]

What is your proof for God not existing?

1) The reality is unbound (following Cantor theorem), the best does not exist
2) God is defined as absolute, the best
3) Therefore there is no God

What is your proof for mind being eternal (by mind being eternal I assume you mean that our minds don't perish when our body does)?

Please let's see if we can agree on the previous topic.

I disagree. That isn't proof that there is no God.

What is wrong with the argument?

[Gary Childress]

1) The reality is unbound (following Cantor theorem), the best does not exist
2) God is defined as absolute, the best
3) Therefore there is no God


Please let's see if we can agree on the previous topic.

I disagree. That isn't proof that there is no God.

What is wrong with the argument?

Too many assumptions concerning things that are beyond our ability to know with any kind of certainty.

[bahman]

I disagree. That isn't proof that there is no God.

What is wrong with the argument?

Too many assumptions concerning things that are beyond our ability to know with any kind of certainty.

(2) is definition God so we cannot exclude it. So Your only problem could be with (1). Am I right?

[Gary Childress]

What is wrong with the argument?

Too many assumptions concerning things that are beyond our ability to know with any kind of certainty.

(2) is definition God so we cannot exclude it. So Your only problem could be with (1). Am I right?

Both premises are suspect. How do you define God at all? Do you look at something with your eyes and say, "ah. Yep. That's what God is?" Even to say God is absolute, what is meant by that? Absolute what?

Suppose a burning bush materialized in front of you and said, "I'm God." By what means would you extrapolate anything from that other than you saw a burning bush which spoke and said, "I'm God". Is the burning bush God? How would you go about verifying it? And what is "God"?

[bahman]

Too many assumptions concerning things that are beyond our ability to know with any kind of certainty.

(2) is definition God so we cannot exclude it. So Your only problem could be with (1). Am I right?

Both premises are suspect. How do you define God at all? Do you look at something with your eyes and say, "ah. Yep. That's what God is?" Even to say God is absolute, what is meant by that? Absolute what?

Suppose a burning bush materialized in front of you and said, "I'm God." By what means would you extrapolate anything from that other than you saw a burning bush which spoke and said, "I'm God". Is the burning bush God? How would you go about verifying it? And what is "God"?

By Absolute I mean the best.