Universe can't be infinite.

[attofishpi]

Sub atomic matter - beyond my consciousness that relays to said consciousness information about the external substance to said consciousness, that which pertains to the universe.

So atomic matter is "Sweet FA" ?

No, you stated "Suppose that the universe didn't exist. What would you observe then?

I replied Sweet Fuck All (Sweet FA) - I never said the universe didn't exist - that's your side dude. If it didn't somehow I feel rather strongly that this debate would not occur

[TimeSeeker]

No, you stated "Suppose that the universe didn't exist. What would you observe then?

I replied Sweet Fuck All (Sweet FA) - I never said the universe didn't exist - that's your side dude. If it didn't somehow I feel rather strongly that this debate would not occur

Look. I am just trying to imagine the distinction you have drawn.

A universe that exists vs a universe that doesn't exist. If you can't describe a non-existing universe then you've drawn a distinction without a difference.

"The universe exists" is a tautology.

It says nothing more about "The universe" than the phrase "The Universe" itself!

It adds nothing to the conversation except confusion.

I can't even fathom myself any claims of "existence" or "non-existence" - but since you insist that it exists, i might as well take the counter-position.

[attofishpi]

No, you stated "Suppose that the universe didn't exist. What would you observe then?

I replied Sweet Fuck All (Sweet FA) - I never said the universe didn't exist - that's your side dude. If it didn't somehow I feel rather strongly that this debate would not occur

Look. I am just trying to imagine the distinction you have drawn.

A universe that exists vs a universe that doesn't exist. If you can't describe a non-existing universe than you've drawn a distinction without a difference.

"The universe exists" is a tautology.

Look. I am just making the point, that if there is not a universe, I wouldn't be here drinking beer at 5am with some dude on the other side of a planet called 'Earth'....comprehend?

[TimeSeeker]

Look. I am just making the point, that if there is not a universe, I wouldn't be here drinking beer at 5am with some dude on the other side of a planet called 'Earth'....comprehend?

And I am making a point that it's a meaningless claim.

What if this universe doesn't exist. And yet - here you are. Drinking a beer, on Earth, talking to me.
That would be pretty fucking weird, but whatever! You trust your own experiences, do you not?!?

So what if we are in the non-existing universe right now. How would you tell?

[attofishpi]

Look. I am just making the point, that if there is not a universe, I wouldn't be here drinking beer at 5am with some dude on the other side of a planet called 'Earth'....comprehend?

And I am making a point that it's a meaningless claim.

What if this universe doesn't exist. And yet - here you are. Drinking a beer, on Earth, talking to me.
That would be pretty fucking weird, but whatever! You trust your own experiences, do you not?!?

So what if we are in the non-existing universe right now. How would you tell?

Look I can taught u a lot - eat tautology for T ...but we both MUST agree, no universe, no conversation....I kind of can tell ...just from that.

[TimeSeeker]

Look I can taught u a lot - eat tautology for T ...but we both MUST agree, no universe, no conversation....I kind of can tell ...just from that.

Well no, we can't agree on that! Because this is more fundamental than language.

You claimed that "if the universe did not exist then we would not be having a conversation".

So if this were a non-existing universe and despite that we are having a conversation then this would prove your claim incorrect. Would it not?

This is how falsification works after all!

[attofishpi]

Look I can taught u a lot - eat tautology for T ...but we both MUST agree, no universe, no conversation....I kind of can tell ...just from that.

Well no, we can't agree on that! Because this is more fundamental than language.

You claimed that "if the universe did not exist then we would not be having a conversation".

And I fuckin stand by it, like every rational individual that doesn't attempt to wank deeper than they actually are.

So if this were a non-existing universe and we are having a conversation then this would prove your claim incorrect. Would it not?

No. Dammit im going to have to get nasty now. You idiot - if there isn't a universe then none of this has, or ever will, happen.

What exactly do you propose my claim to be exactly?

[TimeSeeker]

No. Dammit im going to have to get nasty now. You idiot - if there isn't a universe then none of this has, or ever will, happen.

OK, but IF there was no universe AND this was still happening THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

I am trying to establish if you care about falsification.

[attofishpi]

No. Dammit im going to have to get nasty now. You idiot - if there isn't a universe then none of this has, or ever will, happen.

OK, but IF there was no universe AND this was still happening THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

NO. By the simple fact that a universe is required for beings to exist!!!!!

[TimeSeeker]

No. Dammit im going to have to get nasty now. You idiot - if there isn't a universe then none of this has, or ever will, happen.

OK, but IF there was no universe AND this was still happening THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

NO. By the simple fact that a universe is required for beings to exist!!!!!

OK, but IF there was no universe AND some beings existed THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

[attofishpi]

OK, but IF there was no universe AND this was still happening THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

NO. By the simple fact that a universe is required for beings to exist!!!!!

OK, but IF there was no universe AND some beings existed THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

Hahah...and these 'beings' with their cognition would not concede that there is a universe?

[TimeSeeker]

NO. By the simple fact that a universe is required for beings to exist!!!!!

OK, but IF there was no universe AND some beings existed THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

Hahah...and these 'beings' with their cognition would not concede that there is a universe?

I don't think it matters. I am trying to establish your criteria for what construes evidence for and against a claim.

So far you don't seem to care about falsification much. Even in principle.

[attofishpi]

OK, but IF there was no universe AND some beings existed THEN you would concede that you are wrong.

Yes?

Hahah...and these 'beings' with their cognition would not concede that there is a universe?

I don't think it matters. I am trying to establish your criteria for what construes evidence for and against a claim.

So far you don't seem to care about falsification much. Even in principle.

No. You seem to be attempting to revert cognition of a universe to something, indeed some entity that cannot constitute their own existence within the realm of something external to themselves - a universe.

[TimeSeeker]

No. You seem to be attempting to revert cognition of a universe to something, indeed some entity that cannot constitute their own existence within the realm of something external to themselves - a universe.

Look. The scientific method is not perfect, but it's useful.

If you reject falsification - then we have nothing further to discuss
You are dogmatic - so be it.

I adhere to the principle of maximum ignorance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle ... um_entropy

[attofishpi]

No. You seem to be attempting to revert cognition of a universe to something, indeed some entity that cannot constitute their own existence within the realm of something external to themselves - a universe.

Look. The scientific method is not perfect, but it's useful.

If you reject falsification - then we have nothing further to discuss

I adhere to the principle of maximum ignorance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle ... um_entropy

Hey, wank on about stuff you can't beat a layman at and dismiss what I have to say, post links cos u cant think for yourself and reason on this little debate we are having...and remember I am doing you the courtesy of sitting at my compoooter at 5.30am for the (kicks) come on, you're better than that, i've got a new found respect for you...but don't sod me off because you have a losing argument.