The Neural Basis of NonDuality

[TimeSeeker]

There is no angle here, genius.

Listen, genius. Any arc of a circle (PERIOD OF TIME) has an angle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian

[Belinda]

TimeSeeker wrote:

No. Atla is claiming that time IS a circle/ring.

Then is Atla talking the language of measurement or the language of metaphor?

[TimeSeeker]

Then is Atla talking the language of measurement or the language of metaphor?

I don't know what a metaphoric circle is.

[Atla]

There is no angle here, genius.

Listen, genius. Any arc of a circle (PERIOD OF TIME) has an angle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian

Please, just, for one brief moment, try to think. There isn't one more dimension added here, where circular time could have an angle. We are talking about the fucking universe.

[Belinda]

TimeSeeker, why not try looking at a picture of the ourobouros?

I don't know what a metaphoric circle is.

Or, alternatively, pretend for the sake of the image that the perfect circumference of a circle exists?

[TimeSeeker]

TimeSeeker, why not try looking at a picture of the ourobouros?

I don't know what a metaphoric circle is.

That is not a circle. That is recursion. I am OK with recursion. Recursion is computation.

[Belinda]

Recursion. TimeSeeker, I do like to learn the names of ideas!

Please see Escher: "Print Gallery". I cannot copy and paste it or I would do so.

[TimeSeeker]

Please, just, for one brief moment, try to think. There isn't one more dimension added here, where circular time could have an angle. We are talking about the fucking universe.

I am thinking! Maybe you need to reconsider your proposition?

A circle is an Euclidian shape - it is 2-dimensional BY DEFINITION. If it exists in 3 dimensions then it's a sphere. if it exists in N dimensions then it's an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-sphere

A zero-dimensional space is a point not a circle! So this shape in your head that you are calling a "circle" how many dimensions does it have?

Not to mention that we need extra dimensions for matter, but whatever...

I asked you if you mean one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle

[Atla]

Please, just, for one brief moment, try to think. There isn't one more dimension added here, where circular time could have an angle. We are talking about the fucking universe.

I am thinking! Maybe you need to reconsider your proposition?

A circle is an Euclidian shape - it is 2-dimensional BY DEFINITION. If it exists in 3 dimensions then it's a sphere. if it exists in N dimensions then it's an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-sphere

A zero-dimensional space is a point not a circle! So this shape in your head that you are calling a "circle" how many dimensions does it have?

Not to mention that we need extra dimensions for matter, but whatever...

I asked you if you mean one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle

There is no shape in my head other than a pointer, a tool. We are talking about the nature of the dimensions of the universe.

[TimeSeeker]

There is no shape in my head other than a pointer, a tool. We are talking about the nature of the dimensions of the universe.

Well, you will be happy to know that constructive mathematics has all of the tools you need to describe your idea!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology

In mathematics, topology (from the Greek τόπος, place, and λόγος, study) is concerned with the properties of space that are preserved under continuous deformations, such as stretching, twisting, crumpling and bending, but not tearing or gluing.

An n-dimensional topological space is a space (not necessarily Euclidean) with certain properties of connectedness and compactness.

[Atla]

There is no shape in my head other than a pointer, a tool. We are talking about the nature of the dimensions of the universe.

Well, you will be happy to know that constructive mathematics has all of the tools you need to describe your idea!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology

In mathematics, topology (from the Greek τόπος, place, and λόγος, study) is concerned with the properties of space that are preserved under continuous deformations, such as stretching, twisting, crumpling and bending, but not tearing or gluing.

An n-dimensional topological space is a space (not necessarily Euclidean) with certain properties of connectedness and compactness.

Either you understand that the universe can be boundless but finite, in all 4 dimensions of spacetime, or you don't.

[TimeSeeker]

Recursion. TimeSeeker, I do like to learn the names of ideas!

Please see Escher: "Print Gallery". I cannot copy and paste it or I would do so.

Ohhh! I love Escher's work! Also, Have you read Godel, Escher, Bach?

And as a final point. If you like the symbol of the Ouroboros this is its theoretical counterpart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RE_(complexity)

[TimeSeeker]

Either you understand that the universe can be boundless but finite, in all 4 dimensions of spacetime, or you don't.

You are right. I don't understand what "boundless but finite" means. That's an oxymoron.

I do understand that a Kleinbottle fits that description in 4-dimensional space.

[Atla]

Either you understand that the universe can be boundless but finite, in all 4 dimensions of spacetime, or you don't.

You are right. I don't understand what "boundless but finite" means. That's an oxymoron.

I do understand that a Kleinbottle fits that description in 4-dimensional space.

Then work on it. The "boundless but finite" idea is becoming quite mainstream in physics.

[Belinda]

Having spent a majority of my working life in computer science fields, I am wondering about recursiveness in writing short poems.

This is not the recursive process in writing/review/editing, but, using an element of language that implies a looped logic recursively folding into itself until a finality. That is to say, for example, the three ways a person may be perceived, what a person believes of themself, what another believes, and what a person, themself, believes another believes of themself... the recursive funciton is the act of believing.

An example in short poetry is the butterfly dream... a man dreams of a being a butterfly dreaming of being a man.

Of course, the style limiting the use of personification (that is to say, the "me" factor) may apply which restricts or confines certain ideas used for the tenets/guides outlined by Bashou near the end of his life (as I understand it, subtance over style and produndity over wittiness). Yet, there should be examples in Nature that lend to a natural recursiveness such as any procreative activity or objects (sans the human emotional projection), for simple example, mating not loving.

Exploring these aspects in Nature, more or less "as a matter of fact" opens a poem to many facets of feelings from the reader, the transform being fact to feeling (as some like to say, "show not tell").

Some examples of this recursiveness:

a drop of dew (that 180 degree fisheye reflection capturing that "world" around it) reflecting within that world dewdrops

flower scent... (undetectable by the flower, yet, integral to it's natural procreation and symbiosis through interaction with certain insects)

leaf color... (a byproduct of certain sugar production caused by light and temperature variation in a seasonal cycle, also, not detectable by the trees or bushes)

These objects (to mention just a few) are part of recursive processes occuring naturally on our planet, patterns that fold into themselves untill that which triggers the process ends.

Well, perhaps, my explanation of "recursiveness" is flawed (as I am not sure completely), but, I've started to think more about the idea.

I will attempt three examples using the above objects:

a drop of dew
within drops of dew...
sunrises

flower scent
in the wind lift of wings...
flower sent

red again
the leaf color...
fades


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