What is Belief?

[Veritas Aequitas]

WHY do ONLY human beings, supposedly, NEED to 'believe', for their survival, IF other animals do NOT?

I have also explained this many times.
What is believed involved a complex process say X from lower to middle to higher brain.
In the perspective of beliefs, animals up to the higher primates share 90% of process X.
It is just that non-humans do not have the self-awareness of their beliefs as a concept of beliefs for deliberate rationalization.

WHAT???

You really do BELIEVE that you really do KNOW what you are talking about, am I right veritas?

Crocodiles have survived millions of years. Do they have BELIEFS?

Are you aware that humans evolved from other things, going back BEFORE even animals existed at all?
If yes, then great. WHERE did this BELIEF that human beings NEED beliefs for their survival come from?
Human beings are here now, and surviving right?
If yes, then great.
Human beings, like ALL the other things that have came into existence and have survived up to now, when this is written.
Therefore, FOR SURVIVAL 'beliefs', themselves, are NOT necessary.

(As for what beliefs are helpful for, is another completely different issue. What we have been discussing here is; if beliefs are inherent and a necessity for survival?)

Constructing another strawman.
Note humans can still survive when they are in a coma or asleep. So I did not mean humans and animals cannot survive without beliefs.

What I stated was beliefs facilitate survival of humans and certain animals. It is obvious I do not mean one-cell animals, viruses and the likes having beliefs.

As I had stated the belief faculty of a human is a complex system and process, say X where a human sense of self-awareness is a feature. This require at least the the lower brain, the middle brain and some basic reasoning capabilities in a cortical brain.
Thus animals who has the same mental activities with up to 50% of X can be considered to have an inherent belief system. I have given examples.

My point is;
Beliefs are inherent within all human beings to facilitate survival as a normal human being.
This is in contrast to your "I do not have any belief" which is very a very stupid view.

Are you at all aware there is NOT even one of you human beings who is self aware, yet?

Unless of course you KNOW of one that can answer the question; Who am 'I'? properly and correctly.

This is from your delusion in la la land.

[Age]

Note in general philosophy,



The point is there are beliefs [crude] prior to any inferences process and there are beliefs after inferences [convictions or justified true beliefs].

My point IS: OF COURSE there ARE beliefs prior to and after inferences, in some people.
My OTHER point IS: There does NOT have to be.

A toddler will form beliefs that a stove is hot more often from the warnings from trusted parents and other humans rather than from direct painful experiences [rarely].

Are you actually serious, or joking, here?

How many actual children have NOT, and do NOT, touch something hot, including even fire itself, even AFTER being told; "Do NOT touch. It is hot"?

The same applies with adults and a sign with "WET PAINT" written on it.

How many actual adults have NOT, and do NOT, touch something wet, including even paint itself, even AFTER being told; "Do NOT touch. WET PAINT"?

YOUR confirmation biases are really working overtime on this one.

Your above is a strawman.
My point with Walker was the inherent tendency of all humans to believe.
Walker insisted the child not touching a hot stove is based on inference.
My argument is, in the case of a child not touching a hot stove is based on belief not inference.
It is not about a child despite warnings will still touch a hot stove which could be due to some other psychological problems due to some abnormalities.

Well it was you who stated that young children form beliefs MORE from warnings from others than that do from direct painful experience. This was the ONLY part that I was replying to. I thought that was clearly obvious, from my writings.

I did NOT and would NOT ever dispute human beings form beliefs. I have actually continually said they do, and that YOU, veritas, is living proof of this FACT.

I have only disputed that beliefs are necessary for continued survival, and, I have only stated that I do NOT have any beliefs.

If I am continually surviving and I do NOT have any beliefs, then I am living proof that BELIEFS are NOT necessary.

I can and WILL also SHOW just HOW beliefs are an actual hindrance to human beings well being, and, I can and WILL also HOW beliefs have been a major cause of human beings demise.

[Age]

WHY do ONLY human beings, supposedly, NEED to 'believe', for their survival, IF other animals do NOT?

I have also explained this many times.
What is believed involved a complex process say X from lower to middle to higher brain.
In the perspective of beliefs, animals up to the higher primates share 90% of process X.
It is just that non-humans do not have the self-awareness of their beliefs as a concept of beliefs for deliberate rationalization.

WHAT???

You really do BELIEVE that you really do KNOW what you are talking about, am I right veritas?

Crocodiles have survived millions of years. Do they have BELIEFS?

Are you aware that humans evolved from other things, going back BEFORE even animals existed at all?
If yes, then great. WHERE did this BELIEF that human beings NEED beliefs for their survival come from?
Human beings are here now, and surviving right?
If yes, then great.
Human beings, like ALL the other things that have came into existence and have survived up to now, when this is written.
Therefore, FOR SURVIVAL 'beliefs', themselves, are NOT necessary.

(As for what beliefs are helpful for, is another completely different issue. What we have been discussing here is; if beliefs are inherent and a necessity for survival?)

Constructing another strawman.
Note humans can still survive when they are in a coma or asleep. So I did not mean humans and animals cannot survive without beliefs.

Well say what you MEAN. Do NOT say what you do NOT mean.

That is ALL I have been pointing out. Babies, sleeping human beings, human beings at first stages of evolution MAY NOT have BELIEFS. I have been asking you to SHOW us WHERE, WHEN, and WHAT the BELIEFS ARE that you say ALL human beings MUST HAVE beliefs for their survival.

What I stated was beliefs facilitate survival of humans and certain animals.

Yes I KNOW what you have stated. You repeat yourself a LOT.

WHICH 'certain animals' are you talking about?
WHY only some 'certain animals'? And,
WHY do only human beings and some certain animals NEED beliefs to facilitate survival?

It is obvious I do not mean one-cell animals, viruses and the likes having beliefs.

Well if YOU have evolved from those, then WHEN, in evolution, did it, supposedly, become NECESSARY for survival?

As I had stated the belief faculty of a human is a complex system and process,

And, as I have stated the belief faculty of a human being is a very SIMPLE system, and a very EASY one to UNDERSTAND. I have explained just HOW simple and easy it really IS, already.

You however do NOT have to explain any thing because you use the old, human being, trick of "I know how it works" but it is "to hard and complex" to explain. By stating that some thing is a complex system and process directly and indirectly MEANS that you have NO idea whatsoever.

say X where a human sense of self-awareness is a feature. This require at least the the lower brain, the middle brain and some basic reasoning capabilities in a cortical brain.

Just using the word 'brain' in sentences does NOT mean that you KNOW what you are talking about. In fact, some might argue the very opposite is True.

Thus animals who has the same mental activities with up to 50% of X can be considered to have an inherent belief system. I have given examples.

LOL

My point is;
Beliefs are inherent within all human beings to facilitate survival as a normal human being.

"Normal" human being. LOL LOL LOL

You, veritas, really BELIEVE that you are "normal" and that "other's" have psychological problems due to their abnormalities.

You TRY so hard to appear as some one who is "smart" and "normal", and this really makes me laugh a lot. The harder you TRY the more I am laughing here.

I am NOT laughing AT you. I am laughing AT the irony of ALL of this. The very THING that you are TRYING TO argue and fight for is the very same THING that is making you do what you are doing here, and thus making you look the way that you are now.

This is in contrast to your "I do not have any belief" which is very a very stupid view.

If It is a stupid view, then that is WHAT IT IS, and, WHAT I HAVE.

I neither care nor am concerned at all.

Are you at all aware there is NOT even one of you human beings who is self aware, yet?

Unless of course you KNOW of one that can answer the question; Who am 'I'? properly and correctly.

This is from your delusion in la la land.

What is from my "delusion"?

In case you are unaware; that was a question asked, to you, for an answer.

What is with you, human beings, when a question is asked you BELIEVE that some thing is being said or meant?

I asked a question. Either you can or can not answer it.

Here watch; Do you KNOW of any human being that can answer the question: Who am 'I'?

If you do KNOW, then you say "Yes". And,
If you do NOT know, then you say "No".

It is like I have to SPELL every thing out for you, human beings.

[Logik]

Name one thing that I believe?

I already did. Do you want me to repeat myself?

You believe that "you neither believe nor disbelieve any thing."

[Age]

Name one thing that I believe?

I already did. Do you want me to repeat myself?

But I do NOT believe that.

You just named one thing that YOU BELIEVED is true. You have NOT yet named one that I actually believe.

You believe that "you neither believe nor disbelieve any thing."

But I do NOT believe that.

Unless of course you can prove that I believe that.

Can you prove that I believe THAT what you believe is True?

I can just state what I do without having to believe it.

[Logik]

Name one thing that I believe?

I already did. Do you want me to repeat myself?

But I do NOT believe that.

You just named one thing that YOU BELIEVED is true. You have NOT yet named one that I actually believe.

You believe that "you neither believe nor disbelieve any thing."

But I do NOT believe that.

Unless of course you can prove that I believe that.

Can you prove that I believe THAT what you believe is True?

I can just state what I do without having to believe it.

Oh. My bad. So you lied when you said it?

I am only repeating your words, you know...

[Age]

I already did. Do you want me to repeat myself?

But I do NOT believe that.

You just named one thing that YOU BELIEVED is true. You have NOT yet named one that I actually believe.

You believe that "you neither believe nor disbelieve any thing."

But I do NOT believe that.

Unless of course you can prove that I believe that.

Can you prove that I believe THAT what you believe is True?

I can just state what I do without having to believe it.

Oh. My bad. So you lied when you said it?

When I said WHAT?

When do you think/believe I lied?

I am only repeating your words, you know...

No I do NOT know.

What words are you talking about?

I have NO idea what you are talking about.

Or, are you under some sort of illusion that a person HAS TO 'believe' whatever they say?

If that is not what you are talking about, then I am back to having NO idea.

[AlexW]

I have a question, if I may:
Who (or what) is it that has (or doesn't have) a belief?

[Walker]

I have a question, if I may:
Who (or what) is it that has (or doesn't have) a belief?

Awareness.

And who has awareness, you may ask?

If you do, the question doesn’t fit the answer.

The answer which is, awareness has form.

[AlexW]

Awareness.

Awareness can not have beliefs.
Only a thought-up you can "have" beliefs.

And who has awareness, you may ask?

If you do, the question doesn’t fit the answer.

Agree - "you" cannot "have" awareness. I/you is a thought - a thought cannot have awareness, it is known "in" awareness.

The answer which is, awareness has form.

Can you please elaborate?

[Age]

I have a question, if I may:
Who (or what) is it that has (or doesn't have) a belief?

A belief comes from within a human body.

There actually is no who (nor no what) that HAS a belief.

A 'belief' is just a part of thoughts.

'Thoughts' are made up of many different things, like; opinions, views, assumptions, ideas, interpretations, conclusions, as well as 'beliefs' to name but just a few.

An individual 'person' is made up of the thought, (and the emotion), within an individual human body. This 'person' is the 'being' in 'human being'.

This 'person' IS whatever 'thought' (and/or emotion) that is within a human body at any given time.

So, it is not a case of who (or what) is it that "has" (or "does not have") a belief. If a belief is existing within a human body, then that is who that person is. And, what this person is, is thought/emotion.

The very reason people argue/fight so strongly for the BELIEFS, within that body, is because they are, literally, fighting for their own existence.

[AlexW]

There actually is no who (nor no what) that HAS a belief.

Agree

The very reason people argue/fight so strongly for the BELIEFS, within that body, is because they are, literally, fighting for their own existence.

Exactly - this is also why I asked the question... to point out that there is no one (no separate entity) that has a belief - that the entity itself is not more than a belief. Can a belief have a belief? Apparently many...

[Walker]

Can you please elaborate?

Not when brevity says it all.

Specific questions are evidence of comprehension level and dialogue path.

[Logik]

But I do NOT believe that.

You just named one thing that YOU BELIEVED is true. You have NOT yet named one that I actually believe.




But I do NOT believe that.

Unless of course you can prove that I believe that.

Can you prove that I believe THAT what you believe is True?

I can just state what I do without having to believe it.

Oh. My bad. So you lied when you said it?

When I said WHAT?

When do you think/believe I lied?

I am only repeating your words, you know...

No I do NOT know.

What words are you talking about?

I have NO idea what you are talking about.

Or, are you under some sort of illusion that a person HAS TO 'believe' whatever they say?

If that is not what you are talking about, then I am back to having NO idea.

You said that you neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

You don’t have to believe whatever you say.

So I guess if you don’t believe the above thing you said then you disbelieve it?

[Age]

Oh. My bad. So you lied when you said it?

When I said WHAT?

When do you think/believe I lied?

I am only repeating your words, you know...

No I do NOT know.

What words are you talking about?

I have NO idea what you are talking about.

Or, are you under some sort of illusion that a person HAS TO 'believe' whatever they say?

If that is not what you are talking about, then I am back to having NO idea.

You said that you neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

You don’t have to believe whatever you say.

So I guess if you don’t believe the above thing you said then you disbelieve it?

My answer is NO.

To me there is NO necessity for one to either believe or disbelieve what they, themselves, say. To me there are other options, like; just remaining always OPEN instead.

Do you believe that one HAS TO either believe or disbelieve EVERY thing what they, themselves, say?