TimeSeeker wrote:
Nobody has ever seen energy . Nobody can test or falsify energy
And if you think you can - go right ahead and show me an example of energy
Energy cannot be seen but its effects can be demonstrated
Heat energy is demonstrated when water evaporates into steam
Magnetic energy is demonstrated when a compass needle moves
Electrical energy is demonstrated when lightning strikes the ground
Gravitational energy is demonstrated when an apple falls from a tree
Kinetic energy is demonstrated when a pendulum swings from side to side
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:13 pm
Energy cannot be seen but its effects can be demonstrated
Sure. The EFFECTS of energy can be demonstrated. We call those effects "phenomena".
God cannot be seen either but its effects can demonstrated too. We call this phenomenon The Universe.
phenomenon Noun. A fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen, especially one whose cause or explanation is in question.
Energy is in question. Energy is a phenomenon.
God is in question. God is a phenomenon.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:13 pm
Heat energy is demonstrated CAUSE -> when water evaporates into steam EFFECT
Magnetic energy is demonstrated CAUSE -> when a compass needle moves EFFECT
Electrical energy is demonstrated CAUSE -> when lightning strikes the ground EFFECT
Gravitational energy is demonstrated CAUSE -> when an apple falls from a tree EFFECT
Kinetic energy is demonstrated CAUSE -> when a pendulum swings from side to side EFFECT
God is demonstrated CAUSE -> when The Universe exists EFFECT
TimeSeeker wrote:
A fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen especially one whose cause or explanation is in question
God being the cause of the Universe is the least plausible explanation for its existence among all possible ones
We do not even know when the Universe began or if it began at all so mention of God is quite simply premature
TimeSeeker wrote:
A fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen especially one whose cause or explanation is in question
God being the cause of the Universe is the least plausible explanation for its existence among all possible ones
I am not concerned with what name you give to the cause of The Universe (God or Quantum Fluctuations). I am concerned with whether the universe HAS a cause. Any claim thereafter is equivocation.
Does the universe have a cause? I expect a yes or no answer. I do not expect any detailed description of that cause, let alone giving it a name.
The same can be said for energy. Like I said. I am not concerned with 'god' or 'energy'. I am concerned with your commitment to logical consistency. And your attempts to rationalise the cause of mass while rejecting the cause of the universe.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:32 pm
We do not even know when the Universe began or if it began at all so mention of God is quite simply premature
Naturally. We do not know if mass has a cause either. To mention 'energy' is simply premature.
TimeSeeker wrote:
I am not concerned with what name you give to the cause of The Universe ( God or Quantum Fluctuations )
I am concerned with whether the universe HAS a cause . Any claim thereafter is equivocation
Does the universe have a cause ? I expect a yes or no answer . I do not expect any detailed description of that cause let alone giving it a name
So stop calling it God if the name does not matter because that particular name really confuses the issue
Why demand a yes or no answer when I have absolutely no idea whether or not the Universe has a cause
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:48 pm
So stop calling it God if the name does not matter because that particular name really confuses the issue
When did you get to decide what words I must use to express my thoughts? Do you even care about free speech and free thought or are you just another anti-freedom tyrant?
Do you object this vehemently to any other English synonyms?
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:48 pm
Why demand a yes or no answer when I have absolutely no idea whether or not the Universe has a cause
This is a nonsensical statement. I ask the question SO that I can get an answer.
Am I not allowed to ASK if The Universe has a cause?
If the answer is 'Yes' then I guess we can call that cause 'God'.
If the answer is 'No' then why should mass have a cause and why call it 'energy'?
TimeSeeker wrote:
So if I dont know what word YOU PREFER to use for the cause of the universe I must remain silent now
You may use whatever words you want but when one of them is causing confusion it might be a good idea to
stop using that word unless of course the purpose of it is to actually cause confusion which I dont think it is
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:19 pm
You may use whatever words you want but when one of them is causing confusion it might be a good idea to
stop using that word unless of course the purpose of it is to actually cause confusion which I dont think it is
OK. I'll stop using the word "God".
Tell me what your preferred word is for "the cause of everything that exists" so I can use that word instead?
TimeSeeker wrote:
Tell me what your preferred word is for the cause of everything that exists so I can use that word instead
I dont have a preferred word and no such word exists anyway as far as I know
I also have zero intention of telling anyone how to think or what to write here or anywhere else
You call it absolutely anything you want or nothing at all because either way I really do not care
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:38 pm
I dont have a preferred word and no such word exists anyway as far as I know
I also have zero intention of telling anyone how to think or what to write here or anywhere else
You call it absolutely anything you want or nothing at all because either way I really do not care
Well that is ironic. The word exists, but you asked me to stop using it, while at the same time you offered no alternative!
So your INTENTION doesn't matter because if I COMPLY with your request (stop using that word because it causes confusion) then I am silenced.
By virtue of being respectful of your wishes you have silenced me. Tyrant!
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:50 pm
I cannot silence your thoughts or words only you can do this
You are therefore responsible for your self censoring not me
I could not care less what you say or how you say it as that is beyond my jurisdiction
Naturally. But when you asked me to "stop using that word" you shift the decision-making burden (and the cost of uncertainty and consequences) onto me.
I can ignore your wishes and wave the rebellious "fuck you" banner, but that would probably upset you.
Or I can respect your wishes.
You made an effort to ask me to stop using a word so it must really bother you. I am happy to respect your wishes (reduce confusion, improve communication) if you give me a better word.
You yourself admitted that you don't have one - so why do you object to my word?
TimeSeeker wrote:
when you ask me to stop using that word you shift the decision making burden onto me
I can ignore your wishes but that would probably upset you or I can respect your wishes
I am happy to respect your wishes ( reduce confusion improve communication ) if you give me a better word
You yourself admitted that you dont have one - so why do you object to my word
I am seriously worried that you want to respect my wishes especially as it contradicts what you said before
Say what you want and let it be and stop being concerned about whether I will like it as it does not matter
